Shill Alert2....

[mr_highgrade]

[Ze-man]

It really is like old times. Wonder if JC will lift the vail of secrecy tonight.

 

J_C is already here.

 

Is he posting?

 

Frequently.

 

Everybody.... all at once...say it with me

 

... who cares about JC, the FDQ

[FFB]

It's too early for this thread to die out. I just read it and missed all the fun. Allow me to throw some gasoline on the fire please.

 

This is an unbelieveable thread. Flying Donut got caught in multiple shills and lies. Very dissappointing to say in the least. Shilling is stealing as far as I am concerned.

 

This is news to me. I thought the problem with shilling is that it allows a seller to set a de facto reserve on a book without paying eBay the reserve fee of a buck or two. In other words, it is "eBay Reserve Fee Avoidance," not "STEALING." No one forced the bidder to bid higher. The bidder probably would have been willing to bid the same amount if the reserve had been set at the same level as the highest shill bid. Maybe not, but in most cases I would think so.

 

Please note that I am not defending shilling or saying it's ok. I just can't equate eBay reserve fee avoidance with stealing. They are not the same thing.

 

To make matters worse, it was one of the worst shill names he could have possibly used - it had his last name for God sakes. Who knows how long it has been going on, chances are it has happened before.

 

Agreed, agreed, 1,000 times agreed! Dan, when I first saw the pjcusimano link, I thought "No way, he's too smart for this!" And I also think it's likely that it has happened before.

 

Someone called him worthless, like what? A child molestor? An Enron executive? Give me a break. He is not worthless.

 

He made a mistake that he , initially, did not think it was a big deal. He could easily have been suspended from eBay but the ire he has faced in the forums should be enough.

 

He has apologized and offered a mea culpa. Time to move on and let him lick his well deserved wounds.

 

Personally, I would have liked a more contrite apology when he got caught. I was a little annoyed by Dan's tone as though he was the victim. Dan, you got caught. Take yer lumps.

 

I do not think I have ever done any business with Dan but I have seen quite a few of his posts. He has helped people out and participated in forum charities. Except for the recent transgression and the occasional lapse into Liberal nonsense..hehe; he has seemed to be stand up guy.

 

Yep. Dan has been a solid board member and I know that a lot of people here call him a friend. I don't know Dan well enough to call him a friend (though I have met him in person and consider him to be a good guy), but I recognize that he is generally a very positive contributor to these forums and enthusiastically helps people find books they need to fill out their collections.

 

To be honest, I am quite a bit more disappointed in Dan's lying about the shilling when he was first asked and his less-than-contrite mea culpa when faced with the undeniable evidence than I am about the fact that he avoided eBay reserve fees. (If I had a nickel for every time I've seen forum members ask other forum members to shill the ebay auctions they list in the marketplace, I'd have a bunch of nickels.) I suspect that the lying doesn't come from Dan being a "no good, lying, thieving sack of [#@$%!!!]," but more likely it was a gut reaction to concern that his board pals would catch him shilling his auctions. Dan cares what the people here think of him and was hoping that if he denied it, his standing as an old skool forum member would cause people to leave the issue alone. (It didn't. )

 

That doesn't make the lying ok, but I think it probably is a pretty accurate description of where the motivation to lie came from. Haven't any of you ever lied before when getting caught doing something wrong in the hope that the person you lied to would just drop the issue and leave it alone? I know I have. Ask my mom about all of the missing booze from her liquor cabinet during my high school years (and yes, THAT is "stealing" ). I took the booze and I lied like the devil when she asked me about it. I also claimed that I wasn't stoned out of my gourd at Christmas dinner in 1985. A bald-faced lie! I was baked like a potato!

 

So anyway, Dan avoided eBay reserve fees and Dan lied to us all about doing so, and then Dan reacted in a pissy way about getting caught. When balanced against the good that Dan has brought to the forum and the favors he's done for forum members over the last many years, I hardly think that the lying and BS response to being called onto the carpet cancels out ALL of the good and casts him down into the depths with the true thieves of the hobby.

 

When I see Dan at WW Chicago this summer, I will drink some wine with him like I did last year, razz him for a few hours about having shilled his auctions in the most inept way possible, probably give him a big, drunk man-hug and then will see him again the next year and do it all over again. Dan, you're a liar like the rest of us and I forgive you.

 

And for all of you holier-than-thou types who STILL want to set Dan on fire for what he did, I can only hope that one day Redhook gets a hold of your high school buddies and starts dishing the dirt.

 

OK, I am ready for my flame war now please. Step right up.

[ComicSupply]

[october]

You really missed out FFB. I think this thread jumped the shark a few pages ago. Your response was way too nice, you should have put in some personal insults if you really wanted to get it started again. Tell you what, throw in a few cheap shots about me and the fun can begin anew!

[FFB]

You really missed out FFB. I think this thread jumped the shark a few pages ago. Your response was way too nice, you should have put in some personal insults if you really wanted to get it started again. Tell you what, throw in a few cheap shots about me and the fun can begin anew!

 

"Holier than thou" wasn't good enough for you?!

 

 

Actually, I don't want to come down hard on the people who jumped all over Dan. My initial reaction was to get pretty mad and majorly disappointed until I sat back and thought the whole thing through before actually posting.

 

But I'm still ready for a flame war if someone wants one.

[Ze-man]

All this seems to boil down to those that know Dan personally, and like him as a friend.

