Why I Don't Like The Slab Phenom

[drbanner]

I have discovered that some of those whom are vehemently adamant against slabs are the same people whom likely have a higher percentage of PLODS in their collection. (example : Tomorrows Treasures)

 

That was certainly the case with hammer.

[Sqeggs]

Recently, in the thread about the new CGC case, I took some heat, and I thought I might like to explain my position a bit clearer.

 

I buy collectible comic books in order to read them, both for light enjoyment, and to re-live some of that experience I went through in the 1950's.

 

I recognize that slabbing high dollar books does have a value, especially concerning those who spend hundreds/thousands/tens of thousands on what might be considered investments, or certainly luxury level collectibles for those who are relatively well-heeled. They are obviously not purchasing these books to read them, so their endeavor is quite different from mine.

 

To get to my point, here is a book I bought on eBay last year, represented as being G;

 

 

Here is another of the same issue, currently listed;

 

 

My book has brighter inks, and no staining. On the other hand, it has tears, writing, and the cover is loose. In this example, the slabbed copy seems somewhat superior, and comparatively would reduce the grade on mine to perhaps G-, Fa-Gd, or Fa+.

 

Let's go even more so, and suggest that it drops mine by a full grade, to Fa, as compared to the slabbed copies' G. As such, one might expect the price difference to be double, going by Overstreet pricing standards. Mine cost $38, so logically the other should be available for about $76, either as an asking, BIN, or final hammer price.

 

But because it's in that shiny plastic case, the seller is asking $174.00. I know that we should never value based on an asking price, given that completed listings searches on practically anything are full of unsold asking prices, so it's hardly a basis for valuation.

 

The thrust of this is simply that since it is slabbed, the seller automatically deduces that he can get a pile of money more than if it weren't, thereby decreasing the availability of affordable readers. Yes, one copy doesn't mean anything, but the mindset here is the problem.

 

Now someone may come along and post, "yes, but CGC provided an accurate 3rd party grade, and it was obviously tighter than your seller's comparitively overgraded book". They would be missing the point;

 

between those two books, regardless of assigned grade, is there really a valuation spread of $38 to $174? Of course not.

 

 

I'm not sure I see your point. You got the comic you wanted and you passed on the graded copy -- which would have given you a reassurance that the book was complete and unrestored. That's fine, but so what?

 

Are you saying that there are books that you are looking for that you can't find a raw copy of? Is you argument that graded low-grade, low-value books are pushing raw low-grade books out of the market? That would be interesting, if true, but I don't believe it is.

 

 

[Mmehdy]

It all boils down to what you like to collect. If you're a high grade or pedigree collector, there are sound reasons for seeking third party graded books. Oh, and BTW, not every high grade collector views comics strictly as investments. I grew up loving comics in NM/M condition. Admittedly, I was a little obsessive about it and remain so to this day.

 

With that in mind, there are lots of alternatives for reading pleasure, from buying low grade under-copies and HC archive editions to (perish the thought!) PD photocopies sold on eBay for $8 to $10 a pop that are perfectly satisfactory (the only thing missing is the pulp paper feel and smell, ...who knows, for comic fans with allergies that might be a blessing).

 

I'm not saying that my POV on collecting ...or anyone else's for that matter... invalidates your own perspective (which I respect), but it comes down to different strokes for different folks. Whatever cranks your engine will drive your passion. Collecting can run on cheap gas, rocket fuel, or any mixture in between.

 

100% agree on this one..but resto check is important and worth the money.

[fifties]

Originally Posted By: nearmint

I think you're looking at it backwards. Your raw copy is devalued at auction because potential buyers don't know if it's complete and unrestored. The hammer price on the slabbed copy is the true market value because the buyer is informed. A buyer who is uncertain of the product they are bidding on will always bid less.

If you will allow me to interpret your statement, it would suggest that a raw copy, because it's not third party professionally graded, will always hammer for less, while the same book CGC slabbed, will go for more.

I would personally like to have more raw books available, where they could be seen, even just in scans, to roughly determine grade, and which could be bought cheaper, than higher priced slabs. I have returned very few books to sellers in my 18 years on eBay, and of those I have, never had an argument to accept a return.

 

 

Recently, in the thread about the new CGC case, I took some heat, and I thought I might like to explain my position a bit clearer.

 

I buy collectible comic books in order to read them, both for light enjoyment, and to re-live some of that experience I went through in the 1950's.

 

I recognize that slabbing high dollar books does have a value, especially concerning those who spend hundreds/thousands/tens of thousands on what might be considered investments, or certainly luxury level collectibles for those who are relatively well-heeled. They are obviously not purchasing these books to read them, so their endeavor is quite different from mine.

