THE FLASH starring Ezra Miller 2022 10 10

[eastriver400]

https://ew.com/movies/james-gunn-says-too-many-superhero-movies-have-gotten-really-lazy/

 

 

“his note about sequels that fail to focus on "what makes this story stand apart from other stories" feels relevant to Shazam! Fury of the Gods, which mostly eschewed the superheroes-meet-Big energy of the first Shazam! film in favor of over-the-top violence and fantasy characters that had little connection to the character's comic-book source material. Third acts with no rhyme or reason? That could certainly apply to The Flash.”

 

 

 

Gunn has some ideas about how to refresh the genre. One is to make fewer superhero movies and not "overextend" — although the new DC regime has already announced several projects, including Gunn's Superman: Legacy film. Another is to vary up the subgenres. 

"I like very serious superhero movies, and I like very comedic superhero movies," Gunn said. "I like ones that are a murder mystery but it's with superheroes. I like to see these different types of stories, as opposed to seeing the same story told over and over again."

 

 

[drotto]

On 6/26/2023 at 10:45 AM, thegiftedone45 said:

If DC isn't going to get rid of the Blue Beetle and Aquaman movies they would be smart to delay Aquaman for a year since it seems Mamoa isn't going to be Aquaman again.  Delay Blue Beetle for 2 years since it seems that he will be in the newer movies they're starting to come up with.

Aquaman 2 has already been delayed close to two years, delaying it further would likely do even more harm to the film.  Case in point is Flash, which was in total development for around 8 years.  Also like the Flash, there have been multiple reported reshoots, and is a film set in the now cancelled Snyderverse (this is not a commentary on the Snyderverse).  Not to mention another troublesome star in Amber Heard. The Flash's performance is flashing (see what I did there) red lights and sounding sirens, that Aquaman could be in real trouble. I am not sure anything is going to help this film at this point, director with a good track record or not. Heck , Rian Johnsen was the hottest young director out there until a little Star Wars film (I do actually like the Knives Out films however). 

 

I see no hope for Blue Beetle at this point.  

[rjrjr]

On 6/26/2023 at 4:39 AM, Cman429 said:

The future of DC comes down to Gunn’s Superman. If that doesn’t hit and hit HUGE then they’ll scale down his remaining projects before dumping him and scrapping everything. A company $50 billion in debt can’t keep throwing good money after bad. 

I disagree this movie has to be huge. This movie needs a reasonable budget and characters the audience cares for. As long as it is a good Superman movie and it makes money, it will be a fine start. They should not be expecting $1 billion and they should budget accordingly.

The problem with the DCU and the MCU is they are swinging for home runs every outing. The MCU did not start this way and it cannot expect every movie to bring in big money.  The early Marvel movies did this. But almost every movie since Civil War has been an attempt to be more than they should be. None of the recent movies, Flash included, earned the crossovers we are seeing. We did not see the Flash earn the hero title so why would his first solo outing not be an actual solo movie?  Ditto for many of the recent Marvel superhero intros.

Reduce budgets. Use practical effects. Give us compelling characters. The rest will take care of itself.

[rjrjr]

We do not have superhero fatigue, we have studios and fans with unreasonable expectations because of the Avengers success. I liked the Flash movie btw, but I thought it would have worked better as a solo movie and they could have had generally the same story without Batman, Supergirl, etc. and accomplished this with a smaller budget and a shorter runtime. They had an easy double or triple, but they swung for the fence and missed.

Edited June 27, 2023 by rjrjr

[Bosco685]

 

[media_junkie]

Wow, so what, 32 days from theatrical release to being able to watch at home.

[Bosco685]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:23 AM, media_junkie said:

Wow, so what, 32 days from theatrical release to being able to watch at home.

Incredible!

Now I wonder if WBD is rethinking Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 as theatrical releases.

[drotto]

On 6/27/2023 at 12:50 AM, rjrjr said:

I disagree this movie has to be huge. This movie needs a reasonable budget and characters the audience cares for. As long as it is a good Superman movie and it makes money, it will be a fine start. They should not be expecting $1 billion and they should budget accordingly.

