revat Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, kav said: Maybe this example would help. There are no Ditko SS books. A 6.5 Ditko SS would be extremely valuable. Yes that's right the signature, not the condition, would make it valuable. Depending on the book, more valuable than a 9.8. I don't think that's being disputed. And a 7.0 Ditko SS would be worth more than a 6.5CGC SS, and 9.8 Ditko SS might be exponentially more. Obviously there are some cases where a signature adds a premium value beyond the additional costs of getting that book signed and slabbed, and some people are making money that way, sometimes serious money. But to ASSUME THAT ANY SIG AUTOMATICALLY ADDS A VALUE BEYOND THE CGC SS COST would be a bad assumption to make, and a bad assumption to base your economic decisions upon. Pulling outliers means nothing when the point is that every situation is different. It is clear that there are situations where people make money on CGC SS slabs. But I hope people can realize there are just as many situations where there is no money to be made, even if they wanted to, largely because of the CGC grade. If anyone wants to argue anything else about realized premiums, then they either don't understand enough about the CGC SS market or are being purposefully obtuse and argumentative. If Rich Henn or Beach Bum were selling CGC SS 7.5's, they wouldn't be making any money. They profit on those sales ONLY because they provide 9.8's (yes I get that there's the occasional exception). Which again is not to say that anyone doesn't have the right to charge what they want for a service they provide, they absolutely do. But as stated before, it would be a shame to do so BASED ON FALSE ASSUMPTIONS, potentially leaving genuine fans/customers to feel like they've been treated unfairly. I don't think ANYONE wants to make economic decisions based on false assumptions. I just don't know if it can be more clear than that. jsilverjanet, slym2none and RockMyAmadeus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, revat said: I don't think that's being disputed. And a 7.0 Ditko SS would be worth more than a 6.5CGC SS, and 9.8 Ditko SS might be exponentially more. Obviously there are some cases where a signature adds a premium value beyond the additional costs of getting that book signed and slabbed, and some people are making money that way, sometimes serious money. But to ASSUME THAT ANY SIG AUTOMATICALLY ADDS A VALUE BEYOND THE CGC SS COST would be a bad assumption to make, and a bad assumption to base your economic decisions upon. Pulling outliers means nothing when the point is that every situation is different. It is clear that there are situations where people make money on CGC SS slabs. But I hope people can realize there are just as many situations where there is no money to be made, even if they wanted to, largely because of the CGC grade. If anyone wants to argue anything else about realized premiums, then they either don't understand enough about the CGC SS market or are being purposefully obtuse and argumentative. If Rich Henn or Beach Bum were selling CGC SS 7.5's, they wouldn't be making any money. They profit on those sales ONLY because they provide 9.8's (yes I get that there's the occasional exception). Which again is not to say that anyone doesn't have the right to charge what they want for a service they provide, they absolutely do. But as stated before, it would be a shame to do so BASED ON FALSE ASSUMPTIONS, potentially leaving genuine fans/customers to feel like they've been treated unfairly. I don't think ANYONE wants to make economic decisions based on false assumptions. I just don't know if it can be more clear than that. Well RMA has a habit of speaking in absolutes with authority I was just addressing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F For Fake Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said: No. Read it again. It doesn't say "the ONLY thing." It says "the thing." There is a difference in meaning between those two statements, however subtle that difference is perceived to be (and it's not subtle.) No exclusion of other factors is implied, nor should be inferred. That much is made clear by the context of the very next sentence. "Amplify" means "to make larger, greater, or stronger; enlarge; extend." These sorts of misunderstandings...willful or innocent...are why many of my posts are long. Fine. As I said earlier, I'm done with the conversation, but didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. I respect your position, and I have nothing else to say about it. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 9 hours ago, mschmidt said: No, that isn't correct - the vast, vast majority of SS books are witnessed directly by a CGC witness. It's pretty much only sketch cover books where the witness isn't present for the actual sketching, but picks up it from the artist when the book is done. Were the books that started this thread sketch covers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Cool Posted May 17, 2017 Author Share Posted May 17, 2017 Wow this thing has some legs on Facebook. Starlin's post has 1,100 likes and 196 comments with most being "good for you" and "I've thought the same way for years". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzetta Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) I am not with Team Starlin in this matter. While I will readily admit that the creators have the absolute right to deny their signature on any material they so choose, I also have the right to not stand in line for his signature at all. I have no interest in getting a Neal Adams signature anymore due to the way he conducts himself and his pricing. I disagree with those that feel they are entitled to a signature to begin with and on their terms. If he turns you away so be it. Maybe he will change his tune when there is a severe reduction in the number of people lining up to see him. However, the comments made in regards to the CGC workers on FB and other places is kinda not cool. You all know how hard they work and the nonsense that they put up with. Edited May 17, 2017 by Buzzetta jsilverjanet, ADAMANTIUM, AmazingSpider-Fan and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Cool Posted May 17, 2017 Author Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 hour ago, wombat said: Were the books that started this thread sketch covers? Not from what he said. I think he said the books were just signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsilverjanet Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Buzzetta said: I am not with Team Starlin in this matter. While I will readily admit that the creators have the absolute to deny their signature on any material they so choose, I also have the right to not stand in line for his signature at all. I have no interest in getting a Neal Adams signature anymore due to the way he conducts himself and his pricing. I disagree with those that feel they are entitled to a signature to begin with and on their terms. If he turns you away so be it. Maybe he will change his tune when there is a severe reduction in the number of people lining up to see him. However, the comments made in regards to the CGC workers on FB and other places is kinda not cool. You all know how hard they work and the nonsense that they put up with. 1000% agree greggy, badback83, Buzzetta and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 28 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said: 1000% agree Starlin who? 1001% agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Starlin Shmarlin oakman29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F For Fake Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 It's one thing to disagree with Starlin's beef with CGC, but to totally dismiss the guy seems disingenuous. He contributed enormously to the Marvel mythos which is still being very lucratively exploited to this day. Logan510 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I'm very happy I have my Starlin SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, F For Fake said: It's one thing to disagree with Starlin's beef with CGC, but to totally dismiss the guy seems disingenuous. He contributed enormously to the Marvel mythos which is still being very lucratively exploited to this day. I don't know why it's such a big deal, he will still sign books. Who cares if he doesn't want to do the cgc thing. As far as his beef with CGC, that's his preference. So be it. Logan510, F For Fake, Lucky Baru and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, wombat said: I'm very happy I have my Starlin SS. I would give you ten Starlins and a Neal Adams for just one Frazetta sig. badback83 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Just now, oakman29 said: I would give you ten Starlins and a Neal Adams for just one Frazetta sig. I bet you would. oakman29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, oakman29 said: I would give you ten Starlins and a Neal Adams for just one Frazetta sig. I see you and raise 100 Starlins and 430 Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 minute ago, kav said: I see you and raise 100 Starlins and 430 Adams That's alot of birds..... Oh damn, that's Starlings. F For Fake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Just now, oakman29 said: That's alot of birds..... Oh damn, that's Starlings. I'll also throw in as many Stanlee as you will take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Is RMA finally too pooped to spew his wall of text. Logan510 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakman29 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Just now, kav said: I'll also throw in as many Stanlee as you will take One Stan Lee is enough for me, it's not worth nothing anyway. deadleg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
