MAN OF STEEL 2 starring Henry Cavill (TBD) 4 4

[▫️]

5 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

WUT

Man of Steel is a phenomenal film and Zack Snyder is the tits.

Wan might be able to do a Superman film justice.

Zack Snyder’s Man of Steel, Watchmen and 300 are incredible and high up in my top ten favorite comic book films. His Dawn of the Dead remake was perfection minus the social commentary. Did not care for other stuff he did like Sucker Punch.

[WolverineX]

11 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

WUT

Man of Steel is a phenomenal film and Zack Snyder is the tits.

Wan might be able to do a Superman film justice.

Man of Steel was good.  Justice League and Batman Vs Superman were awful

[Bosco685]

25 minutes ago, Wolverinex said:

Man of Steel was good.  Justice League and Batman Vs Superman were awful

Sorry you didn't enjoy this. I think Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut is great.

[theCapraAegagrus]

48 minutes ago, Wolverinex said:

Man of Steel was good.  Justice League and Batman Vs Superman were awful

Granted - Warner Bros. and Joss Whedon ruined Justice League.

The Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition is a great movie, though (been said a million times).

[WolverineX]

9 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

Granted - Warner Bros. and Joss Whedon ruined Justice League.

The Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition is a great movie, though (been said a million times).

I haven't heard of The Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition... is this a special bluray ?  

[thunsicker]

I don't hate Zack Snyder.  In fact, I'm quite fond of his  Dawn of the Dead, 300, and Watchmen.  But I really don't like his DCEU work.  The reason is that he is attempting to deconstruct a universe that has't been constructed yet.  It's part of the reason Watchmen failed.  While the fanboys understood the heroes and the story line it was done with heroes who no one knew.  The reason Alan Moore and Frank Miller were so successful with their work is they were drawing on decades of stories and putting those heroes into a totally new environment.  A Zack Snyder DCEU film could be really interesting, but only after they build up the heroes and their tendencies.  Show Batman starting out optimistic and growing jaded in a series of films before making him the dark ruthless character we saw in BvS.  Have Superman have a few films where the reason he's not the Superman of Truth Justice and the American way are shown rather than just making him the sullen teen we see in this film.  Show the reason Wonder Woman withdrew from the world rather than just putting her in there as someone who is disconnected from the world.

Edited February 5, 2019 by thunsicker

[theCapraAegagrus]

22 minutes ago, Wolverinex said:

I haven't heard of The Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition... is this a special bluray ?  

It's the typical Snyder Cut. Has 30+ minutes of additional footage and the story conveyed in the correct order (theatrical cut was re-ordered which increased confusion for lead character motivations). More than 90% of the additional footage is critical to the story (not really action sequences).

It turns an otherwise 'meh' movie into something truly great. Anyone who hasn't seen it isn't judging the real thing. If you don't like the Ultimate Edition, then it can't be argued that you're judging a different movie.

Spoiler

It doesn't fix the poorly-written "Martha" scene, but it fixes everything else. It's tough to introduce a new Batman, Wonder Woman, Alexander (not Lex) Luthor, Doomsday, etc. into a movie < 3 hours. I think that Snyder did the best he could under those circumstances in his Director's Cut.

BvS just isn't a movie for someone that wants nothing but the Marvel Formula, though. If you want something "realistic" and gritty, when it comes to gods and aliens, Snyder puts a great spin and perspective on those aspects. He also pays homage to dozens of comics. I love(d) the serious tone of Worlds of DC. IMO it's the perfect compliment to Marvel's mostly-buddy comedy types.

Some people don't like it for the New Superman arc. As has been said a million times - this isn't the same Superman that has been in comics for 80 years. This is Superman just a couple years removed from finding out what he can begin to be. Justice League was our first glance at Snyder's completion to Superman's trilogy. Post-JL was/is the era of 'The Real Superman'. I love it. Other people are too short-sighted to get invested in a trilogy with an important character arc and development, which is really odd, since most of those people claim that Worlds of DC/Snyder can't tell stories and/or develop characters... Really, really odd.

Sorry for the novella of a response!

