Please support me in financing my education - THANKS! 2 2

[kav]

Please stop making this thread about me and posting stuff about me and why I suck.

 

I know you probably feel dumb because your knee-jerk assumption was wrong but that falls under the 'get over it' category.

[MR SigS]

Since this continues to be about you, instead of the OP, I'll put this thought out there. Mind you, I'm not trying to be harsh or mean.

 

Is there a chance skill had nothing to do with you not succeeding?

 

Clearly you have talent Kav, but your inability to consider, accept or even acknowledge an opinion other than your own may have been what held you back.

 

Quoted in red in case it was missed the first time.

 

 

I don't know if you know how it works but you submit your work to a publisher with a brief letter 'I am interested in the artist position for your graphic novel. Here is a link to my work'

They reply 'thanks for your submission but that is not the style we are looking for at this time good luck to you'.

The end.

How they could conclude from that 'this guy never sees others opinions-don't hire him' is baffling to me.

 

You're right, it's unlikely they can draw that conclusion from your samples. So it must have been something else.

 

 

as far as 'comparing myself to the giants', I don't know anything about the personalities of third rate artists. I have to use examples I know about. At some point Ditko was not a giant of the industry. He was hired. His personality is pretty well known.

 

His "well known personality" developed over his time in the business, I seriously doubt it was well known when he applied, so his talent must have had something to do with being hired.

 

 

 

Please stop making this thread about me and posting stuff about me and why I suck.

 

Wow. Just had to quote this.

 

 

 

And anyone saying (paraphrasing) "maybe your work isn't good enough" doesn't mean "[you] suck." Why does everything have to be so ABSOLUTELY black and white? Introduce some gray.

 

I can understand frustration, but this really sounds like bitterness. And your whole approach to the conversation has a "misery loves company" vibe to it.

[Vger7]

Since this continues to be about you, instead of the OP, I'll put this thought out there. Mind you, I'm not trying to be harsh or mean.

 

Is there a chance skill had nothing to do with you not succeeding?

 

Clearly you have talent Kav, but your inability to consider, accept or even acknowledge an opinion other than your own may have been what held you back.

Yep that's what got Neal Adams a job-the ability to see other people's opinion.

 

Different time and place. The world has evolved since the 70's and there's a lot more good artists now. Ironically, comics being a commercial industry, there's is also less "real" art being produced thanks to tools such as Photoshop (note: "real" is in quotes because it's also a matter of definition for you fans of digital), but I digress.

 

It's not enough just to be good these days. You have to be "likable". Hado is on point and reinforces what I was saying earlier. Jim Lee didn't become "Jim Lee" just because he can draw well. He also has the right temperament. Think Hollywood. Lots of great actors but very few make it into the industry elite. It's the way of the world today, which is why people with an "A" type personality tends to excel, which also ties back in to Malcom Gladwell's observations in his book Outliers.

 

But this is all moot. As Kav has stated, he's retired and has no interest, which is a shame. But my message to younger folks is not to let the fire burn out. Stay active, hone your skills, learn to communicate, learn to promote yourself... because, "if you build it, they will come."

[kav]

Since this continues to be about you, instead of the OP, I'll put this thought out there. Mind you, I'm not trying to be harsh or mean.

 

Is there a chance skill had nothing to do with you not succeeding?

 

Clearly you have talent Kav, but your inability to consider, accept or even acknowledge an opinion other than your own may have been what held you back.

 

Quoted in red in case it was missed the first time.

 

 

I don't know if you know how it works but you submit your work to a publisher with a brief letter 'I am interested in the artist position for your graphic novel. Here is a link to my work'

They reply 'thanks for your submission but that is not the style we are looking for at this time good luck to you'.

The end.

How they could conclude from that 'this guy never sees others opinions-don't hire him' is baffling to me.

 

You're right, it's unlikely they can draw that conclusion from your samples. So it must have been something else.

 

 

as far as 'comparing myself to the giants', I don't know anything about the personalities of third rate artists. I have to use examples I know about. At some point Ditko was not a giant of the industry. He was hired. His personality is pretty well known.

 

His "well known personality" developed over his time in the business, I seriously doubt it was well known when he applied, so his talent must have had something to do with being hired.

 

 

 

Please stop making this thread about me and posting stuff about me and why I suck.

 

Wow. Just had to quote this.

