october Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, tth2 said: Are these long-time collectors who for whatever reason never bought a copy before, or is it the mythical new collector whose interest has been piqued by the movies and wants to now own a copy of his first appearance, meaning that the number of collectors who want a copy has actually increased? Maybe some of both, but I suspect that it's neither. I think speculators have been drawn to AF 15 with the promise of easy and ever increasing returns. This board represents a distinct subset of the hobby. We don't encounter some other types of enthusiasts much. As an example, I have been on Instagram for about six months, and there are a lot of young guys on there who constantly buy/sell/trade at a rapid pace, keeping nothing for longer than a year. They are not doing this with ASM 300s.....I am talking AF 15s, Hulk 1s, Showcase 4s, Superman 1s, Cap 1s, etc. It's a VERY different ballgame and this constant churning of books can definitely contribute to fairly rapid price increases. Edited June 23, 2017 by october Ricksneatstuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 11 hours ago, lou_fine said: Oh, come on, you party poopers! Why do you take such a fun thread as Jon's amazing once in a lifetime comic book collection and turn it into a depressing discussion on taxes. I was responding to your post on the subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
october Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 8 hours ago, Et-Es-Go said: Seriously Lou, you have been the ultimate crapper on this thread. The last several post of yours have been about perceived value, how to recoup that value, who gets left holding the bag, etc... And now you call BS on a guy who asks a question about taxes? Neither subject (your own BS or taxes) was what this thread was about, it devolved (with your help) into a debate about what is something worth, how much money will it return to me, the guide is wrong, etc.... Try...... Please just try to look at the bright side of life. This was an epic auction for the hobby, people went after what they wanted and some came away happy, others not so much. This was not about "investing" for the vast majority of the sales. This was about collectors getting some very significant once in a lifetime opportunities at books that will be squirreled away into long time collections for the foreseeable future, and they paid what was comfortable to them. I can also concur with your position that people paid what I consider to be a lot of money for certain books, but I won't say the overpaid since this was an auction venue. I will use Amazing Man #22 here as an example. I would love to have that book, wanted it forever, and I only have 3/4 of one (missing the Green Nazi Gorillas of course). But I had no idea that other folks would pay so much money for it ( in my little world anyway), and congratulation to SushiX for bringing that book home (did the kitty really go to a sushi restaurant for that avatar picture?). It is really all relative to what you compare your experience to. There are many many many people out there, that for the life of them, cannot and will not understand why anyone would pay a significant amount of money for an old comic book. Enjoy stuff like this. Life is too short to fret that much. If you are a collector of golden age books your doing OK, its not a cheap hobby. Now, I gotta go dig up my copy of CBM #71 as one of the boardies here posted that Jon had a Larson article published in that issue with more details about how he found Lamont and what he found (a list?). Would that not be the coolest thing? So hey Lamont, is there anything in the shed out in the backyard? Word. I know that some results are shocking, but this was a shocking selection of books. No one should really be shocked by the shockingness. porcupine48 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Mentallo Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, Sqeggs said: They definitely have. ComicConnect is giving buyers in the Berk auction six months to pay. Not me, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllStar-Comics Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 43 minutes ago, october said: Maybe some of both, but I suspect that it's neither. I think speculators have been drawn to AF 15 with the promise of easy and ever increasing returns. This board represents a distinct subset of the hobby. We don't encounter some other types of enthusiasts much. As an example, I have been on Instagram for about six months, and there are a lot of young guys on there who constantly buy/sell/trade at a rapid pace, keeping nothing for longer than a year. They are not doing this with ASM 300s.....I am talking AF 15s, Hulk 1s, Showcase 4s, Superman 1s, Cap 1s, etc. It's a VERY different ballgame and this constant churning of books can definitely contribute to fairly rapid price increases. Those will be the first to leave if there is a dip. Its happened before, soon as they go to flip and cannot make a profit and are left holding the bag they disappear. Not sure one can expect never ending increases on any collectible without some slowdowns or downturns. Also the same people generally are cash flow poor so they have to turn stuff almost immediately to fund the next flip purchase (not saying all of them) october 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sqeggs said: 12 hours ago, lou_fine said: Oh, come on, you party poopers! Why do you take such a fun thread as Jon's amazing once in a lifetime comic book collection and turn it into a depressing discussion on taxes. I was responding to your post on the subject! Well, of course it's present company included. At least I was trying be a bit more lighthearted about the situation by talking about claiming offsetting taxable losses for disposing of our drek comic books that we've all accumulated over the years. Edited June 23, 2017 by lou_fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 1 hour ago, october said: I know that some results are shocking, but this was a shocking selection of books. No one should really be shocked by the shockingness. I found your post electrifying, Mr. Shocky McShockface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjpb Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 1 hour ago, october said: Maybe some of both, but I suspect that it's neither. I think speculators have been drawn to AF 15 with the promise of easy and ever increasing returns. This board