[theCapraAegagrus]

2 minutes ago, thunsicker said:

I don't hate Zack Snyder.  In fact, I'm quite fond of his  Dawn of the Dead, 300, and Watchmen.  But I really don't like his DCEU work.  The reason is that he is attempting to deconstruct a universe that has't been constructed yet.  It's part of the reason Watchmen failed.  While the fanboys understood the heroes and the story line it was done with heroes who no one knew.  The reason Alan Moore and Frank Miller were so successful with their work is they were drawing on decades of stories and putting those heroes into a totally new environment.  A Zack Snyder DCEU film could be really interesting, but only after they build up the heroes and their tendencies.  Show Batman starting out optimistic and growing jaded in a series of films before making him the dark ruthless character we saw in BvS.  Have Superman have a few films where the reason he's not the Superman of Truth Justice and the American way are shown rather than just making him the sullen teen we see in this film.  Show the reason Wonder Woman withdrew from the world rather than just putting her in there as someone who is disconnected from the world.

Zack Snyder's Superman trilogy - Man of Steel, BvS, and Justice League - did exactly what you're claiming he wasn't: Creating and developing Superman...

We already saw Batman go through what you're suggesting circa 2005-2013. You really wanted to see that re-hashed a couple years later? I just don't agree with this line of thinking. We needed something new - not regurgitated - and we got it. In fact, most people think that Batman is the best part of BvS. Even the people that don't think highly of the movie diagree with this.

Edited February 5, 2019 by TwoPiece

[▫️]

20 hours ago, TwoPiece said:

 

  Hide contents

It doesn't fix the poorly-written "Martha" scene, but it fixes everything else. It's tough to introduce a new Batman, Wonder Woman, Alexander (not Lex) Luthor, Doomsday, etc. into a movie < 3 hours. I think that Snyder did the best he could under those circumstances in his Director's Cut.

 

I’m good with the Martha scene. The word just gave him a second of pause to allow Lois to step in between them which saves Clark. The internet just blew it up and made a big deal out of nothing.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Oddball

[kav]

On 9/20/2017 at 8:33 AM, ComicConnoisseur said:

Brainiac would be cool. Under no circumstances can they use Lex Luthor again. The audience is bored with Luthor.

The key to the next Superman movie will be the villian.

Superman doesn't have the luxury of Batman when it comes to having good villians.

 

when I see Luthor I wanna puke.  Also Joker.  Ugh

[ComicConnoisseur]

With the next Superman movie I hope they keep it out of the DC Universe. I hope it`s standalone Superman universe.

No Darkseid.

Just Superman, Krypton and Metropolis.

I find Superman is much more interesting when he is by himself than teaming up with a zillion other superheroes with superpowers.

Frankly, I like to see a modern update version of this Superman.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by ComicConnoisseur

[Bosco685]

Now Cavill won't even fit into the suit.

 

[Bosco685]

 

[media_junkie]

Ok, I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion but after having re-watched "Man of Steel" and "Batman V Superman (Ultimate Cut)" today I have to say that I fully feel that barring the original Superman movie, these two are by far the best Superman movies.

IMO if the WB studio had released the Ultimate cut of BvS to the theaters instead of the cut up confusing thing they did then I think the DCEU would have worked.  I feel as if the Ultimate cut would have garnered better reviews, more money, and all around more good will.  Which would have kept the studio from screwing around and taking over the Justice League project. 

I truly am sorry that we will never get to see Snyder's Superman (and Justice League) to completion.  I can only imagine what would have come out had the studio left him alone/trusted him and the 5 part saga we could have gotten, MoS -- BvS -- JLp1 -- JLp2 -- MoS2.  I think with Synder's take those 5 movies would have been really good.

However we will never know as obviously Snyder is out of the picture, Cavill looks as if he is out as well, and it looks as if WB is giving up on the shared DCEU and just going to stand alone DC movies.

[Bosco685]

it is sad how this has turned out to be a mishandled sequel. But with the fresh WB leadership coming on board, and Walter Hamada seeing his new films turn out to be successes, anything can happen.

[Bosco685]

 

[Shoomanfoo]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:18 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

It's the typical Snyder Cut. Has 30+ minutes of additional footage and the story conveyed in the correct order (theatrical cut was re-ordered which increased confusion for lead character motivations). More than 90% of the additional footage is critical to the story (not really action sequences).

It turns an otherwise 'meh' movie into something truly great. Anyone who hasn't seen it isn't judging the real thing. If you don't like the Ultimate Edition, then it can't be argued that you're judging a different movie.

  Reveal hidden contents

It doesn't fix the poorly-written "Martha" scene, but it fixes everything else. It's tough to introduce a new Batman, Wonder Woman, Alexander (not Lex) Luthor, Doomsday, etc. into a movie < 3 hours. I think that Snyder did the best he could under those circumstances in his Director's Cut.

