Marvel's Falling Sales 6 6

[lizards2]

4 hours ago, rjrjr said:

11 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Why did Marvel replace Joe Q with Axel Alonso? It seems like Marvel was way better under Joe Q than Alonso.

Joe Quesada was promoted.

Was it a disciplinary promotion?

[1Cool]

4 hours ago, rjrjr said:

Chuck, I agree with all of what you wrote here.  Only a vocal few are complaining about diversity.

I still believe the big problem is Marvel has conditioned their readers to not collect comics anymore.  (They killed off any loyalty their fans use to have.)  There are a ton of comic collectors who collect nothing but key comics or hot variant covers, etc. but very, very few are invested anymore into collecting a title or a character.  It makes sense why this happened, Marvel kept renumbering titles (making it easy for collectors to jump off a title) and introducing umpteen variants, making it impossible to actually collect a title unless you are wealthy.  They've brought this on themselves.  If you like reading comics and collecting them and Marvel has made it impossible to collect a title, what do you do?

Those who have been disenfranchised from collecting them but still like to read them have instead turned to reading them on the internet.  And, there are about half a dozen websites where you can read the new comics on Wednesday for free without having to deal with Marvel's shenanigan or pay them a dime.  They don't require any special software, just a browser.  So, you can read comics for free, not bother with buying the mass of variants Marvel is publishing, and spend the money you save on new issues to buy keys if you are spending money at all.  It is not a coincidence that several popular, free websites have popped up (no doubt in foreign countries, otherwise they would have been shutdown by now) that have the comics posted the same day they go on sale at stores and at the same time Marvel's sales are declining.  And we are seeing a spike in the value of keys.  IMHO, all these events are interrelated.

I still feel this is going to end badly for comic publishers.  I think DC has realized this and have stopped with the bazillion variants.  They are less likely to reboot titles.  It feels like they are trying to recapture the loyalty they once had with fans.  I'm not sure Marvel has learned any lessons from the interviews I've been reading.  

And it will be interesting to see how those website are dealt with.  Disney and Warner Bros. have to know about these sites, yet they continue to grow and publish more and more comics over time.  I remember the few websites that tried this a few years ago were shut down pretty quickly.  These new sites have figured a way around this.

I'm not sure DC is any better.  I loved the new Batmans 52 series since it was well written and great art.  Problem is they rebooted the series and now the old 52 books are dropping in price like a rock.  Even the best books don't survive as a high ticket collectible if the series has a new #1 every few years.

Edited April 10, 2017 by 1Cool

[ADAMANTIUM]

17 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I'm not sure DC is any better.  I loved the new Batmans 52 series since it was well written and great art.  Problem is they rebooted the series and now the old 52 books are dropping in price like a rock.  Even the best books don't survive as a high ticket collectible if the series has a new #1 every few years.

+1  THis  

[Get Marwood & I]

Something tells me that if Marvel put it's house in order, and started producing a smaller number of well written, well drawn and reasonably priced titles, which reflected the spirit of the characters, their history and continuity, and which were available freely on the high street, nothing would change. 

People like us would be happy, as we'd recognise the change as a logical attempt at recapturing the 'glory' years. The trouble is, kids are not interested in paper comics. When I was a kid, there was comics, TV, films and music (i.e. vinyl). Is stands to reason that they would form the bedrock of my entertainment life. And, probably, yours.

Nowadays, there is nothing - nothing - that any kid cannot summon up on his or her phone, whether it be extreme porn, youtube videos, entire movies or their friends social life, in an instant. Everything is available in an instant. Why would any kid want to spend $4 on a comic when he can see the content of that comic fully realised on screen, or for the same money on a DVD a few months after it's release?

I think the numbers are falling because we are starting to stop buying comics. We, the 40-60 year olds, who are tired of what the industry has become.

I do not know one kid in my life who shows any interest in comics. They go "wow" when you show them your collection, and then scamper off to watch a youtube video of a dog skydiving with a hedgehog. Or play a computer game in which, with today's graphics, they could almost be there themselves, shooting up the bad guys.