represents a distinct subset of the hobby. We don't encounter some other types of enthusiasts much. As an example, I have been on Instagram for about six months, and there are a lot of young guys on there who constantly buy/sell/trade at a rapid pace, keeping nothing for longer than a year. They are not doing this with ASM 300s.....I am talking AF 15s, Hulk 1s, Showcase 4s, Superman 1s, Cap 1s, etc. It's a VERY different ballgame and this constant churning of books can definitely contribute to fairly rapid price increases. There's nothing wrong with this model per se, many fans raise funds buying with an intent to resell, whether immediately or waiting for an expected rise shorter term, and I'd argue it's not like trading stocks, the knowledge and time invested to do this profitably requires some degree of passion for the hobby. The danger comes when it is flippers selling to flippers - that merry-go-round can come to a sudden stop. You see this with hot moderns with some frequency, and often the one left "holding the bag", so to speak, is the fan who bought high with the intent to keep the book. Still, the demand for long recognized GA keys generally outstrips demand, and even if certain of these books plateau or even dip in realized values, they are unlikely to crash quickly. AF #15, seems a bit riskier prospect, perhaps in part driven up in value in the wake of escalating prices for GA keys - 10k for a beat-up copy of the first Spider-man appearance, doesn't sound like that much when compared to 200K for a beat-up first appearance of Superman - until one realizes that there also at least 30 times as many copies floating around the marketplace. But I also get the feeling that for many who buy a copy - paying for an AF #15 is a real stretch - with credit card payments, and bank accounts depleted to buy a copy justified by investment value, and I wonder if this accounts for no small part of the marketplace churn, as new cars, schooling, housing down payments, etc, result in these books returning to market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, october said: 11 hours ago, Et-Es-Go said: This was an epic auction for the hobby, people went after what they wanted and some came away happy, others not so much. This was not about "investing" for the vast majority of the sales. This was about collectors getting some very significant once in a lifetime opportunities at books that will be squirreled away into long time collections for the foreseeable future, and they paid what was comfortable to them. Word. I know that some results are shocking, but this was a shocking selection of books. No one should really be shocked by the shockingness. As I have posted here right from the beginning back in March when the news first came out, this is a generational auction and indeed an once in a lifetime opportunity for collectors to finally obtain some true HTF books that have not been available in the marketplace for decades. And as Vinnie said in the Scoop newsletter today, this auction attracted "old school super-fans who haven't been active in decades", especially in my case when it comes to bidding in auctions. Yes indeed, a lot of the results at first blush may indeed appear to rather shocking, but if you look at the true rarity of some of the books themselves and how often they come to market, if ever, or at the condition and pedigree of some of them, it's really not that shocking at all. As I have already said, if I had known what I knew heading into the final days of the auction, I definitely would have place higher bids on books such as some of the early Amazing Mystery Funnies which I had missed on the first day amongst others, even though the final prices realized were already extremely high. Of course, it still doesn't mean that I would have won them in the end. Another example were the Church copies of Wonderworld 7 and Mystery Men 3 going for $66K and $57K respectively. Although the prices may appear to be high and a bit shocking to some, are they really since these are the best copies of the books to date from the acknowledged top pedigree in our hobby and will most likely never be beat. If you gave me a choice between these 2 books and the 19th rank graded unrestored copy of 'Tec 29 and the 28th rank graded unrestored copy of 'Tec 38 which sold for $66K and just over $54K respectively back in March, I know which which 2 I would go for. Especially when there are also a further 23 and 42 restored copies respectively for 'Tec 29 and 'Tec 38 that graded higher than the copies sold in March. Of course, both of those much in-demand books appeared much nicer than their assigned 3.0 grades, but that's another story I guess. Edited June 23, 2017 by lou_fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 10 hours ago, Bronty said: There was a mix of scans and photos . Some of the books looked very, very good. Many looked very, very fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, MrBedrock said: 10 hours ago, Bronty said: There was a mix of scans and photos . Some of the books looked very, very good. Many looked very, very fine. And some of them looked very minty fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, MrBedrock said: Many looked very, very fine. That joke was fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bronty said: That joke was fair. That's better than excre mint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, MrBedrock said: That's better than excre mint. And better than Poo r. Edited June 23, 2017 by Bronty MrBedrock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Mentallo Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Bronty said: And better than Poo r. Scatological panelology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Flex Mentallo said: Scatological panelology? You're ca-ca ca-raaazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Mentallo Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just now, Bronty said: You're ca-ca ca-raaazy Dont dillydally in the duodenum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just now, Flex Mentallo said: Dont dillydally in the duodenum A bit forced. Like my last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flex Mentallo Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bronty said: A bit forced. Like my last one. That's enematic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Flex Mentallo said: That's enematic These jokes are nutty. Corny almost. gino2paulus2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