 

To get to my point, here is a book I bought on eBay last year, represented as being G;

 

 

Here is another of the same issue, currently listed;

 

 

My book has brighter inks, and no staining. On the other hand, it has tears, writing, and the cover is loose. In this example, the slabbed copy seems somewhat superior, and comparatively would reduce the grade on mine to perhaps G-, Fa-Gd, or Fa+.

 

Let's go even more so, and suggest that it drops mine by a full grade, to Fa, as compared to the slabbed copies' G. As such, one might expect the price difference to be double, going by Overstreet pricing standards. Mine cost $38, so logically the other should be available for about $76, either as an asking, BIN, or final hammer price.

 

But because it's in that shiny plastic case, the seller is asking $174.00. I know that we should never value based on an asking price, given that completed listings searches on practically anything are full of unsold asking prices, so it's hardly a basis for valuation.

 

The thrust of this is simply that since it is slabbed, the seller automatically deduces that he can get a pile of money more than if it weren't, thereby decreasing the availability of affordable readers. Yes, one copy doesn't mean anything, but the mindset here is the problem.

 

Now someone may come along and post, "yes, but CGC provided an accurate 3rd party grade, and it was obviously tighter than your seller's comparitively overgraded book". They would be missing the point;

 

between those two books, regardless of assigned grade, is there really a valuation spread of $38 to $174? Of course not.

 

 

I'm not sure I see your point. You got the comic you wanted and you passed on the graded copy -- which would have given you a reassurance that the book was complete and unrestored. That's fine, but so what?

 

Are you saying that there are books that you are looking for that you can't find a raw copy of? Is you argument that graded low-grade, low-value books are pushing raw low-grade books out of the market? That would be interesting, if true, but I don't believe it is.

 

To your first paragraph; I wouldn't offer on the slabbed book regardless. The raw copy was in my affordable range. The slabbed copy appears somewhat better, but certainly not to me well over $100 better. If it were offered unslabbed, IMHO it would be a $76 book, instead of being offered for over twice that much.

 

To the second; there are very few books that I still want, but of those, which are rarely offered, more and more are being slabbed, ergo less and less are available in raw condition, which would be far more affordable.

[nearmint]

Please keep in mind that not everyone shares your phenomenal success on eBay. I find unscrupulous dealers to be far more common than your experience would suggest.

[Silver Surfer]

Read up on Danny Dupcake please. I wonder how you would feel if you found out that half of the books you purchased over the last 5-10 years were restored and you realize that you grossly overpaid for all of them.

[woowoo]

I been buying on ebay since 1998. I never had a book i could not return or work something out. I did have a DVD that never got to me and ebay sided with the seller cause he had proof he sent out.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

Read up on Danny Dupcake please. I wonder how you would feel if you found out that half of the books you purchased over the last 5-10 years were restored and you realize that you grossly overpaid for all of them.

 

Is this miscreant still in business, or in jail?

[woowoo]

Read up on Danny Dupcake please. I wonder how you would feel if you found out that half of the books you purchased over the last 5-10 years were restored and you realize that you grossly overpaid for all of them.

 

That i did not know ? Last 5-10 years. I thought this guy was gone 20 years ago.

[Robot Man]

Side question. fifties is gonna kill me but I want to ask anyway.

 

My Chuch copy I posted earlier in this thread if I were to gasp... slab it, How would I be able to get it noted as a Church copy on the label? I bought it personally from Chuckles but my word means squat I know. I have a decent pile I bought all at once. There are of course, no markings or owner trail on these later ones. I doubt they are even on the list since it was done after his trip to Casual Con.

 

I believe some of them still have "the smell" but probably not all of them. I don't know who blesses pedigrees at CGC. Would it be better to go to "the other place" because I know West is probably the best in the biz at noting them?

 

Or, at this stage am I just TSOL?

 

 

[lou_fine]

Read up on Danny Dupcake please. I wonder how you would feel if you found out that half of the books you purchased over the last 5-10 years were restored and you realize that you grossly overpaid for all of them.

 

That i did not know ? Last 5-10 years. I thought this guy was gone 20 years ago.

 

Well, he was around 10 - 12 years ago when he was one of the original posters to provide scanned evidence to board members to out Jason Ewert and his whole micro-trimming fiasco along with other artificial manipulation of books.

 

That was when everybody here also became aware of the CPR game which certain dealers in the know had been juicing up their books without disclosure for years. A real game changer as pressing now almost seems to be built right in there as one of the steps to take prior having your book graded, or else you are leaving easy money on the table for the next person.