BvS just isn't a movie for someone that wants nothing but the Marvel Formula, though. If you want something "realistic" and gritty, when it comes to gods and aliens, Snyder puts a great spin and perspective on those aspects. He also pays homage to dozens of comics. I love(d) the serious tone of Worlds of DC. IMO it's the perfect compliment to Marvel's mostly-buddy comedy types.

Some people don't like it for the New Superman arc. As has been said a million times - this isn't the same Superman that has been in comics for 80 years. This is Superman just a couple years removed from finding out what he can begin to be. Justice League was our first glance at Snyder's completion to Superman's trilogy. Post-JL was/is the era of 'The Real Superman'. I love it. Other people are too short-sighted to get invested in a trilogy with an important character arc and development, which is really odd, since most of those people claim that Worlds of DC/Snyder can't tell stories and/or develop characters... Really, really odd.

Sorry for the novella of a response!

Knew it wouldn’t be long before someone mentioned marvel.

Someone always mentions Marvel even when they were never referenced.

It hard not to say the M word of greatness 

[Iconic1s]

1 hour ago, Shoomanfoo said:

It doesn't fix the poorly-written "Martha" scene, but it fixes everything else. It's tough to introduce a new Batman, Wonder Woman, Alexander (not Lex) Luthor, Doomsday, etc. into a movie < 3 hours. I think that Snyder did the best he could under those circumstances in his Director's Cut.

Maybe it is because I really want to like these movies, but I have put probably too much thought into things such as the 'Martha' scene.  First I will say that I am not a big fan of Superman and Batman fighting, and I also don't get why people idolize and want to emulate Frank Miller's Dark Knight.  I know I'm the minority but it's just my opinion.  Now onto the Martha scene...

Okay, putting myself in Bruce Wayne's shoes, I just witnessed both of my parents murdered in front of me... my Dad utters my Mom's name, Martha, as he dies right in front of me.   I am now one screwed up kid.  Give me a bit of money and the drive to clean this kind of crime up and I eventually become 'Batman.'  I'm not quite yet the Batman that WE expect but I have been fighting crime for 20 years, my prodigy has been murdered in the process, and things just haven't gotten any better.  I've just gotten more and more pi*sed at the world because I just haven't seen any light creep out of the darkness that I operate in.

Along comes Superman, Zod, the whole bit.  During the Man of Steel climax countless people are killed, including a ton of my own employees.  Because of my life experiences I don't see a 'bright side' to any of this.  This guy Superman with all this power can ONLY be bad in my book.  I can't let something like this run around unchecked because as far as I know all power is bad... heck, even I, with my drive to 'clean up crime', I think I'm a good guy, but I break limbs, inflict pain, and even kill people in the name of cleaning up crime.  I set out on a pre-emptive strike to wipe out Superman before he changes his mind and decides to destroy our world.  Not to mention a little manipulation by Luthor gets me even more spun up!

So here I am now kicking the heck out of this Superman... I'm not just defeating him but I am 'punishing' him for stuff he has only done so far in my imagination.  When I am ready to deliver the killing blow he utters the one word the takes me ALL THE WAY BACK to the moment that my life forever changed.  To a time when there was light in my life, to a time of innocence.  My mind is utterly blown.  Yes, I agree that the scene came off a bit hokey, but I think it was much deeper than it appeared on screen.  By Batman and Superman's moms literally sharing the same name, maybe Superman could reflect the world Bruce lived in before the moment his dad died uttering that last word, Martha.  Maybe Batman was wrong, maybe he didn't need to destroy EVERY threat, maybe he didn't even have to kill people anymore.  Shoot, maybe this Superman guy could even be given the benefit of the doubt?!

I think we were on our way to see a truly kick-butt Justice League with great character development, but WB lost their nerve and we ended up with a garbage JLA movie instead.    

44 minutes ago, Grails said:

There is no denying that the Marvel formula works much like The Fast and Furious and Transformers formulas work. They appeal to the masses and bring in the box office. Can’t fault them at all for that. I give the DCU credit for being different despite some failures and hope they continue taking chances. 

I enjoy the Marvel movies because I expect so little.  Yes, they are a lot of fun but to me they are just good entertainment without much depth.  Just sit there, watch the fights, crack up at the jokes, and be pretty satisfied in the end.  I'm not knocking them at all, they are good 'comic book' movies.  To me the DCEU was on its way to be truly masterpieces in exploring what a world would really be like with Superheroes living among us though.