It's frankly ludicrous for any of us to think that kids would want to join this hobby. Even if they do - and there will always be some - what does our hobby have to offer? Over priced, badly constructed books which bear no resemblance to the heroes they see on screen or in the media, which come with ridiculously expensive variants that the kids have no hope of buying. And that is the new stuff - their market! The old stuff, while cheap in the main, anything of note now commands the sort of money you would put down on a new car. Or House.

My belief, which may be wrong, is that comics are dead. Vinyl, books - everything that predated the digital age - is dead. There are brief flourishes. But that is because people like us are buying the stuff when it's good, not kids.

When a kid brought up in today's market reaches maturity, are we really saying he will want to recapture his or her youth by buying the Ms. Marvel 10 issue run from his or her youth?

We are the last of the comic people. There will always be comics, but they will be a niche collectable for the very rich, fuelled by TV and Film, not new paper comics. The men and women of the future will still want to won Amazing Fantasy 15, but not because they enjoyed Amazing Spider-Man volume 89 during their youth. It will be because they enjoyed the 17th film reboot starring Stacey Scribbins (Spidey will be a girl in the future of course).

It's sad, but also great. We are the lucky ones. We lived in the paper comic / vinyl record age, where there was one Star Wars film. 

When our kids are old, they'll lament their old days, and the things that mattered to them, just as we do now.

I posted on these boards once that everything good about comics is in the past. I got some stick for it.

But though I could be wrong, it is what I believe.

Bang!

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Marwood & I
I can't spell propally

[ComicConnoisseur]

5 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat this but:

The number of NEW characters at Marvel Comics is always going to be minuscule. If, as a writer or artist, you create a character for Marvel, you don't own it. So you don't reap the benefits that could come along, should it be made into a movie. 

You save that idea for your self published or creator owned published comic. 

So no one wants to create NEW characters for Marvel. Get it?

So the majority of the time, 'new' characters in the Marvel Universe are re-hashes of the old. 

This isn't something NEW, nor is the use of non-white replacements - Captain Marvel was a Black female in 1989, SHE-Hulk came along in 1980, Spider-GIRL, Spider-WOMAN, Bishop, Storm, etc., geez Black Panther came along in 1966.

That was an attempt to be DIVERSE. We're Stan and Jack SJW's?

Marvel's current diversity has nothing to do with 'Social Justice' or whatever code words you political dorks want to mask with - it has to do with an ageing audience of collectors who aren't buying the product anyway. Marvel's trying to sell to everyone they can, because their superhero comics have been declining for years. 

Take away the Star Wars sales of 2015, before this current 'diversity' really began and the decline was there. 

BEFORE that the decline was there.

It's been in decline for 20 years. Really, it hasn't been a 'House of Ideas' since Jack Kirby left.

It's had it's moments... a run here, a run there, but even some of those runs were simply rehashing of old stories told in a slightly different way - the Green Goblin is now the deceased (who'll later be resurrected of course) father's son's psychologist! Yawn. 

Yeah...for those wanting 'new ideas' who continue to read and support Marvel or who only recently quit, I have news for you - you're sending mixed messages to the publisher.  

Marvel has been regurgitating the same stories for 50+ years, and you've kept buying it. The SAME stories. 

Turn Thor into a frog and shake things up - people complain - it still sells x copies - bring back regular Thor - get a sales spike - rinse and repeat. 

Except NOW, if you have a woman holding the hammer, it must be because they're a 'progressive', or whatever political masked curse word they use... when in reality it's simply Marvel running out of ideas to regurgitate, and trying to sell into as many foreign markets as possible, so they can sell more movie tickets - because YOU aren't as loyal as you used to be. 

A whole legion of fans aren't as loyal as they used to be. The numbers have dwindled for decades now. That spike in the 90's was an illusion. It wasn't satisfied readers. 

So blame the decline on 'diversity' if you want, it's an easy target. But really, you're missing the big picture. Marvel has been on the decline for 20+ years. 

 

Good post.

I thought the real decline started to happen when the Image Guys left in the early 1990s.

That really did change things with artists and Marvel. The genie was let out of the bottle for the whole industry.

