Marvel comics 1 entry price? 0

[N e r V]

3 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

I think we are getting into somewhat disnegenous territory trying to start calling these GA second printings "variants". 

-J.

I'm not comfortable calling them second printings since they don't state so in the indica and back to press in book publishing is not the same as stated second or later printings. If you have have a more neutral word I'm game. Variant was the best I could offer at the time. Please don't lecture me on it's a second printing though because I already said I disagree with that view (for now without better evidence). 

[bluechip]

45 minutes ago, N e r V said:

I'm not comfortable calling them second printings since they don't state so in the indica and back to press in book publishing is not the same as stated second or later printings. If you have have a more neutral word I'm game. Variant was the best I could offer at the time. Please don't lecture me on it's a second printing though because I already said I disagree with that view (for now without better evidence). 

"Reprint" is clearly seen as a loaded word and it can be argued it doesn't really apply unless the book was out of print for a time, with other issues printed in between.   That doesn't seem to the case with any of the books being discussed here.   Even with the Marvel 1 story about Goodman going back to the presses, we know he didn't print Marvel 2 and 3 or 23, and then go back and reprint Marvel 1.   He rolled some off the presses and then made a change to the cover and indicia and rolled more off the presses.   So, the worst one could say is that they are both first editions with the October copy being a "first state."   I agree with the earlier poster, who said the debate about these issues with different states (or "variants" if you prefer) stems from a fear that some rare key issues will be suddenly devalued.  

I think that fear is mostly unfounded, and I am concerned (or at least bemused) by the leaps that are taken by some people who are worried, and create scenarios like the idea that the Batman 1 with the dot typo was printed first (which would make it the one time I've heard of that a print was changed to create a mistake rather than correct one).    Since I am in this hobby, which has finally gotten some respect, I would like us all to avoid doing things that make us look too silly.   And I am not sure that showing excessive denial about earliest printings doesn't do that, just a bit.  

At the very worst the first printed "October" copies of Marvel 1 should be worth a bit more;   NOT that all the others should be looked down upon or worth a penny less.  And I say that not as a guy who has an October Marvel 1 but used to have one and no longer does.  

Finally, I think that ALL copies of Marvel 1 are currently undervalued.    Detective `1 may be the first issue of the series that went on to introduce Batman (and I am sure others can say more about it), but you don't need a complicated sentence to describe Marvel 1.   It's the first Marvel comic.   

Edited June 10, 2017 by bluechip

[G.A.tor]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

What is the percentage (premium) over November copies these days?

back in the day when marvel 1's seemed to grow on trees, very little to no premium was paid...since then, I am not sure an Oct copy has hit the market recently to determine...

[G.A.tor]

I've only owned 2 Oct  copies of Marvel 1...I've owned a dozen Nov copies...so, the 10/1 ratio is probably a good guesstimate...but as mentioned, except for Peter/silver surfer, he's the only Marvel 1 buyer I've ever sold to that specifically only wanted an Oct copy...every other sale either was unaware (hard to imagine anyone paying 5 figs for a book they didn't research) or didn't care enough to distinquish....

maybe with some education, that will change?, but it hasn't seem to matter all that much the past 75 or so years

[pemart1966]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

I'm not comfortable calling them second printings since they don't state so in the indica and back to press in book publishing is not the same as stated second or later printings. If you have have a more neutral word I'm game. Variant was the best I could offer at the time. Please don't lecture me on it's a second printing though because I already said I disagree with that view (for now without better evidence). 

Sorry, but that's exactly what the November copies are - 2nd printings.  There was obviously a time gap in between the October and November printings.  Goodman would have had to have the info that the October version sold out before deciding to do a second printing.  Enough time went by that he felt he had to change the cover date so as not to have the second printing appear stale dated with an "October" cover date.  

Goodman didn't give a hoot about putting "second printing" in the indica or anywhere else for that matter.  He just wanted the November dated book put out ASAP.  

[porcupine48]

What?Peter,when did you get your copy? @Silver Surfer

[porcupine48]

8 hours ago, N e r V said:

I was thinking of the of the other "variants" we have in GA books. Besides a number of books I've had that have a gloss vs matte finish to their covers that is from printing or the Supes #1 these 3 came to mind.

Batman #1 dot and no dot:

 

Tomb of Terror #13 logo variant:

 

Crime Suspenstories #1 some copies marked #15 inside:

 

 

The above all seem to be variants done in the comics initial printings. In the case of Crime Suspenstories we know the copies marked #15 were done first like we know the October dated Marvel #1's were first but the others ? I've not heard any information on many of these books if you were trying to determine which came first the chicken or the egg. So if you must call them first or second printings (which is fine by me if that's your opinion of things) you are simply not going to be able to determine which is which in many cases. 