The problem with the DCU and the MCU is they are swinging for home runs every outing. The MCU did not start this way and it cannot expect every movie to bring in big money.  The early Marvel movies did this. But almost every movie since Civil War has been an attempt to be more than they should be. None of the recent movies, Flash included, earned the crossovers we are seeing. We did not see the Flash earn the hero title so why would his first solo outing not be an actual solo movie?  Ditto for many of the recent Marvel superhero intros.

Reduce budgets. Use practical effects. Give us compelling characters. The rest will take care of itself.

Agreed.  They need to make a Superman film with about a $150 million budget, and spend about $100 million on marketing.  In theory, if the movie clears about $500 million they can claim it a financial success.  There is no need to produce a film needing to hit $800 million plus, until the studio sees a dime. Keep expectations on the low side. 

 

Start small, and just make a good film, and concentrate on your core characters. It may even be wise to avoid even announcing a big team up film.  Make 2 or 3 sid Supeman films, a few Batman films, a Wonder Woman film.  All with reasonable budgets and therefor reasonable expectations.  Possibley throw in a few known but more minor characters. Be willing to tell a small story, rhe world does not need to be saved every film. Get the audience back on board, and gain their trust that they will see a fun, quality product. Build the excitement.

[drotto]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:33 AM, Bosco685 said:

Incredible!

Now I wonder if WBD is rethinking Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 as theatrical releases.

They may be better memory holed for the tax write off. Do not see this happening for Aquman, but could see it with Blue Beetle.

[Cman429]

I don’t want to derail this into political talk but there’s no way WBD shelves Blue Beetle after the backlash for shelving Batgirl. The heat they’d get for scrubbing two superhero movies starring POC would be a corporate nightmare. 

They should’ve just written off all Snyderverse related movies the second they announced the Gunn transition and reboot. I guess they couldn’t have possibly foreseen this level of apathy toward these lame duck DCU films, tho. 

As for the idea Superman Legacy should be a modestly budgeted movie with modest expectations. That’s all well and good except CEO Zaslav says in every investor call that DC is one of their prime assets and it’s potential to be exploited is “enormous” which is corporate speak for “it’s gonna make us A LOT of money.” A $500 million world gross for that movie would likely trigger the end of the DCU and we’d just get a bunch of standalone Bat movies after they dump Swamp Thing. 

[paperheart]

Don't think they could run down this cliff without falling on their face

[eastriver400]

On 6/27/2023 at 8:37 AM, drotto said:

Agreed.  They need to make a Superman film with about a $150 million budget, and spend about $100 million on marketing.  In theory, if the movie clears about $500 million they can claim it a financial success.  There is no need to produce a film needing to hit $800 million plus, until the studio sees a dime. Keep expectations on the low side. 

 

Start small, and just make a good film, and concentrate on your core characters. It may even be wise to avoid even announcing a big team up film.  Make 2 or 3 sid Supeman films, a few Batman films, a Wonder Woman film.  All with reasonable budgets and therefor reasonable expectations.  Possibley throw in a few known but more minor characters. Be willing to tell a small story, rhe world does not need to be saved every film. Get the audience back on board, and gain their trust that they will see a fun, quality product. Build the excitement.

 

its Superman. One of the most recognizable IP’s in the world.  Couple that with the fact that it’s the first movie in a Universe reboot.   Regardless of budget, if SL brings in a total of 500 million worldwide then I would be surprised to see WB pouring any more serious money into non Batman movies. 
 

[rjrjr]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:53 AM, Cman429 said:

As for the idea Superman Legacy should be a modestly budgeted movie with modest expectations. That’s all well and good except CEO Zaslav says in every investor call that DC is one of their prime assets and it’s potential to be exploited is “enormous” which is corporate speak for “it’s gonna make us A LOT of money.” A $500 million world gross for that movie would likely trigger the end of the DCU and we’d just get a bunch of standalone Bat movies after they dump Swamp Thing. 

Again, expectations are way too high from the studios and fans. A decent budget and return is a success. Anything else is noise. The payoff comes down the line when they earn the audience’s trust and then they can bring the characters together. Both Marvel and DC have this problem right now. I hope Gunn understands this even if other higher ups (and many fans) do not.

Edited June 27, 2023 by rjrjr

[rjrjr]

On 6/27/2023 at 9:24 AM, eastriver400 said:

 

its Superman. One of the most recognizable IP’s in the world.  Couple that with the fact that it’s the first movie in a Universe reboot.   Regardless of budget, if SL brings in a total of 500 million worldwide then I would be surprised to see WB pouring any more serious money into non Batman movies. 
 

