Significant Comic Art Auction at Profiles in History 30 July 2016

[RICKYBOBBY]

In my mind I think there were some people itching to spend some cash but it's pretty hard when some minimum bids are ridiculously high. I think since this wasn't a real auction, people were more reserved. Like someone mentioned this was more of a "buy it now" catalogue sale.

For example, how much action do you really expect on a Romita comission starting at 4 k + 28% bp?.. Kind of a joke..

 

[Taylor G]

If PIH continues to operate in this space (and I hope they do), they desperately need to build out their own online bidding platform for several reasons: (1) nobody wants to pay an extra 8% BP to Invaluable; (2) there's no price discovery on Invaluable until the live auction - people can put in bids prior to the live auction, but others won't see what's happening to the price; and (3) there's too many logistical hurdles from using Invaluable - people want to see what's happening with prices and the lots they're tracking and have the flexibility to throw in last minute bids and stuff all on the auction house's own platform.

 

With respect, I don't agree with this. You are underestimating the time and expense of developing a platform like Heritage's. It would take years and millions of dollars. The Invaluable platform looks okay to me -- I could see bids that people had placed in advance, you can have the system show you the price including BP, my biggest complaint is that you cannot disable bidding. It is far superior to the Mom'n'Pop platforms that CL and CC offer

 

If the 8% for Invaluable is putting people off, PIH may have to eat that cost to stay competitive with HA. But they offer the option of absentee or phone bidding to avoid that cost, admittedly it's a bit clumsy, maybe they can build out the phone bidding option to allow people to notify them in real time that they want to bid. People can still follow on Invaluable while bidding by telephone (until Invaluable gets wise and pulls the plug).

 

My most cynical take on this would be that this may unfortunately validate the business model of de-emphasizing reserves in favor of shill bidding. Not saying anyone is doing that, mind....

[mtlevy]

I don't know but i will say this........ i won the BWS "Fire" piece. HA had a piece from that same portfolio, the Wind piece, sell at 14k+ 4 years ago. For me, to get something very, very comparable at 70% of the price... well, who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth? Profiles possibly did not present these pieces as well as they could or should have but even with the high opening bid, this is LESS than what it would have went for on HA.

 

Nice pickup. I was showing my eldest daughter the BWS paintings and she gasped when she saw this one. Great piece and I think you did well.

 

 

Saw "Fire" at SDDC - has a lot of presence!

 

Not the strongest results but The Gorblimey Press stuff sold - hoping those Cygnus pencils show up for less dinero sometime in the future.

 

I was the underbidder on the Chalk Portrait so whoever won it, please thank me for bowing out!

[drdroom]

I really liked the Spiderman splash, and saw it only sold at its minimum bid, which I really considered, but couldn't do because of the premiums, and something I like more that's coming up. I was honestly hoping that this auction did well since it might of gave me less competition at the Heritage auction, but I guess it could also be what Nexus said as a beginning of a market correction, which I wouldn't mind. Though I think that is only one out of many possibilities, and could see these auction results being for a variety of factors other than market correction.

 

Just to clarify, I DON'T really believe today's results are an indication of a market correction. I do believe other factors are responsible. I expect HA to chug along. But if it doesn't? Then let's revisit the correction talk...

 

3 major factors led to decline and non-sale..too much of a good thing from the major artists, lack of skill in auctioning this type of material compared to ha, and way too high minimum bids which killed interest in the auction..I expect ha to do fine...

 

+1

 

Profiles just doesn't have the reach that HA does. Their experience marketing comic OA is questionable. I give them credit for trying though.

 

 

It probably didn't help that someone associated with Profiles had this to say about the OA market:

 

It's all a big game of "hot potato" guys...the investors that

artificially are driving up prices now are all hoping to be the ones

who sell just before the bubble bursts, and mark my words folks, the

bubble WILL burst at some point in the not so distant future...

 

Readership is way, way down, and comic art collecting is a hobby based

on nostalgia. As the last of us original "readers" get older and want

to retire (or pay for kids college, etc), and decide that our

collections are of lesser "priority" in life, we also will sell our

collections at a time when there will be no new buyers to sell to...