The failing in my opinion is with WB.  In my humble opinion DC will always have the best characters but WB just doesn't deserve them.  They got in a rush to make a buck and hodgepodged a few movies together that are completely incoherent.  Then when they failed miserably they copped out and claimed that they would now work on standalone projects.  How many versions of Joker are you going to screw around with WB?  Look at Suicide Squad... complete garbage!  The extended cut is a little more watchable but you just have to convince yourself that the movie 'doesn't count' to barely enjoy it.

They flinched and released a terrible version of Justice League... Henry Cavill's lip alone was a big middle finger to the fans.  Super breath, carrying whole buildings around, 'is this guy bothering you' literally after coming back from the dead, give me a break WB.  Anyways, I think you get my point which brings me to my conclusion...

I am NOT looking forward to the New Gods movie!  Darkseid is one of my favorite characters and I am 100% certain they willl screw this up!  Even if focusing on Big Barda and Mr. Miracle, it will blow.  As much as I love collecting and long for a good rendition of these characters to pop into the blu-ray I have given up on WB putting out any DC movie that is any more entertaining than a Marvel movie... just shut up, watch the explosions, laugh at stupid ill-placed jokes, and don't expect anything more than an okay 'comic-book' movie.  Don't expect anything more and you'll be happy.  Ava Duvarney?  Get ready for Oprah as Granny Goodness!

Man of Steel 2 with Henry Cavill would be awesome but I am sure it'll never happen.  If WB has proven anything is that they can screw up a good thing.  

Edited May 8, 2020 by Iconic1s
typo

[Bosco685]

2 hours ago, Iconic1s said:

Maybe it is because I really want to like these movies, but I have put probably too much thought into things such as the 'Martha' scene.  First I will say that I am not a big fan of Superman and Batman fighting, and I also don't get why people idolize and want to emulate Frank Miller's Dark Knight.  I know I'm the minority but it's just my opinion.  Now onto the Martha scene...

Okay, putting myself in Bruce Wayne's shoes, I just witnessed both of my parents murdered in front of me... my Dad utters my Mom's name, Martha, as he dies right in front of me.   I am now one screwed up kid.  Give me a bit of money and the drive to clean this kind of crime up and I eventually become 'Batman.'  I'm not quite yet the Batman that WE expect but I have been fighting crime for 20 years, my prodigy has been murdered in the process, and things just haven't gotten any better.  I've just gotten more and more pi*sed at the world because I just haven't seen any light creep out of the darkness that I operate in.

Along comes Superman, Zod, the whole bit.  During the Man of Steel climax countless people are killed, including a ton of my own employees.  Because of my life experiences I don't see a 'bright side' to any of this.  This guy Superman with all this power can ONLY be bad in my book.  I can't let something like this run around unchecked because as far as I know all power is bad... heck, even I, with my drive to 'clean up crime', I think I'm a good guy, but I break limbs, inflict pain, and even kill people in the name of cleaning up crime.  I set out on a pre-emptive strike to wipe out Superman before he changes his mind and decides to destroy our world.  Not to mention a little manipulation by Luthor gets me even more spun up!

So here I am now kicking the heck out of this Superman... I'm not just defeating him but I am 'punishing' him for stuff he has only done so far in my imagination.  When I am ready to deliver the killing blow he utters the one word the takes me ALL THE WAY BACK to the moment that my life forever changed.  To a time when there was light in my life, to a time of innocence.  My mind is utterly blown.  Yes, I agree that the scene came off a bit hokey, but I think it was much deeper than it appeared on screen.  By Batman and Superman's moms literally sharing the same name, maybe Superman could reflect the world Bruce lived in before the moment his dad died uttering that last word, Martha.  Maybe Batman was wrong, maybe he didn't need to destroy EVERY threat, maybe he didn't even have to kill people anymore.  Shoot, maybe this Superman guy could even be given the benefit of the doubt?!

I think we were on our way to see a truly kick-butt Justice League with great character development, but WB lost their nerve and we ended up with a garbage JLA movie instead.    

Spoiler

 

I enjoy the Marvel movies because I expect so little.  Yes, they are a lot of fun but to me they are just good entertainment without much depth.  Just sit there, watch the fights, crack up at the jokes, and be pretty satisfied in the end.  I'm not knocking them at all, they are good 'comic book' movies.  To me the DCEU was on its way to be truly masterpieces in exploring what a world would really be like with Superheroes living among us though.

