blowout Posted September 26, 2002 Posted September 26, 2002 ...........obviously, restoration is more prevalent in gold books, but really applies to all ages of books..............(even moderns??? )
murph0 Posted September 26, 2002 Posted September 26, 2002 There's been a multitude of topics regarding detecting restoration please run a search on it. Brian
aardvark88 Posted September 27, 2002 Posted September 27, 2002 Even if u had a portable black light, u won't be able to catch all the color touches or reinforcement that cgc can w/ their black light scan bed. flugazi 1
blowout Posted September 27, 2002 Author Posted September 27, 2002 ..........fantastic, that's really helpful info povertyrow.............. ......thats actually the first time i've heard about a way to detect trimming that didn't involve measuring the comic (which seems unreliable)............... ........i will test it on two books i have that i suspect might be trimmed............
NativeNewYorker Posted September 27, 2002 Posted September 27, 2002 What triangle are you referring to? Ted
fantastic_four Posted September 28, 2002 Posted September 28, 2002 A good comparison I've found is to think about a Sunday edition newspaper. When you look at a Sunday paper, the interior sections stick out up top in a similar but more exaggerated way than the inner wraps on a comic stick out on the side. Great info, povertyrow! Where'd you learn so much about the topic, just by chatting with other collectors? I strongly believe that if someone would get an EXTREMELY detailed guide to restoration detection out, a lot of the mistaken impressions that people have about restoration would start to go away. Restoration has gotten a bad reputation over the last 5-10 years because of all the slight-restoring greedy insufficiently_thoughtful_persons trying to make 8.0 to 9.0 comics look like 9.4 to 9.8 without disclosing the work having been done. Once high-grade collectors are able to assess that kind of work having been done, I strongly feel that the market for restored comics will begin to recover a bit. In today's market, 99.5% of collectors are clueless about restoration detection. And quite often the way they discover the need for it is when they learn that a comic they shelled out Overstreet NM or better money for is really only worth half of what they paid! Steve Borock said that the majority of the restoration they see is of the slight variety on books that didn't need it in the first place. That kind of work is almost ALWAYS done out of greed by people who rely upon the ignorance of others. Once the mass ignorance of restoration detection starts to go away, the negative feelings about restoration hopefully will also. I've talked with Tracey Heft and Matt Nelson about educating others about restoration detection, and they both generally agree...they both said they wanted to contribute to the upcoming Overstreet Grading Guide revision. And I PLEADED with Blumberg to allow and encourage those guys to include VERY detailed info about it. The sooner that happens, the sooner restored comics will lose their bad rep!
fantastic_four Posted September 28, 2002 Posted September 28, 2002 Do you remember the names and authors or publishers of the books on restoring/conserving paper that you read?
Joanna Posted October 8, 2002 Posted October 8, 2002 I'm still reading, pov, but when I finished the tear section, I had to recheck that Brave and Bold. I now think I know what it is! I'm almost certain it's a fold. A defect in manufacturing kind of thing. There is an identical looking thing on the back cover -- same place, same length -- but neither had any appearance or feel of glue. (the special kinds of restoration were too advanced for what this looked like). Yet there appeared to be a definite line disecting an area that had absolutely no separation. When I realized there was no glue, I looked again, and I'm now certain the cover stock got folded in production, with maybe a millimeter of actual fold, but it's enough to make it appear like a sealed tear, and to feel a raised area on both sides of the front and back cover. It's definitely not a tear seal. Thank you so much! I'm now going to read about cleaning. -- Joanna
Joanna Posted October 8, 2002 Posted October 8, 2002 Wow, all I can say is no wonder CGC is finding restoration when most people can't. It now makes me wonder: Meth is being characterized as "Mr. Restoration" yet how is he supposed to be able to spot it? Why is he more liable than any other seller? Lots of people sell books here, but if you're selling CGC, you don't have to worry. It's the raw booksellers that have the potential to be 'caught' selling restored books, yet if they're like all but 2% of comics people (it appears), then they wouldn't recognize it either. IOW, someone sold me every book I own. Now, take out the books I bought as a kid and have owned since then, and I still have thousands of books. Not once did any seller tell me a book telling me it was restored. Never. And yet, I wonder how true that is? Not with my beat-up silver stuff -- obviously unrestored (or the restorer was as good at his job as that DD 9.8 guy is at grading). But my golden age books -- I paid a lot of money for those. And I have a doubt or two about some. I'm going to use your post as a guide and relook at several of them. -- Joanna
Guest Posted October 8, 2002 Posted October 8, 2002 Not only that Joanna, but now I'm going to be accused of silicon film repairs, tear repairs with cellular patches, k-narf rafflings with zorfed-end wraps over easy and swab swibbling endemetriol alterations as well as the more commonly known color touch with all the trimmings!!