 

Many of the true collectors are already priced out of the market and

more will soon be.

 

Learn from the lessons of the past folks:

When cowboy collectibles, premium rings, etc etc got hot for a period

of time, it was only to those who had grown up with the stuff, same as

WE collectors are the last ones who grew up reading comics...

Lesson learned: what goes up, must come down when the true collectors

are not the buyers anymore.

 

I always said, buy what you like, as when it is all worthless you'll

still enjoy it.

 

Given today's results, a self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

 

Very Foolish Comment

 

Is it true that readership is way, way down? When I was a kid bookstores didn't sell comics. Now the GN section is enormous.

 

[J.Sid]

Pass..... Pass... Pass....

 

Unfortunately the only adjustment PIH made after the Frazetta auction was to put higher opening bids on things so they wouldn't get wholesaled. We all saw the downside it this strategy play out today, and it wasn't pretty. After going 0-for-2 today, I don't know how many more people will be excited to consign. I guess the HC catalogues are cool, but

 

People knew about the auction. Awareness wasn't a problem.

 

A few things that need fixing:

1. Bidding: Make it easy to sign up. Make it easy to see how much we are bidding. We are lazy and spoiled because HA and CLink and eBay are so simple and clear.

 

2. Better analysis of values. People griped about the high starting prices beforehand, and they were right. Could just be me, but I thought it was embarrassing how many things went unsold. Maybe try using reserves. At the very least, if someone sees a vintage Wrightson sitting at $1,200 RNM they will register to bid thinking they might have a chance. IMO you need more people registered.

 

3. Re-opening lots 10 minutes after they close needs to stop. We are all suspicious about what's going on behind your curtains.

 

[drdroom]

If the lot closed with no bids, then who cares if they reopen it? It's just like someone making a post-auction buy, with a little added drama.

[ThothAmon]

Can't speak for all the pricing but I do know the Krenkel piece was overpriced by at least $500 and more likely $1000 or more. It was beautiful and I would have loved to own it but not at that starting price.

[Mmehdy]

I really liked the Spiderman splash, and saw it only sold at its minimum bid, which I really considered, but couldn't do because of the premiums, and something I like more that's coming up. I was honestly hoping that this auction did well since it might of gave me less competition at the Heritage auction, but I guess it could also be what Nexus said as a beginning of a market correction, which I wouldn't mind. Though I think that is only one out of many possibilities, and could see these auction results being for a variety of factors other than market correction.

 

Just to clarify, I DON'T really believe today's results are an indication of a market correction. I do believe other factors are responsible. I expect HA to chug along. But if it doesn't? Then let's revisit the correction talk...

 

3 major factors led to decline and non-sale..too much of a good thing from the major artists, lack of skill in auctioning this type of material compared to ha, and way too high minimum bids which killed interest in the auction..I expect ha to do fine...

 

+1

 

Profiles just doesn't have the reach that HA does. Their experience marketing comic OA is questionable. I give them credit for trying though.

 

 

It probably didn't help that someone associated with Profiles had this to say about the OA market:

 

It's all a big game of "hot potato" guys...the investors that

artificially are driving up prices now are all hoping to be the ones

who sell just before the bubble bursts, and mark my words folks, the

bubble WILL burst at some point in the not so distant future...

 

Readership is way, way down, and comic art collecting is a hobby based

on nostalgia. As the last of us original "readers" get older and want

to retire (or pay for kids college, etc), and decide that our

collections are of lesser "priority" in life, we also will sell our

collections at a time when there will be no new buyers to sell to...

 

Many of the true collectors are already priced out of the market and

more will soon be.

 

Learn from the lessons of the past folks:

When cowboy collectibles, premium rings, etc etc got hot for a period

of time, it was only to those who had grown up with the stuff, same as

WE collectors are the last ones who grew up reading comics...

Lesson learned: what goes up, must come down when the true collectors

are not the buyers anymore.