 

 

 

And anyone saying (paraphrasing) "maybe your work isn't good enough" doesn't mean "[you] suck." Why does everything have to be so ABSOLUTELY black and white? Introduce some gray.

 

I can understand frustration, but this really sounds like bitterness. And your whole approach to the conversation has a "misery loves company" vibe to it.

Please stop making this thread about me. Thanks..

[jsilverjanet]

this thread is not about me

[MR SigS]

Since this continues to be about you, instead of the OP, I'll put this thought out there. Mind you, I'm not trying to be harsh or mean.

 

Is there a chance skill had nothing to do with you not succeeding?

 

Clearly you have talent Kav, but your inability to consider, accept or even acknowledge an opinion other than your own may have been what held you back.

 

Quoted in red in case it was missed the first time.

 

 

I don't know if you know how it works but you submit your work to a publisher with a brief letter 'I am interested in the artist position for your graphic novel. Here is a link to my work'

They reply 'thanks for your submission but that is not the style we are looking for at this time good luck to you'.

The end.

How they could conclude from that 'this guy never sees others opinions-don't hire him' is baffling to me.

 

You're right, it's unlikely they can draw that conclusion from your samples. So it must have been something else.

 

 

as far as 'comparing myself to the giants', I don't know anything about the personalities of third rate artists. I have to use examples I know about. At some point Ditko was not a giant of the industry. He was hired. His personality is pretty well known.

 

His "well known personality" developed over his time in the business, I seriously doubt it was well known when he applied, so his talent must have had something to do with being hired.

 

 

 

Please stop making this thread about me and posting stuff about me and why I suck.

 

Wow. Just had to quote this.

 

 

 

And anyone saying (paraphrasing) "maybe your work isn't good enough" doesn't mean "[you] suck." Why does everything have to be so ABSOLUTELY black and white? Introduce some gray.

 

I can understand frustration, but this really sounds like bitterness. And your whole approach to the conversation has a "misery loves company" vibe to it.

Please stop making this thread about me. Thanks..

 

You first.

[kav]

Since this continues to be about you, instead of the OP, I'll put this thought out there. Mind you, I'm not trying to be harsh or mean.

 

Is there a chance skill had nothing to do with you not succeeding?

 

Clearly you have talent Kav, but your inability to consider, accept or even acknowledge an opinion other than your own may have been what held you back.

 

Quoted in red in case it was missed the first time.

 

 

I don't know if you know how it works but you submit your work to a publisher with a brief letter 'I am interested in the artist position for your graphic novel. Here is a link to my work'

They reply 'thanks for your submission but that is not the style we are looking for at this time good luck to you'.

The end.

How they could conclude from that 'this guy never sees others opinions-don't hire him' is baffling to me.

 

You're right, it's unlikely they can draw that conclusion from your samples. So it must have been something else.

 

 

as far as 'comparing myself to the giants', I don't know anything about the personalities of third rate artists. I have to use examples I know about. At some point Ditko was not a giant of the industry. He was hired. His personality is pretty well known.

 

His "well known personality" developed over his time in the business, I seriously doubt it was well known when he applied, so his talent must have had something to do with being hired.

 

 

 

Please stop making this thread about me and posting stuff about me and why I suck.

 

Wow. Just had to quote this.

 

 

 

And anyone saying (paraphrasing) "maybe your work isn't good enough" doesn't mean "[you] suck." Why does everything have to be so ABSOLUTELY black and white? Introduce some gray.

 

I can understand frustration, but this really sounds like bitterness. And your whole approach to the conversation has a "misery loves company" vibe to it.

Please stop making this thread about me. Thanks..

 

You first.

I'm not the one complaining about making the thread about me. The ones that are should go first.

 

Here's a break down:

 

Boardie A posts something

Kav replies to the post with his input

Boardie B post no Kav you are wrong

Boardie C posts Kav you don't know what you are talking about

Kav post actually I do know what I am talking about-

Boardies B, C and D then post no you dolt you are wrong etc

 

And we're off.

I have bolded the posts that started making it about 'me'.

[vaillant]

Kav, did you read my posts?

I said which were your valid points, no one denied them.

But you refuse to see every single other facet of possibilities about the question. That is alarming.