The failing in my opinion is with WB.  In my humble opinion DC will always have the best characters but WB just doesn't deserve them.  They got in a rush to make a buck and hodgepodged a few movies together that are completely incoherent.  Then when they failed miserably they copped out and claimed that they would now work on standalone projects.  How many versions of Joker are you going to screw around with WB?  Look at Suicide Squad... complete garbage!  The extended cut is a little more watchable but you just have to convince yourself that the movie 'doesn't count' to barely enjoy it.

They flinched and released a terrible version of Justice League... Henry Cavill's lip alone was a big middle finger to the fans.  Super breath, carrying whole buildings around, 'is this guy bothering you' literally after coming back from the dead, give me a break WB.  Anyways, I think you get my point which brings me to my conclusion...

I am NOT looking forward to the New Gods movie!  Darkseid is one of my favorite characters and I am 100% certain they willl screw this up!  Even if focusing on Big Barda and Mr. Miracle, it will blow.  As much as I love collecting and long for a good rendition of these characters to pop into the blu-ray I have given up on WB putting out any DC movie that is any more entertaining than a Marvel movie... just shut up, watch the explosions, laugh at stupid ill-placed jokes, and don't expect anything more than an okay 'comic-book' movie.  Don't expect anything more and you'll be happy.  Ava Duvarney?  Get ready for Oprah as Granny Goodness!

Man of Steel 2 with Henry Cavill would be awesome but I am sure it'll never happen.  If WB has proven anything is that they can screw up a good thing.  

 

 

Right there is the most painful reality.

Sure. WB/DC could have done a much better job of marketing after decades of traditional Batman and Superman TV shows and films this version created by Zack Snyder was going to be the ultimate Elseworlds story to change things up. They missed the boat on that marketing message to bring over the folks kicking the most over 'NOT MY SUPERMAN' or 'NOT MY BATMAN'. But even with that, what Man of Steel and Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut delivered was another approach to world-building. It didn't need to follow the same scheme as other companies. That's small-mindedness to assume everything must be the same cookie-cutter approach or it is wrong.

But the whole Martha scene negative argument is really ignorant when you look at the world we deal in today after the Iraq War, Afghanistan War and then on-going terrorist activities. What comes out the other end of those experiences in the harshest of situations are folks that are traumatized and at times ready for a fight. 'Martha' was Bruce's trigger word to bring him back to what you so solidly outlined - the worst of family situations that turned his life upside down.

[Iconic1s]

17 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

They missed the boat on that marketing message to bring over the folks kicking the most over 'NOT MY SUPERMAN' or 'NOT MY BATMAN'.

Completely agree!  When I walked out of BvS the first time I was pretty angry.  Being a longtime Death of Superman fan and seeing what they did to Doomsday really irked me, not to mention how I already said I felt about Batman and Superman fighting.  I had already planned to see a second showing the same day so I hung around the theatre awhile, cooled off a bit, let it go, and went back in.  I enjoyed it a lot more the second time and even more when I watched the Ultimate Edition.  After the Ultimate Edition it really made sense.

In my mind these two stories ended up being an origin story.  As much as people disagreed with Superman breaking Zod's neck that, as well as everything in BvS was leading up to  us getting introduced to the characters that we were more familiar with.  The experience Batman had with Superman would have made him realize that there are things in the world that can be purely good.  I think Batman still would have had the urge to really break someone's skull every once in awhile but Superman merely being around would have made him want to be just a little bit better of a guy, while also still being Batman.  He probably would have slipped up every now and then and that may have made for some good relationship/buddy dynamics... it can't be smooth sailing all the time.

Likewise, Superman's experience with breaking Zod's neck would make him more opposed to killing in the future, just as I think we see him in the comics.  Imagine a guy like that flying around with no qualms with breaking necks left and right.  Him having to do that to Zod would make him look for ways to do anything but that in the future.  These are just a couple of examples of the baggage that our heroes would have had that would make them who they were going to be and I can only imagine the depth that the rest of the characters might have had if given the chance.  I've pretty much given up on the Snyder Cut of Justice League but I can only imagine how awesome the Cyborg  and Flash backstories must have been just from the little I have heard!

Like you said about the 'NOT MY SUPERMAN' and NOT MY BATMAN' folks, I sort of see where they were coming from BUT I think we were working our way there, and you're right that if WB had marketed this better maybe we could have seen them.  None of us started out being the people we are today, everyone has had to make mistakes to learn from them... we were being introduced to our heroes at a point where we were watching them develop into the people we think of, I'm not sure how long the plan was to take them to get there but I think it would have been pretty cool.  They would have had real stuff driving them in the end, and real reasons to try to be better heroes.  I honestly doubt that we will ever have a chance like we had again to see these characters like this.