Joanna Posted October 8, 2002 Posted October 8, 2002 Now Meth, be honest -- you've been swibbling your zorf-ends all over the place! I've seen the pictures. -- Joanna Artifiction 1
Guest Posted October 8, 2002 Posted October 8, 2002 I can swibble a zorf-end in three slanks flat without even as much as using a kletching pail (almost always used in conjuction with, and as an absolute, recommended necessity for swibbling in temperate climates, by expert swibblers)! Pretty impressive, if I DO say so myself and.....HEY! Wait a minute......it's 5:05 AM EST!!! What are WE doing up while the Board sleeps? Are you up, plotting the downfall of the hobby as well?? Just start swibbling the zorf-ends undetectably like I do and the end of all creation, let alone the end of the hobby, will soon be at hand! Eventually, as your confidence builds, you won't even bother to keep kletching pails around the house!
Guest Posted October 8, 2002 Posted October 8, 2002 There's a section on dry-cleaning RATS?? Now yer' talking. Clue me in! I always wished I could do something about those unsanitary little ghetto pets. Oh BOY!!!
fantastic_four Posted October 8, 2002 Posted October 8, 2002 The reason Meth is being held responsible for the restoration on the comics he sells is because people think he's the one restoring them, which makes the point about his detecting it moot. However, no direct evidence of this behavior has yet been publicly presented, nor has any direct evidence of the link between Meth and Daniel Dupcak, a well-known restorer of comics and convicted felon, yet been publicly presented.
Joanna Posted October 8, 2002 Posted October 8, 2002 Okay, FF, I get it. But so far I've only seen one person mention that he got a restored book, and his money was refunded. Another person said his book wasn't restored. The primary proof of guilt (according to many) appears to be an unwillingness to slab. Here's a question for Meth that I'm curious about: why don't you slab? Is it the money, the time, a matter of principle (you don't like their business practices, don't trust their grading, etc.) or some other reason? There is a company I don't like -- shady business practices, userous prices, treated their customers like dirt. But they were the only game in town in this particular area. A few years ago, I decided to stop giving them another dime. My friends continued to complain loudly about how bad this company was, but also continued to spend freely. The more they spent, the more they complained, but why should the company care as it was raking in the cash? Then I started to be criticized. I was seen as "holier than thou" because I refused to do business with them. No one liked seeing someone willing to do without all the neat stuff because of a principle. Every time I defended myself, my reasons -- my personal reasons made by me for me alone -- were seen as a condemnation of others. It's an endless cycle. So there can be legitimate reasons for refusing to indulge in the services of a business that has a lock on a market. Meth would make a lot more money by slabbing. But he doesn't do it. That's why I want to ask him why. Restoration is one reason, but it's not the only reason. -- Joanna
fantastic_four Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Do you know whether shortwave is at all useful to detect some types of restoration? I've seen some ultraviolet lamps that have an adjustment to switch back and forth between longwave and shortwave. I'm aware that shortwave can be dangerous, but as long as you don't stick your arm under it, you should be fine. Look at the following picture taken from a CGC advertisement: There appears to be a little slider on the top of the light. My best guess is that the slider adjusts the wavelength of the light. How much it adjusts, I dunno. I'm also assuming that the little viewing panel on the top contains a magnifier. Wonder where you get a light like the one above? Another question--what do you use for magnification? Ever considered a stereoscope?
Guest Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 UV Light: ShortWave, Length = 180 to 280 nm : UV-C has germicidal power. Eye and skin protection is required. MediumWave, Length = 280 to 320 nm : UV-B is characterized by the ability to cause sunburn. Some skin and eye protection is advisable. LongWave , Length = 320 to 380 nm : UV-A waves are commonly called BlackLight or Wood'sLight. Long waves can pigment the skin but do not cause sunburn. Eye protection is not required but recommended.
fantastic_four Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Think that slider is to vary the wavelength between longwave and shortwave? I've heard stamp collectors say that shortwave helps to detect certain types of work, but I've never heard a comic person say that. I'm thinking about getting one of those lamps that lets you adjust the wavelength, but since they're $150+, I figured I'd see if anybody else knows the best type of light to get instead of wasting dough researching a light that I may end up wanting to replace later.
Guest Posted October 13, 2002 Posted October 13, 2002 Jamie, I don't know if you can do that with a specific UV light source. I've never seen it, and so many things come out that you're not aware of, that it's difficult keeping up with new products hitting the marketplaces. I would imagine that if a device to vary the actual wavelength of the light source (the elements present in the bulb) was designed and available for either commercial or home use, it would go for FAR in excess of $150.00. I don't think that slider has anything to do with changing the nHz of the source, I feel that it may be an aperature setting to concentrate or widen the beam or a rheostat like fader to increase or decrease intensity. The SSR or spectral sensitivity range of a BLACK UV light (which is actually an indigo spectrum effect..dark purple) is 315 to 400 nm. Frequencies under 315 nm would NOT fluoresce the colors on the cover of a comic in the same manner that a BLACK light does. I don't think there's an adjustment that can be made on the unit like the one pictured above, to the substances themselves, whatever the internal 3000 or so natural and man made substances was picked for that particular bulb, that can transform invisible radiated UV energy into longer, visible wavelengths that appear in a variety of colors.
