Please support me in financing my education - THANKS! 2 2

[Vger7]

Okay... let me spell it out for you. If you didn't like art school, it probably means you didn't fit into that community. You pushed against it so they pushed back. Suddenly, a teacher or fellow student doesn't like you and you don't know why. The result is a negative experience. I've met many people similar to you, who are very skilled but were stuck on the mechanics of art. They couldn't, and wouldn't acknowledge the BS concepts from an art school, because it didn't require any drawing skills. Triangles, squares, stripes, and splashes take seemingly no skill at all... but, it does require an open mind to appreciate what people like Pollack, Riopelle and Jack Bush was trying to accomplish. To these guys, anyone can learn to draw but finding beauty in chaos, order through randomness and the juxtaposition of color had a deeper meaning.

 

I don't know how old you are but there are many paths in front of you. Your talent can reach people in many different ways. And if you are “likeable"... and assuming you can do the job, they will find a way to use you. And if they don't like you... no matter how talented you are, they will find a way to get rid of you. It's just how people are.

 

Most famous people are acutely aware of the need to be liked and so they try very hard to be humble, flexible, inclusive, accepting, gracious and open to criticism. It's all a game. This is why don't see guys like Jim Lee on these boards raking some poor chump over the coals for breaking some unwritten code of comic book ethics. Is Jim Lee the best artist that DC has? NO. But he is likeable and knows how to play the game.

 

You need a public persona and start building relationships. Luck is for people who have no talent. Is this you? People used to say the same thing to me when I was looking for work in advertising. All communities are a clique but I eventually broke in. Once I became a director, I started using the "luck" excuse on young designers so that their feelings wouldn't be hurt.

 

You need a plan of attack, a strategy. Figure out exactly what you want and start walking and talking like the people who've have it so that you blend in. I guarantee this will work.

I did not push against it I cooperated completely. Working as a comic artist you get a -script and you draw it. there is no real socialization involved. I was always flexible. One writer I drew 25 different covers for him till I got it the way he wanted. CP Smith told me he submitted for years-one day an artist dropped out right when he walked in the office-he was hired. It was 'luck'. I need no plan of attack-I have no interest in drawing comics any more. If Marvel contacted me tomorrow I would decline.

There are hundreds of thousands of talented people that want to draw comics. If you think the only thing holding them back is their personality, you are mistaken.

 

That's all fine but let's not get hung up on minutiae. Luck is helpful when you can get it, but you can't rely on it. The point is, if you want something more for your art, it can be achieved. It just requires some “promotional” effort. If you don't want it… that's okay too. I guess if you're retired, you probably want to kick back and take it easy.

 

I think it's cool that you can draw and continue throughout your retirement, instead of ending up on a cruise ship.

[kav]

Okay... let me spell it out for you. If you didn't like art school, it probably means you didn't fit into that community. You pushed against it so they pushed back. Suddenly, a teacher or fellow student doesn't like you and you don't know why. The result is a negative experience. I've met many people similar to you, who are very skilled but were stuck on the mechanics of art. They couldn't, and wouldn't acknowledge the BS concepts from an art school, because it didn't require any drawing skills. Triangles, squares, stripes, and splashes take seemingly no skill at all... but, it does require an open mind to appreciate what people like Pollack, Riopelle and Jack Bush was trying to accomplish. To these guys, anyone can learn to draw but finding beauty in chaos, order through randomness and the juxtaposition of color had a deeper meaning.

 

I don't know how old you are but there are many paths in front of you. Your talent can reach people in many different ways. And if you are “likeable"... and assuming you can do the job, they will find a way to use you. And if they don't like you... no matter how talented you are, they will find a way to get rid of you. It's just how people are.

 

Most famous people are acutely aware of the need to be liked and so they try very hard to be humble, flexible, inclusive, accepting, gracious and open to criticism. It's all a game. This is why don't see guys like Jim Lee on these boards raking some poor chump over the coals for breaking some unwritten code of comic book ethics. Is Jim Lee the best artist that DC has? NO. But he is likeable and knows how to play the game.

