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Shill Alert2....

Started by dm226,

469 posts in this topic

awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
To me, seeing something like FD shilling his auctions makes me wonder how many other times this has happened. I also think I would be more agreeable with your POV if he had not lied about the shilling and tried to cover it up. That definitely makes me think twice.

 

True...but again, unless someone can show me where he's done this before, I tend to think he got caught up in one lie in reaction to being outed in another. Jeez, his feedback is over 4000. You'd think someone wouldn't have noticed another. Especially one this obvious. Hell, it's downright bush league compared to other, more complex shills we've seen in the past.

 

That's the reason i think it was a rash, unfortunate decision. Hopefully compounded by the consumption of large doses of alcohol...

 

Jim

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trevorlsmith

trevorlsmith

Posted
Posted
Could Dan have handled this better -- sure. He could have canceled the auction or he could have placed a reserve.

 

i am not an ebay seller, so i don't know the repurcussions, if any, of canceling an auction. are there any? i doubt it...maybe seller fees.

 

suppose a seller lists an item and for whatever reason (it breaks, it's stolen...) is his only option to shill bid so that he or a friend wins it? that makes no sense.

 

if the seller, in this situation, was not trying to increase the final selling price, he would have just cancelled the auction. instead he bid up the price to a range where he would feel comfortable selling it to a disconnected bidder.

 

i don't know. maybe i am off base? this is not any of my business, and flyingdonut's reputation is obviously stellar on these boards, but isn't this a classic example of shilling? i'm not seeing the difference between the shilling discussed in this thread, compared to the other.

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PedigreeMan

PedigreeMan

Posted
Posted

This makes me sad, Dan. Very sad. You probably don't care as you still don't even seem to get that what you did was wrong. And if you were a typical comic dealer, I would have simply chalked things up to the nature of the business and moved on.

 

But I've broken bread with you. I've talked baseball with you. I've had one too many adult beverages with you. And I never got the "sleezy dealer" vibe from you. Never. Do you realize how rare that is? You sure had me fooled, Dan. Congrats, as that takes a lot.

 

Now I guess I have to lower my dealer standards even more. Pretty soon I won't be able to trust anyone in this cutthroat hobby. And then I'll be out of it. I laugh whenever Gene talks about a "secular decline" in comic collectors, but when you view everyone in this hobby as scum, no amount of obsessive compulsive satisfaction is worth staying in it.

 

So stay on your highhorse, Dan. I'm sure you're saying, "Shilling is a way of life, if you don't do it you risk losing out, 893blahblah.gif. Caveat Emptor and all that jazz." But you're no better than the rest of the people giving this hobby a bad name. And pretty soon people like yourself are all that's going to be left.

 

Your friend,

Alan

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
This makes me sad, Dan. Very sad. You probably don't care as you still don't even seem to get that what you did was wrong. And if you were a typical comic dealer, I would have simply chalked things up to the nature of the business and moved on.

 

But I've broken bread with you. I've talked baseball with you. I've had one too many adult beverages with you. And I never got the "sleezy dealer" vibe from you. Never. Do you realize how rare that is? You sure had me fooled, Dan. Congrats, as that takes a lot.

 

Now I guess I have to lower my dealer standards even more. Pretty soon I won't be able to trust anyone in this cutthroat hobby. And then I'll be out of it. I laugh whenever Gene talks about a "secular decline" in comic collectors, but when you view everyone in this hobby as scum, no amount of obsessive compulsive satisfaction is worth staying in it.

 

So stay on your highhorse, Dan. I'm sure you're saying, "Shilling is a way of life, if you don't do it you risk losing out, 893blahblah.gif. Caveat Emptor and all that jazz." But you're no better than the rest of the people giving this hobby a bad name. And pretty soon people like yourself are all that's going to be left.

 

Your friend,

Alan

 

 

Ouch..

 

I think the points you brought up are also my beef with this whole thing.

His attitude towards his initial accusers, and how he decided to deal with it, or rather not deal with it.

 

In the end... we will all still buy comics, from him, or someone else. Who knows if the price will be fair. Who knows if a friend is fleecing us for a few more coins or not.

If we want the book and are willing to pay x amount for it. Then that is just part of the game I guess.

It is sad though when information like this is brought to light. All it does is damage friendships, and sour our love for a hobby we all care deeply about.

 

Heck... makes me wonder if I would be better off not knowing any of this.

Naw..

Of course I wanna know, let me decide which is the lesser of two evils , if it comes down to that.

 

 

Kenny

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
Heck... makes me wonder if I would be better off not knowing any of this.

 

I can say that about a multitude of "revelations" learned since joining this Forum. It seems the more I learn about the hobby, the more jaded I get towards it. Being naive to some of the seedier, or greed motivated, actions in this hobby, while not ideal, sure made me a more content collector...

 

Jim

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted

I have only been casually paying attention to the boards the last few days, and was recently checking some threads and saw this going on.

 

First of all, I think it's outrageous that everyone is getting this amped up about something Dan did to one of his auctions. In the big scheme of things, is it that big of a deal? Do I necessarily agree with the practice of shill bidding? No, not really. I think that it's probably not the right thing to do. But what I've read here is people proclaiming that Dan is now somehow the devil and that he should be chastized for being such a dishonest seller.

 

I would be the first one to come down hard on a seller if I believed this was a pattern of behavior or something that I saw was a regular thing with Dan... it's not. He's had over 5,000 transactions (at least) and this is the first instance anyone has ever brought up regarding shilling. Perhaps it was a mistake to shill the auction, but the first thing that people here do is go on the attack. I agree that going after a dealer who does dishonest things or a clearly fraudulent ebay seller like comic keys is something we should be policing, but to attack a long standing board member for one instance is ludicrous to me.

 

I've met Dan a number of times and known him through the boards for a few years. Each time I've met him, he's been a stand up guy. I think it's interesting that we are all so quick to judge and pass our judgments as to the moral character of others.

 

I'm glad I joined a community of saints and that everyone here is perfect and has never had any moral transgressions in any aspect of their lives.

 

At worst, this was a mistake made by Dan. I'm not even convinced it was anything all that terrible.

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october

october

Posted
Posted

Read the whole thread. It was not an isolated incident. Rip just provided a link that shows FD shilled his brother's Cubs Ticket auction. As far as being a saint, I am not. I am also not a thief or a liar. FD is. I don't expect perfection out of others, but I am not going to give a [#@$%!!!] eBay Powerseller a break when we have already found two clear examples of shilling. The guy is a jerk, I don't care how many posts he has, or how many comics he has sold. He shilled at least twice, he lied, and he is now worthless in my book. Feel free to think otherwise...

 

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