Significant Comic Art Auction at Profiles in History 30 July 2016

[cstojano]

I am following the Frazetta lots myself, most a disaster here. Heritage already seems to have decent action on several of their lots but today was somewhat of a surprise when the Doc Dave auctions seemed to do so well. I'd prefer a low opening bid with hidden reserve to what we saw today.

 

For the Frazetta items I am of the mindset that with the collection split we will be seeing a lot more of this stuff come to market. The two oils today were nice but not when you think/know the marquee pieces may be for sale privately.

[delekkerste]

If I was ten years younger and still single, I would have bought that spectacular BWS Artemis & Apollo piece. I liked it better than the two Frazettas that were displayed along with it at the SDCC. Passed at $120K hammer ($144K with the juice)? I'd much rather own that one than some of the overrated and overvalued comic art that's been selling for $150K+ of late (examples withheld to avoid public outcry).

 

Unfortunately, my wife would make my life a living hell if I bought any of those 3 pieces.

 

Also, I guess the TAR removal didn't help the BWS lots much.

[comix4fun]

If I was ten years younger and still single, I would have bought that spectacular BWS Artemis & Apollo piece. I liked it better than the two Frazettas that were displayed along with it at the SDCC. Passed at $120K hammer ($144K with the juice)? I'd much rather own that one than some of the overrated and overvalued comic art that's been selling for $150K+ of late (examples withheld to avoid public outcry).

 

Unfortunately, my wife would make my life a living hell if I bought any of those 3 pieces.

 

 

 

[Bronty]

Collectors would rather decide what something's worth for themselves, than be told what it's worth. With all the lots starting at minimums that were (at least) FMV, any bid above that feels like an overpay.

 

But with so many like items, there was no choice but to set minimums to cover their asses.

 

Agree re the high minimums. I mean the Sea Witch was a million as a minimum? Ouch.

 

I think they would have don't better to spread the quality stuff over two auctions and drop the high reserves

[Mmehdy]

This really was not an auction..sort of a catalog sale or gallery sale..pretending to be...

[Bronty]

Pretty much.

[DeadpoolJr.]

I really liked the Spiderman splash, and saw it only sold at its minimum bid, which I really considered, but couldn't do because of the premiums, and something I like more that's coming up. I was honestly hoping that this auction did well since it might of gave me less competition at the Heritage auction, but I guess it could also be what Nexus said as a beginning of a market correction, which I wouldn't mind. Though I think that is only one out of many possibilities, and could see these auction results being for a variety of factors other than market correction.

[Nexus]

I really liked the Spiderman splash, and saw it only sold at its minimum bid, which I really considered, but couldn't do because of the premiums, and something I like more that's coming up. I was honestly hoping that this auction did well since it might of gave me less competition at the Heritage auction, but I guess it could also be what Nexus said as a beginning of a market correction, which I wouldn't mind. Though I think that is only one out of many possibilities, and could see these auction results being for a variety of factors other than market correction.

 

Just to clarify, I DON'T really believe today's results are an indication of a market correction. I do believe other factors are responsible. I expect HA to chug along. But if it doesn't? Then let's revisit the correction talk...

[Mmehdy]

I really liked the Spiderman splash, and saw it only sold at its minimum bid, which I really considered, but couldn't do because of the premiums, and something I like more that's coming up. I was honestly hoping that this auction did well since it might of gave me less competition at the Heritage auction, but I guess it could also be what Nexus said as a beginning of a market correction, which I wouldn't mind. Though I think that is only one out of many possibilities, and could see these auction results being for a variety of factors other than market correction.

 

Just to clarify, I DON'T really believe today's results are an indication of a market correction. I do believe other factors are responsible. I expect HA to chug along. But if it doesn't? Then let's revisit the correction talk...

 

3 major factors led to decline and non-sale..too much of a good thing from the major artists, lack of skill in auctioning this type of material compared to ha, and way too high minimum bids which killed interest in the auction..I expect ha to do fine...

[Bronty]

The sea witch minimum was 300k more than any auction sale for US comic related art has closed at (!) ; for perspective. Of course the consignor may have demanded a high reserve

[Peter G]

I really liked the Spiderman splash, and saw it only sold at its minimum bid, which I really considered, but couldn't do because of the premiums, and something I like more that's coming up. I was honestly hoping that this auction did well since it might of gave me less competition at the Heritage auction, but I guess it could also be what Nexus said as a beginning of a market correction, which I wouldn't mind. Though I think that is only one out of many possibilities, and could see these auction results being for a variety of factors other than market correction.