 

I always said, buy what you like, as when it is all worthless you'll

still enjoy it.

 

Given today's results, a self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

 

I am very shocked by the above statement.

 

This is my reaction to it...

 

1-it does not surprise me this company is going for the "short run" in OA auction process..that is they will no way try to put or challenge ha.com or any other serious company..just dump as much as you can, as quickly as you can...well they learned today the hard way today...and if they keep the same method..it is gonna be worse next time.

 

2-nothing lasts forever, I agree..our children's children however will still know about superman and batman....that is for sure, yes paper comic books will be replaced..big deal

 

3-the OA market is not a "meat" market...we are real collectors who appreciate fine art and just because its related to comic books does not mean that is gonna go down in value..I think its gonna go up as the world learns to appreciate it more with this wonderful expansion thru movies, tv and other platforms.

 

4- "Learn from the lessons from the past" I suggest you follow your own advice...

[Peter G]

Are there more auctions tomorrow ? I see lots of auction lots skipped today. I assumed there is more tomorrow but kinda confused actually.

[delekkerste]

With respect, I don't agree with this. You are underestimating the time and expense of developing a platform like Heritage's. It would take years and millions of dollars. The Invaluable platform looks okay to me -- I could see bids that people had placed in advance, you can have the system show you the price including BP, my biggest complaint is that you cannot disable bidding. It is far superior to the Mom'n'Pop platforms that CL and CC offer

 

If the 8% for Invaluable is putting people off, PIH may have to eat that cost to stay competitive with HA. But they offer the option of absentee or phone bidding to avoid that cost, admittedly it's a bit clumsy, maybe they can build out the phone bidding option to allow people to notify them in real time that they want to bid. People can still follow on Invaluable while bidding by telephone (until Invaluable gets wise and pulls the plug).

 

My most cynical take on this would be that this may unfortunately validate the business model of de-emphasizing reserves in favor of shill bidding. Not saying anyone is doing that, mind....

 

It doesn't have to be a platform as sophisticated as Heritage's - even something as rudimentary as CC's platform would be a game-changer vs. what they have now, and something like the CL platform would be more than acceptable. People want to use a platform where it's easy to sign up (not with a third party like Invaluable). People want transparency and to be able to see price discovery unfold before the live auction, just as it does on HA, CL, CC and eBay. People don't want to pay 28% to be able to bid online (and Invaluable does not have real-time price discovery for the 2-3 weeks leading up to the live auction) or to have to resort to 20th century methods (phone, FAX) to get the 20% (and the latter certainly isn't conducive to bidding early, often or on many lots).

 

Awareness was not an issue for this auction - people definitely knew about it. The catalogs were not an issue - they were first-rate. The amazing, best-in-show display at the SDCC was obviously not an issue. The material itself was not an issue - it was an outstanding assemblage of art. The issue was that it was harder and more expensive to bid online than vs. any competing comic art auction website because of the lack of an in-house bidding platform that keeps the BP to 20% or less and because of the high minimums. I am metaphysically certain that both of these factors caused many potential bidders to bid less or not at all.

 

And if domestic bidders thought it was too much of a hassle, you can bet your bottom euro that foreign bidders were even more likely to stay home. I have foreign collector friends who largely stay away from ComicLink because of the closing time of their auctions; people like that aren't going to fax in absentee bids and probably aren't going to want to bother with the hassle of late night phone bids either, thus leaving paying an unpalatable 28% BP by going through Invaluable as their lone option. I bet a lot of these bidders either stayed away or bid tepidly vs. what they otherwise might have on a user-friendly, in-house bidding platform.

[BCarter27]

The registration was confusing -- ebay, PIH, Invaluable, phone, fax, fees. Agh!

 

Rob Pistella had mentioned that phone bids would be the cheapest method, but I hadn't realized that the online methods would be so confusing. I hate the pressure of phone bids. And absentee bids... why bother? If I don't care enough about a piece to watch the action and decide on the spot to at least put in a cut bid, then I must not really want it.

 

No price discovery and minimums that were too stout. No blood in the water.