Marvel then tried to spin ok now we got all these great writers like  Ellis,Morrison, Case, Brubaker,Bendis,and countless others. The only thing was these same writers they touted figured out the same thing the Image artists did is it is more profitable to create your own characters,and most of them left.

What I think Marvel really needs to do is hire young guns. People who can give their comics a new perspective. Comics constantly need new writers/artists,and I don`t see that.

Why the 1980s to early 1990s was so good was the influx of new talent. Alan Moore,Neil Gaiman and such were new and refreshing.Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee were new and refreshing.

Marvel needs to look and find new blood,and pay them better so they stay.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

9 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Something tells me that if Marvel put it's house in order, and started producing a smaller number of well written, well drawn and reasonably priced titles, which reflected the spirit of the characters, their history and continuity, and which were available freely on the high street, nothing would change. 

People like us would be happy, as we'd recognise the change as a logical attempt at recapturing the 'glory' years. The trouble is, kids are not interested in paper comics. When I was a kid, there was comics, TV, films and music (i.e. vinyl). Is stands to reason that they would form the bedrock of my entertainment life. And, probably, yours.

Nowadays, there is nothing - nothing - that any kid cannot summon up on his or her phone, whether it be extreme porn, youtube videos, entire movies or their friends social life, in an instant. Everything is available in an instant. Why would any kid want to spend $4 on a comic when he can see the content of that comic fully realised on screen, or for the same money on a DVD a few months after it's release?

I think the numbers are falling because we are starting to stop buying comics. We, the 40-60 year olds, who are tired of what the industry has become.

I do not know one kid in my life who shows any interest in comics. They go "wow" when you show them your collection, and then scamper off to watch a youtube video of a dog skydiving with a hedgehog. Or play a computer game in which, with today's graphics, they could almost be there themselves, shooting up the bad guys.

It's frankly ludicrous for any of us to think that kids would want to join this hobby. Even if they do - and there will always be some - what does our hobby have to offer? Over priced, badly constructed books which bear no resemblance to the heroes they see on screen or in the media, which come with ridiculously expensive variants that the kids have no hope of buying. And that is the new stuff - their market! The old stuff, while cheap in the main, anything of note now commands the sort of money you would put down on a new car. Or House.

My belief, which may be wrong, is that comics are dead. Vinyl, books - everything that predated the digital age - is dead. There are brief flourishes. But that is because people like us are buying the stuff when it's good, not kids.

When a kid brought up in today's market reaches maturity, are we really saying he will want to recapture his or her youth by buying the Ms. Marvel 10 issue run from his or her youth?

We are the last of the comic people. There will always be comics, but they will be a niche collectable for the very rich, fuelled by TV and Film, not new paper comics. The men and women of the future will still want to won Amazing Fantasy 15, but not because they enjoyed Amazing Spider-Man volume 89 during their youth. It will be because they enjoyed the 17th film reboot starring Stacey Scribbins (Spidey will be a girl in the future of course).

It's sad, but also great. We are the lucky ones. We lived in the paper comic / vinyl record age, where there was one Star Wars film. 

When our kids are old, they'll lament their old days, and the things that mattered to them, just as we do now.

I posted on these boards once that everything good about comics is in the past. I got some stick for it.

But though I could be wrong, it is what I believe.

Bang!

 

I think you are right. I would say the 1990s generation is probably the last of the comic people. People still have fond memories of McFarlane,Jim Lee,The Batman breaking back and Death of Superman storylines. They were bought in millions. I just don`'t see people who collected from 2000 to 2017 being that nostalgic in the same numbers as the 1950s to 1990s comic people.

Also good point about spending $4 on a comic. I think that apply`s to many comic readers. As why would you want to spend $4 on a 15 minute read while Comixology is unlimited reads for $4.99 a month?

One other point.

I know a lot of of people knock speculators because of variants and such,but I am starting to see why they do them. If Marvels sales are this low with variants. Imagine if they stopped variants how low the sales would be? 

[1Cool]

24 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Something tells me that if Marvel put it's house in order, and started producing a smaller number of well written, well drawn and reasonably priced titles, which reflected the spirit of the characters, their history and continuity, and which were available freely on the high street, nothing would change. 