 

That is also discouraging…

[vaillant]

And Hado is right: even if one has success, these of Ditko and other artists does not remain a good attitude in general. Not something to admire them, at least.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

this thread is not about me

 

No - it is about Kav

 

Sorry Kav I couldn't help myself

[kav]

I think my main points are valid

You don't have to go to an art school to become a good artist

Painting one picture then deciding to go to art school in Vienna seems impulsive

99.9999% of people who go to art school do not succeed as a painter. The figure may be higher.

The 'follow your dream' advice is overused and may be detrimental.

A large percentage of teenagers dream is to be a rapper. Should they all follow that?

I've heard countless teens say they don't have to do their schoolwork because they're gonna be a rapper/sports star. Following their dream screwed them big time.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I think my main points are valid

You don't have to go to an art school to become a good artist

Painting one picture then deciding to go to art school in Vienna seems impulsive

99.9999% of people who go to art school do not succeed as a painter. The figure may be higher.

The 'follow your dream' advice is overused and may be detrimental.

A large percentage of teenagers dream is to be a rapper. Should they all follow that?

 

Just out of curiosity, would you tell an author not to go to college and study English?

 

Or a welder not to go to college? A cook?

 

Actually I think culinary school is a good example. Having worked in some upscale kitchens growing up, I heard a lot of opinions on culinary school. Many said they made it on their own and made good money now. However, a lot of them got an instant foot in the door because of culinary school. They didn't have to work at the local chain flipping burgers.

 

It had its advantages and disadvantages.

Edited June 2, 2016 by ChrisInBaltimore

[kav]

I think my main points are valid

You don't have to go to an art school to become a good artist

Painting one picture then deciding to go to art school in Vienna seems impulsive

99.9999% of people who go to art school do not succeed as a painter. The figure may be higher.

The 'follow your dream' advice is overused and may be detrimental.

A large percentage of teenagers dream is to be a rapper. Should they all follow that?

 

Just out of curiosity, would you tell an author not to go to college and study English?

 

Or a welder not to go to college? A cook?

 

Actually I think culinary school is a good example. Having worked in some upscale kitchens growing up, I heard a lot of opinions on culinary school. Many said they made it on their own and made good money now. However, a lot of them got an instant foot in the door because of culinary school. They didn't have to work at the local chain flipping burgers.

 

It had its advantages and disadvantages.

If someone cooked one meal then said they are going to Vienna to study culinary arts I would roll my eyes.

[jaybes]

I think my main points are valid

You don't have to go to an art school to become a good artist

Painting one picture then deciding to go to art school in Vienna seems impulsive

99.9999% of people who go to art school do not succeed as a painter. The figure may be higher.

The 'follow your dream' advice is overused and may be detrimental.

A large percentage of teenagers dream is to be a rapper. Should they all follow that?

 

Just out of curiosity, would you tell an author not to go to college and study English?

 

Or a welder not to go to college? A cook?

 

Actually I think culinary school is a good example. Having worked in some upscale kitchens growing up, I heard a lot of opinions on culinary school. Many said they made it on their own and made good money now. However, a lot of them got an instant foot in the door because of culinary school. They didn't have to work at the local chain flipping burgers.

 

It had its advantages and disadvantages.

If someone cooked one meal then said they are going to Vienna to study culinary arts I would roll my eyes.

 

I agree with this logic...but if the meal they cooked was as good as the OPs painting....well that might change things a bit.

[MR SigS]

Since this continues to be about you, instead of the OP, I'll put this thought out there. Mind you, I'm not trying to be harsh or mean.

 

Is there a chance skill had nothing to do with you not succeeding?

 

Clearly you have talent Kav, but your inability to consider, accept or even acknowledge an opinion other than your own may have been what held you back.

 

Quoted in red in case it was missed the first time.

 

 

I don't know if you know how it works but you submit your work to a publisher with a brief letter 'I am interested in the artist position for your graphic novel. Here is a link to my work'

They reply 'thanks for your submission but that is not the style we are looking for at this time good luck to you'.

The end.

How they could conclude from that 'this guy never sees others opinions-don't hire him' is baffling to me.

 

You're right, it's unlikely they can draw that conclusion from your samples. So it must have been something else.

 

 

as far as 'comparing myself to the giants', I don't know anything about the personalities of third rate artists. I have to use examples I know about. At some point Ditko was not a giant of the industry. He was hired. His personality is pretty well known.

