THE FLASH starring Ezra Miller 2022 10 10

[drotto]

On 8/29/2023 at 7:28 PM, paperheart said:

the hits just keep on coming

DC’s The Flash, the Justice League spinoff movie starring Ezra Miller in the title role, pulled in 1.1M US households in it’s Live+2 Day window on Max per Samba TV. The Andy Muschietti directed Warner Bros. title hit Warners streaming service on Aug. 25.

That figure is -8% from the weekend debut of Black Adam during Dec. 16-18 which clocked 1.2M U.S. households.

Apparently, the film is already on sale on VOD services.

[RobAnybody]

I recently watched this on (HBO) MAX.  It was pretty bad. Keaton Batman was the highlight. The CGI was pretty awful, the plot was almost non-sensical, IMO. It butchered the Flashpoint storyline, which would have been great, if they'd just adapted that. The multiple-Ezra's trying to out-annoy me didn't help.

But, what really irritates me is: I'm a huge Supergirl fan. Was so hoping for an accurate Supergirl, even in the dead DCEU. But this characterization missed on: the look, the costume, the name (it's "Care-Uh", not "Khar-ah" - I don't know when modern interpretations suddenly can't even pronounce her NAME right), but more importantly, the personality: she's a fish-out-of-water, came to Earth as a teenager, loves using her powers, hates having to use a secret identity but grudgingly accepts it 'cause Clark teaches her why, & is super-cheerful & optimistic. This film's version is just Supergirl-in-name-only. They just slapped the name on an entirely different character. Which, sure, it's an alternate universe (where she takes the Superman role from Flashpoint). But what really just sucks, IMO is that this movie essentially means I won't get a genuine big screen, proper Supergirl any time soon. *sigh*

[Larryw7]

On 8/29/2023 at 10:51 PM, drotto said:

Apparently, the film is already on sale on VOD services.

It just came out on Blu-ray.

[media_junkie]

I didn't go to this in the theaters.  I had thought about watching it on Max, but after seeing some of the really bad CGI Clips that are starting to hit Youtube and my extreme dislike of Ezra, this won't even be a MAX view.

[Bosco685]

Even for those that felt it was okay/likeable, the more we learn about new leadership forced changes...

 

[Broke as a Joke]

Tried watching this last night and couldn't get through the first 20 minutes or so.  Bad cgi and just a poorly designed slow motion sequence.  Considering this movie means nothing, I don't feel like I'll be missing anything substantial.  

[MattTheDuck]

On 8/30/2023 at 7:28 AM, Broke as a Joke said:

Tried watching this last night and couldn't get through the first 20 minutes or so.  Bad cgi and just a poorly designed slow motion sequence.  Considering this movie means nothing, I don't feel like I'll be missing anything substantial.  

Same here.  I thought that first half hour was just campy.  I watched through when he

Spoiler

met himself

and it's just so dumb.  I'll never forgive Ezra for ruining this.

[Sauce Dog]

On 8/30/2023 at 11:05 AM, MattTheDuck said:

 I'll never forgive Ezra for ruining this.

Now, now, there were plenty of people involved in this car crash of a movie to ruin this experience   

[MattTheDuck]

On 8/30/2023 at 3:48 PM, Sauce Dog said:

Now, now, there were plenty of people involved in this car crash of a movie to ruin this experience   

It would be really interesting to hear if the -script was changed after he had all his problems to try to make him more "likeable" or if the campy, goofy, clownish character was always intended.

[Zonker]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:05 PM, MattTheDuck said:

It would be really interesting to hear if the --script was changed after he had all his problems to try to make him more "likeable" or if the campy, goofy, clownish character was always intended.

He was already kind of the goofy one in Zack Snyder's Justice League, wasn't he?  This sure isn't the Silver Age Barry Allen "police scientist" we grew up with.  If anything, this character borrows from the treatment of the Flash in the Justice League Unlimited animated series, a kind of immature, smart-alecky younger guy.  And I get it, if you're doing an ensemble piece like JL, you want to have different character-types to liven things up.  That's traditionally the knock on the DC characters-- each one is a paragon of virtue, ultra-professional at all times, always following Robert's Rules of Order, etc. 

So, "Not my Barry Allen," but then, I knew that going into this particular movie.

The one line I did wonder if they added after Miller's off-screen troubles was when the Flash says to the hospital staff right after Batman & WW depart, something like "Well, you know the members of the Justice League aren't exactly prime examples of mental health..."  That was either a last-minute -script addition, or else an unintentional breaking of the fourth wall!

[RobAnybody]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:33 PM, Zonker said:

That's traditionally the knock on the DC characters-- each one is a paragon of virtue, ultra-professional at all times, always following Robert's Rules of Order, etc.