 

You need a public persona and start building relationships. Luck is for people who have no talent. Is this you? People used to say the same thing to me when I was looking for work in advertising. All communities are a clique but I eventually broke in. Once I became a director, I started using the "luck" excuse on young designers so that their feelings wouldn't be hurt.

 

You need a plan of attack, a strategy. Figure out exactly what you want and start walking and talking like the people who've have it so that you blend in. I guarantee this will work.

I did not push against it I cooperated completely. Working as a comic artist you get a -script and you draw it. there is no real socialization involved. I was always flexible. One writer I drew 25 different covers for him till I got it the way he wanted. CP Smith told me he submitted for years-one day an artist dropped out right when he walked in the office-he was hired. It was 'luck'. I need no plan of attack-I have no interest in drawing comics any more. If Marvel contacted me tomorrow I would decline.

There are hundreds of thousands of talented people that want to draw comics. If you think the only thing holding them back is their personality, you are mistaken.

 

That's all fine but let's not get hung up on minutiae. Luck is helpful when you can get it, but you can't rely on it. The point is, if you want something more for your art, it can be achieved. It just requires some “promotional” effort. If you don't want it… that's okay too. I guess if you're retired, you probably want to kick back and take it easy.

 

I think it's cool that you can draw and continue throughout your retirement, instead of ending up on a cruise ship.

yep

Ps the amount of promotional effort I put forth was truly staggering.

[Hado]

If it was truly his 'dream' to be a painter, wouldn't he have painted more than one picture?

People have the oddest idea of 'dream' these days, maybe from watching American Idol.

I'd like to make fine furniture. Haven't built a single secretary's desk out of fine wild olive burl with brass and mother of pearl inlays yet

Have you been sharpening your carpentry skill all this time though building simple tables chairs etc or did you just wake up one day and say 'I'd like to build fine furniture. I think I'll go to Vienna to study furniture building'?

 

Here's the indications someone has a 'dream'-they spend at least 8 hours a day pursuing it, for many years. My dream lasted 30 years. never panned out.

 

But we aren't talking about you, are we? This is a thread about someone else.

 

Incorrect.

[CAHokie]

Hado!

 

I feel like I haven't seen you around in a while.

[Hado]

Hado!

 

I feel like I haven't seen you around in a while.

 

Just lurking.

 

[bronze_rules]

yep

Ps the amount of promotional effort I put forth was truly staggering.

 

Reminds me of a professor I had in screenwriting at UCLA. He told us there is a graveyard of talented screenwriters that have produced screenplays that will never see the light of day. He was a screenwriter for some Star Trek TNG episodes and told us several stories of things he had to do to get his -script read and foot in the door ( baking cakes/pies, designing large visual gimmicks, stalking talent agents, etc..). And if you just try to send in a screenplay to talent agencies, you get a returned mail with unsolicited mail not accepted.

 

On the other hand, I once decided I was going to go back to my drawing roots and just showed up at an art show in SF, and asked a recruiter for a really famous 3D animation company to allow me to pitch my talent. He actually invited me back to the studio (James Cameron's in Santa Monica) to get interviewed. My portfolio at the time was a joke, and they gently told me I should go to art school and get a real grounding in professional level work. They were nice enough to show me a room sized model of the Titanic as they were filming it (literally sitting in a basin of water), and various animated video works they were doing.

 

It's really nice to hear your story and see the drawings you posted. Adds a lot of (good) dimension to your online persona.

[kav]

And I'm not bitter at all please don't misunderstand. It's a tough biz and that's the way it works. I have made hundreds if not thousands of people happy with my drawings and that is very satisfying.

I just see so many young people that have follow your dreamitis. Everyone thinks they are going to be a rapper or an artist poet whatever.

If you watch American Idol they ask every contestant 'why should you be the next American Idol?'

The answer is always the same: 'Because I really want it'.

 

[CAHokie]

I'm glad I took the chances I did when I was younger to achieve my dreams. If I would have listened to what every one else told me I would be making a fifth of what I do now, and would have missed out on some exciting things. You have to follow your heart in these situations, right or wrong. Better than living with what ifs.