People like us would be happy, as we'd recognise the change as a logical attempt at recapturing the 'glory' years. The trouble is, kids are not interested in paper comics. When I was a kid, there was comics, TV, films and music (i.e. vinyl). Is stands to reason that they would form the bedrock of my entertainment life. And, probably, yours.

Nowadays, there is nothing - nothing - that any kid cannot summon up on his or her phone, whether it be extreme porn, youtube videos, entire movies or their friends social life, in an instant. Everything is available in an instant. Why would any kid want to spend $4 on a comic when he can see the content of that comic fully realised on screen, or for the same money on a DVD a few months after it's release?

I think the numbers are falling because we are starting to stop buying comics. We, the 40-60 year olds, who are tired of what the industry has become.

I do not know one kid in my life who shows any interest in comics. They go "wow" when you show them your collection, and then scamper off to watch a youtube video of a dog skydiving with a hedgehog. Or play a computer game in which, with today's graphics, they could almost be there themselves, shooting up the bad guys.

It's frankly ludicrous for any of us to think that kids would want to join this hobby. Even if they do - and there will always be some - what does our hobby have to offer? Over priced, badly constructed books which bear no resemblance to the heroes they see on screen or in the media, which come with ridiculously expensive variants that the kids have no hope of buying. And that is the new stuff - their market! The old stuff, while cheap in the main, anything of note now commands the sort of money you would put down on a new car. Or House.

My belief, which may be wrong, is that comics are dead. Vinyl, books - everything that predated the digital age - is dead. There are brief flourishes. But that is because people like us are buying the stuff when it's good, not kids.

When a kid brought up in today's market reaches maturity, are we really saying he will want to recapture his or her youth by buying the Ms. Marvel 10 issue run from his or her youth?

We are the last of the comic people. There will always be comics, but they will be a niche collectable for the very rich, fuelled by TV and Film, not new paper comics. The men and women of the future will still want to won Amazing Fantasy 15, but not because they enjoyed Amazing Spider-Man volume 89 during their youth. It will be because they enjoyed the 17th film reboot starring Stacey Scribbins (Spidey will be a girl in the future of course).

It's sad, but also great. We are the lucky ones. We lived in the paper comic / vinyl record age, where there was one Star Wars film. 

When our kids are old, they'll lament their old days, and the things that mattered to them, just as we do now.

I posted on these boards once that everything good about comics is in the past. I got some stick for it.

But though I could be wrong, it is what I believe.

Bang!

 

Comics are not dead by a long shot but you are correct that the 35-75 year olds are keeping it alive and at the level we have become accustomed to.  The good news is that cross-section of the population is huge and there are still a ton of guys who have not tried to relive their childhood yet so the market has a long life left.  Just don't look out 25-30 years and the market should be healthy as ever.  The fact that modern books seem to be in trouble says the current books are not meeting the needs of the older 35-75 year old collector and every effort should be made to regain these buyers at any cost. 

Side thought - comics started off as a cheap entertainment for children who didn't want to read novels (or the bible) like their parents.  Selling to only adults would have been completely foreign to the Golden Age comic producers (other then the horror EC guys) and I'm sure people would have laughed if anyone suggested it.  Even in the 1950-60s adult comic book readers and collectors where basically laughed at by the general public and media.  Fast forward into the 1980-1990s where everyone seemed to be reading and collecting long boxes of books and the books themselves switched from middle school reading to some very adults story lines and collecting practices.  Kids moved on to video games and paying cards and adults kept right on collecting the paper comics from their youth.  I'd guess readership of comics is now 90% adults and 10% kids so the books have to be even more slanted toward our wants (Preacher, Fables, Saga).  Comics now are not cheap entertainment but instead an investment for some, a collection of memories for others but is the medium really meant for us?  I've gotten to the point I enjoy reading a good novel before bed and beside the pool rather then a stack of comics like I did in the past.  You mentioned the 40-60 years have stopped buying books as much but is that the natural flow of the hobby that we have extended past it's life cycle?

[Get Marwood & I]

5 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I think you are right. I would say the 1990s generation is probably the last of the comic people. People still have fond memories of McFarlane,Jim Lee,The Batman breaking back and Death of Superman storylines. They were bought in millions. I just don`'t see people who collected from 2000 to 2017 being that nostalgic in the same numbers as the 1950s to 1990s comic people.

Also good point about spending $4 on a comic. I think that apply`s to many comic readers. As why would you want to spend $4 on a 15 minute read while Comixology is unlimited reads for $4.99 a month?

One other point.

I know a lot of of people knock speculators because of variants and such,but I am starting to see why they do them. If Marvels sales are this low with variants. Imagine if they stopped variants how low the sales would be? 

Thanks for the support. Regarding the last point, I can see what you're saying but speaking from experience I know at least 8 serious collectors who have stopped completely because of the variants (all completists I might add, so maybe not fully representative). I can see arguments both ways, but my instinct is that if variants were limited to special events, and had more than just a poorly thrown together cover, then us the comic people would maybe continue collecting.  It feels like a vicious circle - because the numbers are so low, push out scores of variants. But we don't like them (in the main) so it's a negative trying to solve a negative. 

Because I feel the way I do (i.e. comics are dead) I actually have ceased to care. Sure, I'd like it not to be this way, but I'm resigned to it. One of my favourite quotes in life is that there is nothing good in the world that the right group of people can't contrive to f*** up. Marvel, on this occasion, are, sadly, those people.

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 hour ago, 1Cool said:

I'm not sure DC is any better.  I loved the new Batmans 52 series since it was well written and great art.  Problem is they rebooted the series and now the old 52 books are dropping in price like a rock.  Even the best books don't survive as a high ticket collectible if the series has a new #1 every few years.

I think what the big concern is both Marvel and DC super hero movies have made billions,but they still couldn't pull in enough new readers to stop low sales. They did not take advantage of all those new movie fans and convert them into regular readers.

I still think the cover price is what kills it. $2.99 to $3.99 is very unappealing. That is more than a gallon of gas. So do I fill up my tank or go buy 4 or 5 brand new shiny number one comics that will be canceled to be rebooted in a year?

Also, accessibility to read these print comics. It is actually easier to find and read digital comics than go find and read print comics.  I am a long-time comic reader,so I know where the lcs is,but what if you are new? Are you going to drive to look for some out of the way place or just order your comic books online?

 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Comics are not dead by a long shot but you are correct that the 35-75 year olds are keeping it alive and at the level we have become accustomed to.  The good news is that cross-section of the population is huge and there are still a ton of guys who have not tried to relive their childhood yet so the market has a long life left.  Just don't look out 25-30 years and the market should be healthy as ever.  The fact that modern books seem to be in trouble says the current books are not meeting the needs of the older 35-75 year old collector and every effort should be made to regain these buyers at any cost. 

Side thought - comics started off as a cheap entertainment for children who didn't want to read novels (or the bible) like their parents.  Selling to only adults would have been completely foreign to the Golden Age comic producers (other then the horror EC guys) and I'm sure people would have laughed if anyone suggested it.  Even in the 1950-60s adult comic book readers and collectors where basically laughed at by the general public and media.  Fast forward into the 1980-1990s where everyone seemed to be reading and collecting long boxes of books and the books themselves switched from middle school reading to some very adults story lines and collecting practices.  Kids moved on to video games and paying cards and adults kept right on collecting the paper comics from their youth.  I'd guess readership of comics is now 90% adults and 10% kids so the books have to be even more slanted toward our wants (Preacher, Fables, Saga).  Comics now are not cheap entertainment but instead an investment for some, a collection of memories for others but is the medium really meant for us?  I've gotten to the point I enjoy reading a good novel before bed and beside the pool rather then a stack of comics like I did in the past.  You mentioned the 40-60 years have stopped buying books as much but is that the natural flow of the hobby that we have extended past it's life cycle?

 

It could be, and I just don't see who will replace us. The numbers on everything seem to be reducing year on year. Fewer comic shops, fewer fairs (over here), fewer sales, fewer kids getting involved in actual collecting (they do like cosplay though). Meanwhile the are too many books and the prices are too high......

[1Cool]

15 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

 

It could be, and I just don't see who will replace us. The numbers on everything seem to be reducing year on year. Fewer comic shops, fewer fairs (over here), fewer sales, fewer kids getting involved in actual collecting (they do like cosplay though). Meanwhile the are too many books and the prices are too high......

Like you said - nature hates a vacuum.  Comics came about because kids were bored and paper was cheap.  Kids are definitely not bored anymore and don't want (and definitely don't need) paper books to tell them a story about a fantasy world.  Computers do a much better job of that then any paper comic will ever be able to.  I'm sure higher ups at Marvel and DC see this same trend and it boggles my mind why they are not riding the next 20-30 year wave of comic sales with an eye on a transition to another business instead of constantly changing the market in an attempt to change the future.  Is it worth losing the current middle age buyers to thwart the inevitable decline (collapse?) in the industry that is looming in the far off future?

[Get Marwood & I]

4 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Like you said - nature hates a vacuum.  Comics came about because kids were bored and paper was cheap.  Kids are definitely not bored anymore and don't want (and definitely don't need) paper books to tell them a story about a fantasy world.  Computers do a much better job of that then any paper comic will ever be able to.  I'm sure higher ups at Marvel and DC see this same trend and it boggles my mind why they are not riding the next 20-30 year wave of comic sales with an eye on a transition to another business instead of constantly changing the market in an attempt to change the future.  Is it worth losing the current middle age buyers to thwart the inevitable decline (collapse?) in the industry that is looming in the far off future?

See below!

21 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

One of my favourite quotes in life is that there is nothing good in the world that the right group of people can't contrive to f*** up. Marvel, on this occasion, are, sadly, those people.

 

[Prince Namor]

6 hours ago, rjrjr said:

Chuck, I agree with all of what you wrote here.  Only a vocal few are complaining about diversity.

I still believe the big problem is Marvel has conditioned their readers to not collect comics anymore.  (They killed off any loyalty their fans use to have.)  There are a ton of comic collectors who collect nothing but key comics or hot variant covers, etc. but very, very few are invested anymore into collecting a title or a character.  It makes sense why this happened, Marvel kept renumbering titles (making it easy for collectors to jump off a title) and introducing umpteen variants, making it impossible to actually collect a title unless you are wealthy.  They've brought this on themselves.  If you like reading comics and collecting them and Marvel has made it impossible to collect a title, what do you do?

Those who have been disenfranchised from collecting them but still like to read them have instead turned to reading them on the internet.  And, there are about half a dozen websites where you can read the new comics on Wednesday for free without having to deal with Marvel's shenanigan or pay them a dime.  They don't require any special software, just a browser.  So, you can read comics for free, not bother with buying the mass of variants Marvel is publishing, and spend the money you save on new issues to buy keys if you are spending money at all.  It is not a coincidence that several popular, free websites have popped up (no doubt in foreign countries, otherwise they would have been shutdown by now) that have the comics posted the same day they go on sale at stores and at the same time Marvel's sales are declining.  And we are seeing a spike in the value of keys.  IMHO, all these events are interrelated.

I still feel this is going to end badly for comic publishers.  I think DC has realized this and have stopped with the bazillion variants.  They are less likely to reboot titles.  It feels like they are trying to recapture the loyalty they once had with fans.  I'm not sure Marvel has learned any lessons from the interviews I've been reading.  

And it will be interesting to see how those website are dealt with.  Disney and Warner Bros. have to know about these sites, yet they continue to grow and publish more and more comics over time.  I remember the few websites that tried this a few years ago were shut down pretty quickly.  These new sites have figured a way around this.

Yep. It's as if the only way they know how to create added sales is through speculation, and that does not attract readers.

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, 1Cool said:

I'm not sure DC is any better.  I loved the new Batmans 52 series since it was well written and great art.  Problem is they rebooted the series and now the old 52 books are dropping in price like a rock.  Even the best books don't survive as a high ticket collectible if the series has a new #1 every few years.

Price value has nothing to do with quality of story and art. As long as we continue to focus on making and buying comics as collectibles, we'll continue to lose readership. It's a losing game.