 

I had three pieces eye-balled. One was a true grail. One I liked upon seeing it in person. Two of the three passed. Hopefully, they show up again later for FMV.

 

Still, it was an amazing batch of art!

[Bronty]

I can only speak for myself; I wasn't seriously interested in anything but I did try to sign up and gave up about twenty seconds in.

[delekkerste]

After the Frankie plate sold for ~$95K in the last Heritage sale, I know some were saying that they thought the market on the published plates was now basically $100K-up, but we had two published plates in this sale that fell well short of that mark. I think it's pretty much the consensus belief that pre-#100 Romita Spidey covers are all $100K-up as well, but the #81 cover didn't find a buyer at sub-$100K. And, given some recent strong Frazetta sales, I think there's the belief that all the best ones are $1 million-up now, but Sea Witch didn't find a buyer there.

 

Just some food for thought. I think a lot of myths - and they are myths - like these have been perpetuated by those with vested interests in the underlying material (The Cabal as well as fans/owners of this art).

[delekkerste]

Well, now that the auction is over, which pieces were everyone's favorites?

 

Mine were:

 

BWS - Apollo & Artemis painting

BWS - Opus 2 Cover (Young Knight in the Garden of a Sphinx)

Jones - King Kong painting

Kaluta - Curse of the Crimson God illustration

Wrightson - Swamp Thing #4 Cover

 

Loved the Frankenstein plates too - they're beautiful, though none were really top-tier examples.

[glendgold]

Could someone explain how that Eisner cover sold for 65K? I love Eisner, but I think that's something like 5-7X market, if not more.

[stinkininkin]

Not gonna lie. I COMPLETELY forgot this was today! I had a rough deadline post SDCC and then I've been traveling and just got home a few hours ago. Would someone be so kind as to post hammer prices? Particularly curious about the Wrightson Werewolf splash I used to own, the House of Mystery cover and, well, all of it! I'd appreciate any and all postings. And yes, that Swampthing cover price seems like an incredible bargain!

 

Scott

[delekkerste]

Not gonna lie. I COMPLETELY forgot this was today! I had a rough deadline post SDCC and then I've been traveling and just got home a few hours ago. Would someone be so kind as to post hammer prices? Particularly curious about the Wrightson Werewolf splash I used to own, the House of Mystery cover and, well, all of it! I'd appreciate any and all postings. And yes, that Swampthing cover price seems like an incredible bargain!

 

Scott

 

House of Mystery: reserve not met

Swamp Thing #4 cover: $60K hammer ($72K w/20% juice)

Swamp Thing werewolf splash: $60K hammer ($72K w/20% juice)

 

[stinkininkin]

Not gonna lie. I COMPLETELY forgot this was today! I had a rough deadline post SDCC and then I've been traveling and just got home a few hours ago. Would someone be so kind as to post hammer prices? Particularly curious about the Wrightson Werewolf splash I used to own, the House of Mystery cover and, well, all of it! I'd appreciate any and all postings. And yes, that Swampthing cover price seems like an incredible bargain!

 

Scott

 

House of Mystery: reserve not met

Swamp Thing #4 cover: $60K hammer ($72K w/20% juice)

Swamp Thing werewolf splash: $60K hammer ($72K w/20% juice)

 

Thanks Gene. Just saw that there is another thread that looks to have more prices and reactions. Off to peruse it now...

 

Scott

[BCarter27]

Very strong price on the Opus 2 cover. Beautiful.

 

Some other favs-

Wrightson lot 49 (woman enveloped by vampires)... stunning inking on this page. Channeling JC Coll, methinks.

Jones Monster Men painting... haunting

Smith Conan Saga 4

Vess pieces.. great examples

Kaluta Fallen Angel 17... underrated piece at a fair price.

 

And Sea Witch is still one of my favorite Franzonis.

 

[BCarter27]

If you have an Invaluable account, prices are here-

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-house/profiles-in-history-jzhgo05xzf

 

And ebay here-

http://www.ebay.com/sch/profilesinhistoryauctions/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_ipg&_from&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684