 

Just to clarify, I DON'T really believe today's results are an indication of a market correction. I do believe other factors are responsible. I expect HA to chug along. But if it doesn't? Then let's revisit the correction talk...

 

3 major factors led to decline and non-sale..too much of a good thing from the major artists, lack of skill in auctioning this type of material compared to ha, and way too high minimum bids which killed interest in the auction..I expect ha to do fine...

 

+1

 

Profiles just doesn't have the reach that HA does. Their experience marketing comic OA is questionable. I give them credit for trying though.

 

 

[delekkerste]

3 major factors led to decline and non-sale..too much of a good thing from the major artists, lack of skill in auctioning this type of material compared to ha, and way too high minimum bids which killed interest in the auction..I expect ha to do fine...

 

I think the big problem was that the combination of high minimum bids, no price discovery until the live bidding session, and the 28% BP from bidding online killed any price momentum the lots might otherwise have had. If PIH continues to operate in this space (and I hope they do), they desperately need to build out their own online bidding platform for several reasons: (1) nobody wants to pay an extra 8% BP to Invaluable; (2) there's no price discovery on Invaluable until the live auction - people can put in bids prior to the live auction, but others won't see what's happening to the price; and (3) there's too many logistical hurdles from using Invaluable - people want to see what's happening with prices and the lots they're tracking and have the flexibility to throw in last minute bids and stuff all on the auction house's own platform.

 

Even if there are a lot of reserves, people have become used to seeing how bidding evolves from a $1 starting bid in the comic art auction space. I think the high minimum bids and the lack of transparency from Invaluable (plus having to pay them a lot more) just turned a lot of people off. I ended up leaving an absentee bid to cut out Invaluable (BP = 20% instead of 28% that way). But, I also ended up only bidding on one lot as a result, whereas if all the lots had started at $1 (even if reserves kicked in later), I probably would have put in tracking bids on 50-75 lots and probably would have been more involved with the bidding.

[Nexus]

I really liked the Spiderman splash, and saw it only sold at its minimum bid, which I really considered, but couldn't do because of the premiums, and something I like more that's coming up. I was honestly hoping that this auction did well since it might of gave me less competition at the Heritage auction, but I guess it could also be what Nexus said as a beginning of a market correction, which I wouldn't mind. Though I think that is only one out of many possibilities, and could see these auction results being for a variety of factors other than market correction.

 

Just to clarify, I DON'T really believe today's results are an indication of a market correction. I do believe other factors are responsible. I expect HA to chug along. But if it doesn't? Then let's revisit the correction talk...

 

3 major factors led to decline and non-sale..too much of a good thing from the major artists, lack of skill in auctioning this type of material compared to ha, and way too high minimum bids which killed interest in the auction..I expect ha to do fine...

 

+1

 

Profiles just doesn't have the reach that HA does. Their experience marketing comic OA is questionable. I give them credit for trying though.

 

 

It probably didn't help that someone associated with Profiles had this to say about the OA market:

 

It's all a big game of "hot potato" guys...the investors that

artificially are driving up prices now are all hoping to be the ones

who sell just before the bubble bursts, and mark my words folks, the

bubble WILL burst at some point in the not so distant future...

 

Readership is way, way down, and comic art collecting is a hobby based

on nostalgia. As the last of us original "readers" get older and want

to retire (or pay for kids college, etc), and decide that our

collections are of lesser "priority" in life, we also will sell our

collections at a time when there will be no new buyers to sell to...

 

Many of the true collectors are already priced out of the market and

more will soon be.

 

Learn from the lessons of the past folks:

When cowboy collectibles, premium rings, etc etc got hot for a period

of time, it was only to those who had grown up with the stuff, same as

WE collectors are the last ones who grew up reading comics...

Lesson learned: what goes up, must come down when the true collectors

are not the buyers anymore.

 

I always said, buy what you like, as when it is all worthless you'll

still enjoy it.

 

Given today's results, a self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

[Peter G]

I really liked the Spiderman splash, and saw it only sold at its minimum bid, which I really considered, but couldn't do because of the premiums, and something I like more that's coming up. I was honestly hoping that this auction did well since it might of gave me less competition at the Heritage auction, but I guess it could also be what Nexus said as a beginning of a market correction, which I wouldn't mind. Though I think that is only one out of many possibilities, and could see these auction results being for a variety of factors other than market correction.

 

Just to clarify, I DON'T really believe today's results are an indication of a market correction. I do believe other factors are responsible. I expect HA to chug along. But if it doesn't? Then let's revisit the correction talk...