 

[1Cool]

13 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Price value has nothing to do with quality of story and art. As long as we continue to focus on making and buying comics as collectibles, we'll continue to lose readership. It's a losing game.

 

I disagree.  Focusing all their effort on making a collectible is definitely a bad thing but disregarding the back issue market with constant renumbering is equally bad in my opinion.

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Good post.

I thought the real decline started to happen when the Image Guys left in the early 1990s.

That really did change things with artists and Marvel. The genie was let out of the bottle for the whole industry.

Marvel then tried to spin ok now we got all these great writers like  Ellis,Morrison, Case, Brubaker,Bendis,and countless others. The only thing was these same writers they touted figured out the same thing the Image artists did is it is more profitable to create your own characters,and most of them left.

What I think Marvel really needs to do is hire young guns. People who can give their comics a new perspective. Comics constantly need new writers/artists,and I don`t see that.

Why the 1980s to early 1990s was so good was the influx of new talent. Alan Moore,Neil Gaiman and such were new and refreshing.Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee were new and refreshing.

Marvel needs to look and find new blood,and pay them better so they stay.

 

 

Well... McFarlane and gang were popular at Marvel but.... really, most of those comics suck. I can't think of a single thing I'd want to re-read from that era that wouldn't bore me. But they got popular at the time and the secondary market screamed for money, so Marvel had to try and circumvent that and over print... it's what started this whole mess really. That and how Valiant was handled.

What Marvel really needs to do... is separate their comics from their movies and then lease the comic properties out to creators for a year at a time.

[Prince Namor]

3 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I disagree.  Focusing all their effort on making a collectible is definitely a bad thing but disregarding the back issue market with constant renumbering is equally bad in my opinion.

Constant renumbering is horrible for RETAINING readership. But it's the only reason Marvel and DC are still around. The sales spikes they get from it, keep it all going. It's a vicious cycle. The only thing that will stop it is if people stop buying it when they do it. But they won't.

It's like a snake swallowing it's own tail.

[1Cool]

38 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Constant renumbering is horrible for RETAINING readership. But it's the only reason Marvel and DC are still around. The sales spikes they get from it, keep it all going. It's a vicious cycle. The only thing that will stop it is if people stop buying it when they do it. But they won't.

It's like a snake swallowing it's own tail.

I thought I was possibly being overly negative about the future but you are saying Marvel and DC may go under if they kept to one continuous numbering?  The amount of collectors who would want Fantastic Four 824 (for example since I have no idea how many issues they were up to) would not be enough to keep them profitable?  That's truly scary if that is true.

[nWo_22]

Variants are like beer prices at the ballparks, if you people keep buying them (just look at eBay) comic publishers will keep making them.

It's the comic communties fault that variants exist.  I don't even listen to variant covers complaints from anyone anymore.

Marvel Comics seems though is on the verge of bringing back all the characters from what I gathering from that article that started this thread that we love and hold dear because the only color that means anything in our capitalistic country is GREEN!  The market has spoken and Marvel Comics has failed in recent years so they have no choice but to bring this whole thing back to formula.

It was a pathetic attempt from the house of stupidity to think a male dominated marketplace would want to see a female versions of their beloved characters in a laughable attempt again to bring new readership in the mix. Gee you mean it didn't work how shocking.  

There is obviously nothing wrong with bringing diversity into the mix, however not in this forced manner.  If someone or a group wants a comic book character that represents them then thats is awesome and I don't think anyone would be opposed to that obviously. However be creative and create a new character that is representative of that diverse change instead of being lazy and having no talent what so ever.

[Get Marwood & I]

Watch the new Thor trailer for a clue as to why kids may not feel inclined to buy new paper comics from Marvel. What comic can match that kind of excitement in a kids mind? And on the off chance that kid says "that film was great, I must check out the comic it's based on" what will he find? Dead Hulk. Woman Thor. Rubbish stories. 65 current title choices. A gazillion variant covers. A gazillion back issue titles with no obvious clue which is the 'main' title. Incredible Hulk, Indestructible Hulk. Red Hulk. Slightly Miffed Hulk. Hercules in Hulk. Planet Hulk. 

Oh, leave off.