That's a great point, & probably why Aquaman was so successful.  The DCEU characters are all basically "good gods", meaning they don't really have any flaws & are always just "the nicest person in the room" but also with god-like powers.  It's kinda... boring to watch, but also why Batman stands out, 'cause he's not at all like that.  And why the Jason Momoa version of Aquaman also stands out (plus, not to be shallow, but women love Jason Momoa).  They tried to make Flash the Spider-Man of the DCEU, but that's not really his personality (the CW Flash show was a more accurate portrayal IMO).  Marvel managed to make Captain America, the ultimate Boy Scout, interesting & fun.  Which was honestly quite an accomplishment, but not something Warner ever managed with their characters.

[Bosco685]

On 8/30/2023 at 9:25 PM, RobAnybody said:

Marvel managed to make Captain America, the ultimate Boy Scout, interesting & fun.  Which was honestly quite an accomplishment, but not something Warner ever managed with their characters.

But what this assumption misses (they should do it like the MCU) is this was done purposely. Yet WB execs kept tampering with the strategy because they wanted to force the MCU on its own roadmap.

Zack Snyder shared in interviews he was concerned if you just copied the MCU, then there would always be this forced comparison. And the DC films considered just a mirror of Marvel Studios without much differentiation other than costumes and characters.

Zack Snyder Praises Marvel Studios For Being 'So Good' at What They Do

Quote

“They’re doing, at the highest level, this popular action-comedy with a heart. And they have that nailed. An effort to duplicate that is insanity because they’re so good at it. What DC had was mythology at an epic level, and we were going to take them on this amazing journey.”

 

“No, not at all. I don’t know how to hit a ball any different than I hit it. A director has one skill — your point of view. That’s all you have. If you’re trying to imitate another way of making a movie, then you’re on a slippery slope.”

And the challenge we learned with Superman is with multi-decades of lore and character variances an element of the audience reflected on those parts of comic book history and proclaimed "not my Superman". Whether it was earlier TV shows, movie interpretations or the smaller population picking periods in comics.

Yet by altering Aquaman along the Peter David period of the character's look and behavior (the sea protector with a hard edge) via Momoa audiences loved it making the solo a massive hit. And with Gal Gadot her Wonder Woman solo overcame the assumption female CBMs never work. And with Cavill no matter the constant complaining from louder voices, audiences connected with his character, breaking the diminishing returns streak of ever-lower box office results.

Now we have "not my Barry Allen" and "not my Supergirl" to contend with.

Injustice: Gods Among Us

And with Barry he is more from the Geoff Johns run. Though as was noted he serves as the younger version learning from the more seasoned heroes. Yet still has the traditional elements of a murdered mother, imprisoned father, the love interest and the desire to clear his father's name. And we learn at the end of both Justice League movies he gets a job as a forensic scientist.

Good times!

Edited August 31, 2023 by Bosco685

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/31/2023 at 2:16 AM, Bosco685 said:

Now we have "not my Barry Allen" and "not my Supergirl" to contend with.

I think the biggest issue with this Barry Allen is that they cast a guy who is more of a William Zabka 80's-smarmy-bad-guy-that-you-love-to-hate than another actor people don't feel that way towards - but with William Zabka, he fit the role because he was a "bad guy" - Ezra doesn't quite fit because he has that look, but they are trying to make him the "good guy". There is a psychology at work with audiences towards Ezra Miller (infinitely compounded by his constant jackassery and hilariously inept "apology" for it). He did not resonate with people as Barry Allen. He's not forgivable in his off-screen antics, because he comes across as a unapologetic weirdo. He was a bad pick for the character.

Yes, this is the part where I namedrop Grant Gustin. However, not because I liked him as CW's Flash, but because he does not have that aura around him (for whatever reason) that Ezra Miller does. He naturally puts forth all those things that people find in the magnanimous characterization of Barry Allen.

It's likely not quantifiable to why people feel that way, they just do. I've not met a single person who felt Ezra Miller is a good choice for The Flash - and they've felt that way since Justice League. Until DC looks at the issue in a different way, we're probably stuck with him - and I don't know if he's going to get the same vindication that Matthew Keaton and the others got in retrospect.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Dr. Balls

[Bosco685]

On 8/31/2023 at 10:55 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I think the biggest issue with this Barry Allen is that they cast a guy who is more of a William Zabka 80's-smarmy-bad-guy-that-you-love-to-hate than another actor people don't feel that way towards - but with William Zabka, he fit the role because he was a "bad guy" - Ezra doesn't quite fit because he has that look, but they are trying to make him the "good guy". There is a psychology at work with audiences towards Ezra Miller (infinitely compounded by his constant jackassery and hilariously inept "apology" for it). He did not resonate with people as Barry Allen. He's not forgivable in his off-screen antics, because he comes across as a unapologetic weirdo. He was a bad pick for the character.

Yes, this is the part where I namedrop Grant Gustin. However, not because I liked him as CW's Flash, but because he does not have that aura around him (for whatever reason) that Ezra Miller does. He naturally puts forth all those things that people find in the magnanimous characterization of Barry Allen.

It's likely not quantifiable to why people feel that way, they just do. I've not met a single person who felt Ezra Miller is a good choice for The Flash - and they've felt that way since Justice League. Until DC looks at the issue in a different way, we're probably stuck with him - and I don't know if he's going to get the same vindication that Matthew Keaton and the others got in retrospect.

I hear you. But I also think from reading this thread for a long while Ezra Miller's actions outside of the movies more heavily influences their reaction to a casting/performance than the actual results.

To say the people I have spoken with in my travels is my sample of the majority of opinions (not 100% what you are saying) can lead to an echo chamber of assumuptions.

Would he have been my Barry Allen choice back then? Not really. Did he deliver in the end with Zack Snyder's Justice League? I think he did with the interpretation they went with. But that's me not speaking for the majority.

[RobAnybody]

On 8/31/2023 at 4:16 AM, Bosco685 said:

But what this assumption misses (they should do it like the MCU)...

Never said this.  I just said Marvel managed to make Captain America of all people an interesting character that people liked. So it shows that it's not impossible to make "Boy Scout" characters (which DC has in abundance) connect with audiences.

On 8/31/2023 at 4:16 AM, Bosco685 said:

Now we have "not my Barry Allen" and "not my Supergirl" to contend with.

Yes, DC cannot afford any own goals. They were already so behind the 8-ball that they should have probably played it safe & avoided throwing into triple coverage. Just run it up the middle & sink the free throws. Yikes - I think I have exceeded my allowed sports metaphors for multiple years in this single paragraph.

But my point is: we see where giving people "not my X" got them.

[MAR1979]

On 8/31/2023 at 4:16 AM, Bosco685 said:

Now we have "not my Barry Allen" and "not my Supergirl" to contend with.

I have mine and they both had CW TV Shows!

it tested well - assuming that was even true then their testing method is flawed and FOOBAR-ed!  Batgirl might have broke even. Loses from the Flash turd should be clawed back from Zaslov's 250MIL salary - yep that incompetent id10t made 250 Million USD in 2022, for doing what at this point in time no one actually knows.

Edited September 1, 2023 by MAR1979

[Bosco685]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:30 PM, RobAnybody said:

Never said this.  I just said Marvel managed to make Captain America of all people an interesting character that people liked. So it shows that it's not impossible to make "Boy Scout" characters (which DC has in abundance) connect with audiences.

DC made a Broadway and soap opera star into a huge superhero success story and a comedian into a hugely successful dark vigilante. So I agree successes can be made. Captain America has been one of the key Marvel figureheads for decades before the MCU came along.  So playing at the B or C character folklore is just that.

On 9/1/2023 at 6:30 PM, RobAnybody said:

Yes, DC cannot afford any own goals. They were already so behind the 8-ball that they should have probably played it safe & avoided throwing into triple coverage. Just run it up the middle & sink the free throws. Yikes - I think I have exceeded my allowed sports metaphors for multiple years in this single paragraph.

But my point is: we see where giving people "not my X" got them.

As has been stated before, after WB ran the Superman brand into the box office basement with diminishing returns, it finally delivered a return to success with Man of Steel. Then it fumbled the ball by cutting BVS's theatrical runtime down by 30 minutes and screwed with Justice League by forcing MCUization. Which afterwards Zack Snyder's Justice League delivered what should have been.

So your point give the audiences only what they assume again misses that point.

[RobAnybody]

On 9/2/2023 at 5:52 AM, Bosco685 said:

So your point give the audiences only what they assume again misses that point.

Then I guess it's a good thing that was never my point. My point was: don't intentionally give audiences what they don't want by presenting different or very obscure versions of characters they already know. We've seen how that works out.

The first time we saw Hulk it wasn't Red Hulk. The first time we saw Steve Rogers it wasn't as Nomad. Sony didn't start us off with Cosmic Spider-Man. Just because an obscure variant of a character exists in a comic somewhere doesn't mean "hey, let's start with that".

[Bosco685]

On 9/2/2023 at 11:33 AM, RobAnybody said:

Then I guess it's a good thing that was never my point. My point was: don't intentionally give audiences what they don't want by presenting different or very obscure versions of characters they already know. We've seen how that works out.

The first time we saw Hulk it wasn't Red Hulk. The first time we saw Steve Rogers it wasn't as Nomad. Sony didn't start us off with Cosmic Spider-Man. Just because an obscure variant of a character exists in a comic somewhere doesn't mean "hey, let's start with that".

You are forgetting there were five (5) Superman movies and four (4) Batman movies in modern times (not including the Batman serial series). All the MCU had to work around was the made for TV Captain America movies.

So yes. You are conveying to just do more of the same. Which would be lazy storytelling.

[bentbryan]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:30 AM, media_junkie said:

I didn't go to this in the theaters.  I had thought about watching it on Max, but after seeing some of the really bad CGI Clips that are starting to hit Youtube and my extreme dislike of Ezra, this won't even be a MAX view.

I’ve been background watching it on MAX the last few nights in 20 minute or so segments.  It’s not even what I would call bad CGI. It looks more like a straight-up animated movie during the action sequences.  
 

I’m watching right now and I take that last sentence back. It doesn’t just look like, it IS a straight-up animated movie.