 

3 major factors led to decline and non-sale..too much of a good thing from the major artists, lack of skill in auctioning this type of material compared to ha, and way too high minimum bids which killed interest in the auction..I expect ha to do fine...

 

+1

 

Profiles just doesn't have the reach that HA does. Their experience marketing comic OA is questionable. I give them credit for trying though.

 

 

It probably didn't help that someone associated with Profiles had this to say about the OA market:

 

It's all a big game of "hot potato" guys...the investors that

artificially are driving up prices now are all hoping to be the ones

who sell just before the bubble bursts, and mark my words folks, the

bubble WILL burst at some point in the not so distant future...

 

Readership is way, way down, and comic art collecting is a hobby based

on nostalgia. As the last of us original "readers" get older and want

to retire (or pay for kids college, etc), and decide that our

collections are of lesser "priority" in life, we also will sell our

collections at a time when there will be no new buyers to sell to...

 

Many of the true collectors are already priced out of the market and

more will soon be.

 

Learn from the lessons of the past folks:

When cowboy collectibles, premium rings, etc etc got hot for a period

of time, it was only to those who had grown up with the stuff, same as

WE collectors are the last ones who grew up reading comics...

Lesson learned: what goes up, must come down when the true collectors

are not the buyers anymore.

 

I always said, buy what you like, as when it is all worthless you'll

still enjoy it.

 

Given today's results, a self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

 

Very Foolish Comment

[delekkerste]

The sea witch minimum was 300k more than any auction sale for US comic related art has closed at (!) ; for perspective. Of course the consignor may have demanded a high reserve

 

This is like the "Tyranny of the Shoulds". People see high prices on some stuff, and extrapolate that to everything else, e.g., "If the Hulk #180 first Wolverine page is $657K, then all the better Frazettas should be $1 million or more!" It's also why stuff like the X-Men #113 cover has gone from being offered at $150K (with no takers) 2 years ago to $250K today (with no takers), because, if the better Byrne covers are now theoretically $350-$500K+, then surely the average cover should be $200-$250K, no? Alas, the reality is that there simply aren't buyers at that level for X-Men #113 (and a number of other Byrne X-Men covers) or for a lot of these Frazettas at the prices people think should be prevailing. There's theory and then there's empirical reality. Just because some Frazetta Conan paintings (arguably his very best known) sold for $1-$1.5 million (I'm also aware of some other 7-figure private sales) doesn't mean that there's necessarily a $1 million buyer for Sea Witch or a $500K buyer for Bran Mak Morn. And there's a lot more Frazetta paintings that probably comp well vs. those two that probably also aren't going to fetch that kind of money - these are big numbers we are talking about and there are only so many potential buyers.

[robert frey]

I don't know but i will say this........ i won the BWS "Fire" piece. HA had a piece from that same portfolio, the Wind piece, sell at 14k+ 4 years ago. For me, to get something very, very comparable at 70% of the price... well, who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth? Profiles possibly did not present these pieces as well as they could or should have but even with the high opening bid, this is LESS than what it would have went for on HA.

[Bird]

I don't know but i will say this........ i won the BWS "Fire" piece. HA had a piece from that same portfolio, the Wind piece, sell at 14k+ 4 years ago. For me, to get something very, very comparable at 70% of the price... well, who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth? Profiles possibly did not present these pieces as well as they could or should have but even with the high opening bid, this is LESS than what it would have went for on HA.

 

Nice pickup. I was showing my eldest daughter the BWS paintings and she gasped when she saw this one. Great piece and I think you did well.

 

 

[delekkerste]

I don't know but i will say this........ i won the BWS "Fire" piece. HA had a piece from that same portfolio, the Wind piece, sell at 14k+ 4 years ago. For me, to get something very, very comparable at 70% of the price... well, who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth? Profiles possibly did not present these pieces as well as they could or should have but even with the high opening bid, this is LESS than what it would have went for on HA.

 

That's a really nice piece.

 

I actually liked the BWS pieces the best at the Profiles display at the SDCC.

[tfish]

Steal of the auction LOT 111

 

Red Sonja prelims

[delekkerste]

Anyway, I'm that the Profiles auction didn't do better. They really had an incredible display at the SDCC and I think this was one of the most assemblages of art that we've seen in the modern comic/illustration art auction era (which I date from the first Heritage comic auction in 2001; all the Sotheby's, Christie's, Guernsey's and Russ Cochran sales from the '80s and '90s was from a different era, IMO).

 

I hope they persevere and that they learn from this sale and come back stronger.