 

His "well known personality" developed over his time in the business, I seriously doubt it was well known when he applied, so his talent must have had something to do with being hired.

 

 

 

Please stop making this thread about me and posting stuff about me and why I suck.

 

Wow. Just had to quote this.

 

 

 

And anyone saying (paraphrasing) "maybe your work isn't good enough" doesn't mean "[you] suck." Why does everything have to be so ABSOLUTELY black and white? Introduce some gray.

 

I can understand frustration, but this really sounds like bitterness. And your whole approach to the conversation has a "misery loves company" vibe to it.

Please stop making this thread about me. Thanks..

 

You first.

I'm not the one complaining about making the thread about me. The ones that are should go first.

 

Here's a break down:

 

Boardie A posts something

Kav replies to the post with his input

Boardie B post no Kav you are wrong

Boardie C posts Kav you don't know what you are talking about

Kav post actually I do know what I am talking about-

Boardies B, C and D then post no you dolt you are wrong etc

 

And we're off.

I have bolded the posts that started making it about 'me'.

 

ABSOLUTELY.

[kav]

I'm glad you see it now.

[SquareChaos]

I think my main points are valid

You don't have to go to an art school to become a good artist

Painting one picture then deciding to go to art school in Vienna seems impulsive

99.9999% of people who go to art school do not succeed as a painter. The figure may be higher.

The 'follow your dream' advice is overused and may be detrimental.

A large percentage of teenagers dream is to be a rapper. Should they all follow that?

 

Just out of curiosity, would you tell an author not to go to college and study English?

 

Or a welder not to go to college? A cook?

 

Actually I think culinary school is a good example. Having worked in some upscale kitchens growing up, I heard a lot of opinions on culinary school. Many said they made it on their own and made good money now. However, a lot of them got an instant foot in the door because of culinary school. They didn't have to work at the local chain flipping burgers.

 

It had its advantages and disadvantages.

If someone cooked one meal then said they are going to Vienna to study culinary arts I would roll my eyes.

 

I agree with this logic...but if the meal they cooked was as good as the OPs painting....well that might change things a bit.

 

I almost hate to say ask this question and keep this thread alive long after it should have died but...

 

Why does the supposed quality of the single painting really change anything? What if it was awful? Is it about 'inherent talent' or 'passion'?

 

Seems to me, even if your first painting is a good painting, this would all seem impulsive.

[kav]

exactly

It is a simple side view with no background no shadowing no expression - pretty basic.

Now if it looked like this I would call it great:

[MR SigS]

I think my main points are valid Many valid points in this thread, including yours. You're just not including theirs.

 

You don't have to go to an art school to become a good artist ABSOLUTELY.

 

 

 

Painting one picture then deciding to go to art school in Vienna seems impulsive I missed the post where the OP says the dream started the day he tried painting. Link? Anyway, are you also claiming that following an impulse has never worked, or it never worked for you? It really is hard to tell.

 

 

 

99.9999% of people who go to art school do not succeed as a painter.

 

... maybe he just wants to paint. Nowhere in his original post does he say he wants to become a famous painter so he can make lots of money at it.

Is money the only acceptable reason to want to learn more about painting?

Is money what drives your passion to draw?

 

 

You are totally right - I just want to paint and I want to learn some technical aspekts like MISCHTECHNIK...

READ THE OP's OWN WORDS KAV (assuming they matter to you). YET YOU STILL INSIST HE WILL LEARN NOTHING HELPFUL FROM SCHOOL TO ACHIEVE WHAT HE WANTS.

Sorry for the caps, everyone[else]. It just seems Kav put the OP on ignore.

 

 

 

 

99.9999% of people who go to art school do not succeed as a painter. The figure may be higher. I guess this is progress.

 

 

 

The 'follow your dream' advice is overused and may be detrimental. So may your "ABSOLUTE' advice.

 

 

 

A large percentage of teenagers dream is to be a rapper. Should they all follow that? Should NONE of them? Who decides?

 

 

I've heard countless teens say they don't have to do their schoolwork because they're gonna be a rapper/sports star. Following their dream screwed them big time. Perhaps. Either that or a lack of proper parental guidance.

 

I, for one, am going to encourage and support my grandchildren's dreams. With luck no one will call CPS on me.

 

 

 

 

[kav]

Fair points