Thank goodness this mindset did not exist when Batman Begins came out. Otherwise we never would have seen what is arguably the best Batman movie made to date, The Dark Knight.

[Bosco685]

On 6/27/2023 at 10:53 AM, Cman429 said:

I don’t want to derail this into political talk but there’s no way WBD shelves Blue Beetle after the backlash for shelving Batgirl. The heat they’d get for scrubbing two superhero movies starring POC would be a corporate nightmare. 

They should’ve just written off all Snyderverse related movies the second they announced the Gunn transition and reboot. I guess they couldn’t have possibly foreseen this level of apathy toward these lame duck DCU films, tho. 

As for the idea Superman Legacy should be a modestly budgeted movie with modest expectations. That’s all well and good except CEO Zaslav says in every investor call that DC is one of their prime assets and it’s potential to be exploited is “enormous” which is corporate speak for “it’s gonna make us A LOT of money.” A $500 million world gross for that movie would likely trigger the end of the DCU and we’d just get a bunch of standalone Bat movies after they dump Swamp Thing. 

There was no predicting accurately all the WB executive turmoil behind the scenes causing all this shifting of production scope and limitations. To include Gunn joining in changes to a supposed "production completed" film.

James Gunn Removed Major Gal Gadot Scene from The Flash Movie

The Flash's Original Endings Revealed, Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot & Michael Keaton Scene Removed By James Gunn

You've had too many hands at the ship wheel steering towards True DC North. Including now Gunn shooting down scenes so as to setup his own films. But let's blame the "Snyderverse" which included The Suicide Squad (2021).

[eastriver400]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:51 PM, Bosco685 said:

There was no predicting accurately all the WB executive turmoil behind the scenes causing all this shifting of production scope and limitations. To include Gunn joining in changes to a supposed "production completed" film.

James Gunn Removed Major Gal Gadot Scene from The Flash Movie

The Flash's Original Endings Revealed, Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot & Michael Keaton Scene Removed By James Gunn

You've had too many hands at the ship wheel steering towards True DC North. Including now Gunn shooting down scenes so as to setup his own films. But let's blame the "Snyderverse" which included The Suicide Squad (2021).

 

Do you really think if those scenes weren't cut, the box office outcome would have changed much?   

 

[eastriver400]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:51 PM, Bosco685 said:

 

You've had too many hands at the ship wheel steering towards True DC North. Including now Gunn shooting down scenes so as to setup his own films. But let's blame the "Snyderverse" which included The Suicide Squad (2021).

 

Which is precisely what Gunn said when he took over. He even joked that he was allowed to enter Bat-Mite into the cannon.  

 

[Bosco685]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:57 PM, eastriver400 said:

 

Do you really think if those scenes weren't cut, the box office outcome would have changed much?   

 

 

On 6/27/2023 at 2:01 PM, eastriver400 said:

 

Which is precisely what Gunn said when he took over. He even joked that he was allowed to enter Bat-Mite into the cannon.  

 

If the reaction to Cavill's return became such a positive - and the scene cut was leading into Man of Steel 2 - in addition to lining up Gal Gadot's next movie - what do you think?

[▫️]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:36 PM, rjrjr said:

Thank goodness this mindset did not exist when Batman Begins came out. Otherwise we never would have seen what is arguably the best Batman movie made to date, The Dark Knight.

Not the best Batman movie, the best comic book movie. And not arguably. 

[Cman429]

If they hadn’t announced they were scrapping the Snyderverse entirely, the Flash would’ve absolutely done much better than this. Was this the greatest superhero movie ever? Not even close. But was it as bad as Steel or even Ant Man 3? Not even close. 

That’s what I meant when I said the WBD execs badly miscalculated. Evidently the fanbase for DCU films was a contingent of Snyderverse fans who for whatever reason enjoy his distorted view of DC heroes and another segment I’ll call FOMO Fans who feel like they need to see everything in an connected universe to stay in the loop. Once WBD put it out that Snyder’s vision was out and all these remaining movies meant nothing to a larger picture, they lost almost all those two groups.

I think they expected at least the Snyder fans to stay on board as a way to show support for the remains of his “vision.”