And those that do not know Dan, and are just reading the facts as black and white.

 

There has to be some area of common ground here.

 

To be sure I am not the one to say what that is...if I knew I would have already said as much.

Me personally... I was VERY peeved at Dan for how he reacted when this thread first started. It struck an offchord with me that just did not sit well...he got all rightous... hence why I bumped this back up in the thread about Kiltmans recent transgression, in hopes to keep it current.

 

Sooo...

Are we supposed to make Dan walk the walk of shame, dragging an iron ball down the street naked?

Say I am sorry to every board member in a personal PM?

Leave and never come back for his transgressions?

 

No.. I am not that vengeful...

I admit , I wanted to see him put him in his place for not sacking up the first go around. Petty of me.. but I felt that way, I am being honest.

And I still think what went down on Ebay was not exactly above the board.

 

I just know this more then a black and white issue.

 

We keep saying the same things over and over again.

If there was a set point. It appears we have played it.

Dan lost.

Now to pick up the pieces and move on.

 

 

Or we could just rehash it again for 12 more pages? Speak out minds about how bad he really is, or is not.

We do so like to do that.

 

 

Ze-

[BradleyX2]

But I'm still ready for a flame war if someone wants one.

 

 

Um....

 

Scuba covers suck?

 

(?)

[october]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

[FFB]

You call that a flame war, punk?!

 

All this seems to boil down to those that know Dan personally, and like him as a friend.

And those that do not know Dan, and are just reading the facts as black and white.

 

There has to be some area of common ground here.

 

To be sure I am not the one to say what that is...if I knew I would have already said as much.

Me personally... I was VERY peeved at Dan for how he reacted when this thread first started. It struck an offchord with me that just did not sit well...he got all rightous... hence why I brought this back up in the thread about Kiltmans recent transgression.

Sooo...

Are we supposed to make Dan walk the walk of shame, dragging an iron ball down the street naked?

Say I am sorry to every board member in a personal PM?

Leave and never come back for his transgressions.

 

No.. I am not that vengeful...

I admit , I wanted to see him put him in his place for not sacking up the first go around. Petty of me.. but I felt that way, I am being honest.

And I still think what went down on Ebay was not exactly above the board.

 

I just know this more then a black and white issue.

 

We keep saying the same things over and over again.

If there was a set point. It appears we have played it.

Dan lost.

Now to pick up the pieces and move on.

 

 

Or we could just rehash it again for 12 more pages? Speak out minds about how bad he really is, or is not.

We do so like to do that.

 

 

Ze-

[FFB]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

When did you send it? I already answered the one I got from you the first time.

[greggy]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

When did you send it? I already answered the one I got from you the first time.

Don't you remember adding him to your spam filter?

[october]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

When did you send it? I already answered the one I got from you the first time.

 

Seriously? I wrote back a rather long email and sent it the same day as your reply. That sucks.

[october]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

When did you send it? I already answered the one I got from you the first time.

Don't you remember adding him to your spam filter?

 

Beat it, creampuff.

[FFB]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

When did you send it? I already answered the one I got from you the first time.

 

Seriously? I wrote back a rather long email. That sucks.

 

Found it! It was in my AOL junk folder. Guess that tells you what AOL thought of your career plans.

 

[greggy]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

When did you send it? I already answered the one I got from you the first time.

Don't you remember adding him to your spam filter?

 

Beat it, creampuff.

Why don't you post the EMAIL on the forum? Or will the excessive crying damper this "cheery" atmosphere?

[october]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

When did you send it? I already answered the one I got from you the first time.

 

Seriously? I wrote back a rather long email. That sucks.

 

Found it! It was in my AOL junk folder. Guess that tells you what AOL thought of your career plans.

 

 

Greggy was right?!? A dark day indeed.

[jbud73]

You really missed out FFB. I think this thread jumped the shark a few pages ago. Your response was way too nice, you should have put in some personal insults if you really wanted to get it started again. Tell you what, throw in a few cheap shots about me and the fun can begin anew!

 

"Holier than thou" wasn't good enough for you?!

 

 

Actually, I don't want to come down hard on the people who jumped all over Dan. My initial reaction was to get pretty mad and majorly disappointed until I sat back and thought the whole thing through before actually posting.

 

But I'm still ready for a flame war if someone wants one.

 

SCS is a figment of yer imag......

 

all lawyers are .....

 

Frank Miller couldn't .... er Frank rules ....

 

Nah I got nuthin'

[greggy]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

When did you send it? I already answered the one I got from you the first time.

 

Seriously? I wrote back a rather long email. That sucks.

 

Found it! It was in my AOL junk folder. Guess that tells you what AOL thought of your career plans.

 

 

Greggy was right?!? A dark day indeed.

That's what happens when you use some cheap arse ISP instead of a "legitimate" one!

[october]

Nah, takes more than that to get under my skin, especially when followed by . Besides, I am sure I did come across as an hole, but someone had to over-react or the thread might have fallen by the wayside.

 

 

Now go answer the long and rambling email I sent you detailing my post-graduation woes.

 

When did you send it? I already answered the one I got from you the first time.

 

Seriously? I wrote back a rather long email. That sucks.

 

Found it! It was in my AOL junk folder. Guess that tells you what AOL thought of your career plans.

 

 

Greggy was right?!? A dark day indeed.

That's what happens when you use some cheap arse ISP instead of a "legitimate" one!

 

I liked you better when you didn't use words!