[Crowzilla]

Well, he was around 10 - 12 years ago when he was one of the original posters to provide scanned evidence to board members to out Jason Ewert and his whole micro-trimming fiasco along with other artificial manipulation of books.

 

So should CGC hire him to be their Frank Abagnale?

 

[buttock]

Side question. fifties is gonna kill me but I want to ask anyway.

 

My Chuch copy I posted earlier in this thread if I were to gasp... slab it, How would I be able to get it noted as a Church copy on the label? I bought it personally from Chuckles but my word means squat I know. I have a decent pile I bought all at once. There are of course, no markings or owner trail on these later ones. I doubt they are even on the list since it was done after his trip to Casual Con.

 

I believe some of them still have "the smell" but probably not all of them. I don't know who blesses pedigrees at CGC. Would it be better to go to "the other place" because I know West is probably the best in the biz at noting them?

 

Or, at this stage am I just TSOL?

 

 

Talk to John Verzyl.

 

And TSOL was a great band.

[porcupine48]

true sounds of liberty.if you can find it check out jack grishams book....

[MrBedrock]

Side question. fifties is gonna kill me but I want to ask anyway.

 

My Chuch copy I posted earlier in this thread if I were to gasp... slab it, How would I be able to get it noted as a Church copy on the label? I bought it personally from Chuckles but my word means squat I know. I have a decent pile I bought all at once. There are of course, no markings or owner trail on these later ones. I doubt they are even on the list since it was done after his trip to Casual Con.

 

I believe some of them still have "the smell" but probably not all of them. I don't know who blesses pedigrees at CGC. Would it be better to go to "the other place" because I know West is probably the best in the biz at noting them?

 

Or, at this stage am I just TSOL?

 

Your name and word carry more weight than you know. The specific guys who are experts in that area are very attuned the the issues involved with attributing pedigree status to the later Church books. They will be able to recognize your books for what they are.

[MrBedrock]

 

And TSOL was a great band.

[Cat-Man_America]

Side question. fifties is gonna kill me but I want to ask anyway.

 

My Chuch copy I posted earlier in this thread if I were to gasp... slab it, How would I be able to get it noted as a Church copy on the label? I bought it personally from Chuckles but my word means squat I know. I have a decent pile I bought all at once. There are of course, no markings or owner trail on these later ones. I doubt they are even on the list since it was done after his trip to Casual Con.

 

I believe some of them still have "the smell" but probably not all of them. I don't know who blesses pedigrees at CGC. Would it be better to go to "the other place" because I know West is probably the best in the biz at noting them?

 

Or, at this stage am I just TSOL?

 

 

Both grading services have good dependable people. My concerns with CGC have to do with uncertainty about the new holders even after the fix was announced. We still don't know what impact, if any, designs bearing the new label will have on prospective buyers. Since CGC has opted to keep the same label, which also received mixed reviews, there'll probably be confusion in the marketplace. That unknown would tip the balance for me.

 

 

 

Talk to John Verzyl.

 

And TSOL was a great band.

 

Let the gabathon begin!

[buttock]

true sounds of liberty.if you can find it check out jack grishams book....

 

Will do!

[Robot Man]

Side question. fifties is gonna kill me but I want to ask anyway.

 

My Chuch copy I posted earlier in this thread if I were to gasp... slab it, How would I be able to get it noted as a Church copy on the label? I bought it personally from Chuckles but my word means squat I know. I have a decent pile I bought all at once. There are of course, no markings or owner trail on these later ones. I doubt they are even on the list since it was done after his trip to Casual Con.

 

I believe some of them still have "the smell" but probably not all of them. I don't know who blesses pedigrees at CGC. Would it be better to go to "the other place" because I know West is probably the best in the biz at noting them?

 

Or, at this stage am I just TSOL?

 

 

Both grading services have good dependable people. My concerns with CGC have to do with uncertainty about the new holders even after the fix was announced. We still don't know what impact, if any, designs bearing the new label will have on prospective buyers. Since CGC has opted to keep the same label, which also received mixed reviews, there'll probably be confusion in the marketplace. That unknown would tip the balance for me.

 

 

 

Talk to John Verzyl.

 

And TSOL was a great band.

 

Let the gabathon begin!

 

I really don't know John personally. I know he bought a lot of the later Church books. But, I didn't buy them from him and being un-marked. I do have a couple I got from Redbeard. He actually had a "certificate" made up for his. I know he is well known and I would have no problem with those. Jus thinking about it. Of course until CGC gets this straightened out, I will hold off. This must be really killing their business. Maybe turnaround times have been improved?

[Doohickamabob]

And TSOL was a great band.

If you thought you were TSOL because you never heard "TSOL" by TSOL, now you're IL: