THE FLASH starring Ezra Miller 2022 10 10

[Bosco685]

On 8/9/2022 at 6:29 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Glad you said it. The other movies on his list are well-regarded as being artistically bad and/or poorly-written overall. BvS is divided mostly by people who are open-minded, and those who aren't. Doesn't help that BvS was re-cut by the studio a mere months before release. <<< This is why I'm always curious as to the reception/reaction of the UC. It doesn't 'fix' the movie for all people, but I would say that seemingly 90% like it a lot better than the TC.

Agreed!

For me, BVS UE is such a solid film as those missing 30 minutes were so roughly edited out once I saw it I never went back to the TC.

Blaming the director for what the studio haphazardly did carrying over to Justice League demonstrates how WB was already undermining its own plans. So self-defeating.

[Gatsby77]

On 8/9/2022 at 6:29 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

BvS is divided mostly by people who are open-minded, and those who aren't. 

Possibly.

But if word-of-mouth from those who saw it was good - or even passable - it wouldn't have dropped 69+% in its second weekend.

Even Josh Trank's Fantastic Four fell only 68%+ in its second weekend.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/9/2022 at 6:46 AM, Gatsby77 said:

Possibly.

But if word-of-mouth from those who saw it was good - or even passable - it wouldn't have dropped 69+% in its second weekend.

Even Josh Trank's Fantastic Four fell only 68%+ in its second weekend.

This is just an assumption on your part, and doesn't account for the admitted possibility. With a mixed CinemaScore of "B", it financially achieved what the metric assumed; About 3X budget. Based on all reception metrics, about 2/3 people enjoyed BvS. This is the reaction to a cut mandated by the studio a mere months ahead of release. We have since learned that it wasn't the cut intended by the creative team, and most will use the proper cut to determine the value of the movie. Unfortunately, we don't have any dedicated numbers for the Ultimate Cut, but most people you could talk to would give it a 'good' score.

With studio interference, and close-minded 'purists', BvS' theatrical cut numbers suffer from mitigating factors that we cannot look at it in the same light as most CBMs. You would be mistaken in calling it an artistic or financial failure, though, while the others you listed are certainly one or the other.

[Bosco685]

On 8/9/2022 at 6:46 AM, Gatsby77 said:

Possibly.

But if word-of-mouth from those who saw it was good - or even passable - it wouldn't have dropped 69+% in its second weekend.

Even Josh Trank's Fantastic Four fell only 68%+ in its second weekend.

The keys. Please leave them at the front office. One day!

[Bosco685]

On 8/9/2022 at 7:04 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

This is just an assumption on your part, and doesn't account for the admitted possibility. With a mixed CinemaScore of "B", it financially achieved what the metric assumed; About 3X budget. Based on all reception metrics, about 2/3 people enjoyed BvS. This is the reaction to a cut mandated by the studio a mere months ahead of release. We have since learned that it wasn't the cut intended by the creative team, and most will use the proper cut to determine the value of the movie. Unfortunately, we don't have any dedicated numbers for the Ultimate Cut, but most people you could talk to would give it a 'good' score.

With studio interference, and close-minded 'purists', BvS' theatrical cut numbers suffer from mitigating factors that we cannot look at it in the same light as most CBMs. You would be mistaken in calling it an artistic or financial failure, though, while the others you listed are certainly one or the other.

Honestly, it exceeded what a 'B' CinemaScore implies with WOM marketing (3.5X when successful movies have to meet or exceed 2.5-2.8x). Even with the divisive reaction from critics and movie review bloggers. Which is even more amazing.

And since Aquaman keeps coming up, let's look at the groundwork established beforehand. Even with WB Studios severely tampering with the Justice League product.

BVS introduced both Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Leading to a wildly successful Wonder Woman. Justice League then brought them together as a team, though poorly executed. But audiences saw both WW and Aquaman in action to spark more audience interest leading to the success of Aquaman. To act like Aquaman 'just happened' without these details is an approach. But then it is a view with plenty of bias built into it.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/9/2022 at 8:03 AM, Bosco685 said:

Honestly, it exceeded what a 'B' CinemaScore implies with WOM marketing (3.5X when successful movies have to meet or exceed 2.5-2.8x). Even with the divisive reaction from critics and movie review bloggers. Which is even more amazing.

And since Aquaman keeps coming up, let's look at the groundwork established beforehand. Even with WB Studios severely tampering with the Justice League product.

BVS introduced both Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Leading to a wildly successful Wonder Woman. Justice League then brought them together as a team, though poorly executed. But audiences saw both WW and Aquaman in action to spark more audience interest leading to the success of Aquaman. To act like Aquaman 'just happened' without these details is an approach. But then it is a view with plenty of bias built into it.

For some reason, I thought that BvS' budget was $300 million.

[Bosco685]

On 8/9/2022 at 8:06 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

For some reason, I thought that BvS' budget was $300 million.

Nope. That's JL.

The hate messages on here blur the lines at times between movies when someone is trying to portray all of it was bad. Not surprised the numbers get confusing.

[seanfingh]

An Ezra Miller report came across my phone this morning. He has been indicted for aggravated burglary in VT for breaking into a home and stealing liquor.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ezra-miller-charged-felony-burglary-alcohol-vermont-police-234751937.html

 

[▫️]

On 8/9/2022 at 5:08 PM, seanfingh said:

An Ezra Miller report came across my phone this morning. He has been indicted for aggravated burglary in VT for breaking into a home and stealing liquor.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ezra-miller-charged-felony-burglary-alcohol-vermont-police-234751937.html

 

Well.. stolen beers taste better.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:12 AM, ▫️ said:

Well.. stolen beers taste better.

Definitely better than the beers I had yesterday, 11 of 12 were flat, probably because they were skunked. Miller was probably looking for this:

[WolverineX]

On 8/9/2022 at 10:08 AM, seanfingh said:

An Ezra Miller report came across my phone this morning. He has been indicted for aggravated burglary in VT for breaking into a home and stealing liquor.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ezra-miller-charged-felony-burglary-alcohol-vermont-police-234751937.html

 

A dumpster fire.  Good thing the movie had a good prescreening.    The show must go on.

[drotto]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:41 AM, WolverineX said:

A dumpster fire.  Good thing the movie had a good prescreening.    The show must go on.

All that is true, but the PR optics are a mess, especially if he is going to be put on trial.  With the anticipated 2023 release date, this could be happening around the same time. Even if the movie is a masterpiece, are people going to want and see a possible felon with his recent track record?

WB will cut ties with Miller.  Here they have done the math that the movie will make more even if it flops, then the tax write off would be.  How much more can WB write off after Batgirl?

[WolverineX]

On 8/9/2022 at 1:52 PM, drotto said:

All that is true, but the PR optics are a mess, especially if he is going to be put on trial.  With the anticipated 2023 release date, this could be happening around the same time. Even if the movie is a masterpiece, are people going to want and see a possible felon with his recent track record?

WB will cut ties with Miller.  Here they have done the math that the movie will make more even if it flops, then the tax write off would be.  How much more can WB write off after Batgirl?

I was being sarcastic.  I agree with you. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/9/2022 at 1:52 PM, drotto said:

Even if the movie is a masterpiece, are people going to want and see a possible felon with his recent track record?

Absolutely. We're comic book people talking about CBMs, so of course we're going to pay attention to the details of these movies. Both of my brothers watch CBMs and are on social media; Neither of them know about the Amber Heard* or Ezra Miller situations.

*They know that Depp and Heard are at odds, but that's about it.

[drotto]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:06 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Absolutely. We're comic book people talking about CBMs, so of course we're going to pay attention to the details of these movies. Both of my brothers watch CBMs and are on social media; Neither of them know about the Amber Heard* or Ezra Miller situations.

*They know that Depp and Heard are at odds, but that's about it.

But how much desire or buzz is there for this film with casual CM fans?  The MCU has a massive fan base and lots of good will (which is starting to dwindle), and is struggling to hit $900 million now.  Add to that, when people think DC they think Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, not the Flash.  With that a Batman movie just struggled to clear $800 million. Thor with its massive fan base and well Thor, is going to finish in the $750 range.

 

So given these factors, plus the Ezra liability, where does this film go? My gut says $500 to $600 million.  Given the known budget, media campaign and still possible reshoots (how do these even get done now), this movie should break even, but will struggle to truly make money.

 

To me Aquaman was more about Mamoa, clean optics, and a feeling at the time that the DCEU had righted itself and was going somewhere. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:42 PM, drotto said:

But how much desire or buzz is there for this film with casual CM fans?

Michael Keaton and Ben Affleck might be all they need. I know that my older brother will see it for the former, so likely will my parents.

I don't really know what to expect, $$$$$-wise.

[Straw-Man]

i'm officially off any possibility of seeing this one, theater or at home.   just flat turned-off, past the point of no-return.   good luck to them in prison.

[bentbryan]

[D84]

I don't think Miller will do well in prison. There'd be no women to beat up.

[Bosco685]

Did Ezra Miller get in trouble? I hadn't heard anything.

Spoiler

For at least 10 minutes