[oakman29]

To the OP. Do what makes you feel good. Art, like life has an ebb and flow to it. I myself never went to an institution for art,. Sometimes it's just a perspective thing, but it's ever changing.

Here's a piece of my work, so you know I'm not talking out my azz.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2016 by oakman29

[Dano]

I'm glad I took the chances I did when I was younger to achieve my dreams. If I would have listened to what every one else told me I would be making a fifth of what I do now, and would have missed out on some exciting things. You have to follow your heart in these situations, right or wrong. Better than living with what ifs.

 

Yup. No regrets!

 

Dan

[DavidTheDavid]

Fourteen pages of presumption. This thread has so much wrong in it.

[dupont2005]

Van Gogh is cemented in history, as well being the definition of “starving artist”. I'd say that kind of posterity is pretty EPIC, even though he struggled in life.

 

Your work is only part of the package. I don't know you so I can't say jack but as it is with these boards, sometimes the trick is fitting in.

Actually I spoke to comic artist CP Smith-he said it's pure luck-being available right when they need someone.

just a coincidence that many comics pros went to the Kubert school

 

http://www.kubertschool.edu/alumni.html

[dupont2005]

Doing something because you love it and it brings you joy is a much different conversation when you are talking about spending 70K on it and you expect it to be your source of income.

lets not forget that included in this 70k is boarding and living expenses for three years. It's not just the cost of tuition.

 

Now, how well do you get by on 23k a year? You know even if he doesn't ship off to Vienna to attend art school, he's still going to have living expenses. Spend 20k living in an artistic Mecca rubbing shoulders with tomorrow's great artists, learn from masters and immerse yourself in your trade? Spend 20k living in a roach infested studio in Oxnard rubbing shoulders with the cashier at Best Buy wondering what could have been?

[Doohickamabob]

Oh..Vienna? This means nothing to me

It stays with me until.

[kav]

OP isn't listening to any of us-he just wanted a CG link to his sales thread....

[oakman29]

OP isn't listening to any of us-he just wanted a CG link to his sales thread....

 

 

I hear there's alot of that these days.

[kav]

I must be an old codger. Some young whippersnapper completes one painting and he's off to art school in Vienna and everyone's saying great! Good job! and all I can do is shake my head....

[Mercurius]

 

Wow, what's going on here? Just WOW and Thanks for all the comments!! That is exactley what I've needed!! THANKS!

 

My intention with this thread wasn't just to get some extra pub for my sales thread, NO I also hoped to get some feedback, because I had the same thoughts like Kav, but I couldn't make a decision. This thread helps me to qualify my decision. I wont spend three years on an art school. - I think 1-2 trimesters with the right teacher will be enough to learn some important technical aspects. - Knowing this has something liberating!!

 

I visited a workshop in Vienna at the visionary art academy - Alex and Allyson Grey were there. 20 students, lovely people, Vienna a majestic city, I just loved the community - wonderful days. Each trimester there are different teachers and you can learn a lot.

 

I also was in Florence - this city is stunning. There I visited a very prestigious academy. The students learn so much - after two years they paint like the old masters. For me, this training would be a base . A base with which I could develop myself. It is not easy to learn everything himself...

 

So actually I want to expand my technical knowledge and I miss a good community... it's a bit boring doing art alone.

 

About my person:

 

I am 32 years young.

I studied pedagogy with a focus on psychology, psychoanalysis and psychotherapy .

I work in psychological councelling office for drug addicted people. (just 20hours per week... I do not deserve so much money , but it's enough to live and that I can save me something .

I also have a training in tourism... and I also studied philosophy and philology

 

My heart beats for art and I will definitely enhance my technical skills in painting.

 

I think if I attend just one year - it will be a good investment.

 

yep, thats it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2016 by Mercurius

[kav]

[kav]

If you feel you cannot accomplish it on your own like Mr Frazetta, I guess the school might be right for you. You may return and wish to get your old job back and find things have dried up and there's no money to be made in painting-as long as you are prepared for that.