Also you have to accept that for now at least far and away most collectors don't view Marvel comics #1 as first or second prints (or worse, a reprint for November copies) just like no one is saying Crime Suspenstories #1 is a second printing or reprint. In both cases the variant does carry a slight premium though.

 

I've always held the opinion if you love a book that much and can afford it buy both. I know of several people that own both Marvels or Batmans in their collections because they view that as being complete. Otherwise if you are in the market for a copy buy the one that you like best and makes you happy.

After all this I want to start a thread on GA variants myself....

add this one too.Wierd black ribbon upper right corner..

 

[Primetime]

On 6/6/2017 at 3:02 PM, Bigsexy said:

Marvel comics 1 entry price?

Hey all, I was wondering what the entry graded value of marvel comics 1 was? Unrestored and restored, thanks 

Floor price for an Oct or Nov copy?  

[rjpb]

I know Mystic Comics#4 has versions with a black or silver overstamp  of JULY and AUGUST printed above it, has anyone seen a "JULY" copy with no overstamp?

Given that we know there were three printings of Superman #1, and most likely two of Batman #1, and at least two states if not printings of MM #1, one wonders if there were more bi-monthly or quarterly books that had more than one printing, particularly first issues, where the sales potential was just guesswork. As quality control was fairly minimal, color variations and dimensional differences in width aren't very reliable indicators, and without some yet to be found clue , there would be no way of knowing which copies were which. This happened with quite a few underground comics, where several documented printings were run back in the day with no apparent changes, though over the years collectors have in some cases sussed out printing and bindery variances that they believe to be indicative of separate printings.

[N e r V]

1 hour ago, pemart1966 said:

Sorry, but that's exactly what the November copies are - 2nd printings.  There was obviously a time gap in between the October and November printings.  Goodman would have had to have the info that the October version sold out before deciding to do a second printing.  Enough time went by that he felt he had to change the cover date so as not to have the second printing appear stale dated with an "October" cover date.  

Goodman didn't give a hoot about putting "second printing" in the indica or anywhere else for that matter.  He just wanted the November dated book put out ASAP.  

[N e r V]

5 minutes ago, rjpb said:

I know Mystic Comics#4 has versions with a black or silver overstamp  of JULY and AUGUST printed above it, has anyone seen a "JULY" copy with no overstamp?

Given that we know there were three printings of Superman #1, and most likely two of Batman #1, and at least two states if not printings of MM #1, one wonders if there were more bi-monthly or quarterly books that had more than one printing, particularly first issues, where the sales potential was just guesswork. As quality control was fairly minimal, color variations and dimensional differences in width aren't very reliable indicators, and without some yet to be found clue , there would be no way of knowing which copies were which. This happened with quite a few underground comics, where several documented printings were run back in the day with no apparent changes, though over the years collectors have in some cases sussed out printing and bindery variances that they believe to be indicative of separate printings.

Forgot about that one too. 

[Chicago Boy]

Would someone mind filling me in on the printing history you're discussing with  the Bats & Supes #1's ??

[Silver Surfer]

1 hour ago, G.A.tor said:

I've only owned 2 Oct  copies of Marvel 1...I've owned a dozen Nov copies...so, the 10/1 ratio is probably a good guesstimate...but as mentioned, except for Peter/silver surfer, he's the only Marvel 1 buyer I've ever sold to that specifically only wanted an Oct copy...every other sale either was unaware (hard to imagine anyone paying 5 figs for a book they didn't research) or didn't care enough to distinquish....

maybe with some education, that will change?, but it hasn't seem to matter all that much the past 75 or so years

Rick I have to be honest that I find that to be very surprising. Most collectors are all about, first issues, first appearances, etc. I thing its just a natural  reaction once the comic bug bites you. When I was a kid reading Marvel Comics, early SA books would fill the major LCS in our town. It was a such a rush to see FF#12, Avengers #1 hanging on the wall with price tags that were so out of reach at the time that I could only dream. I had no idea there was a Golden Age and you would never see GA books because SA and BA stuff dominated that ea. As I learned more about the history and the old characters and issues the October release of MC#1 fascinated me. CGC might not think that there is a difference but I think the market would suggest otherwise [prices Oct vs Nov] BUT it doesn't help that there are so few October copies [maybe only 6 copies that I have ever seen in the last 15 years] so we may never know.

I know that have been variants for other GA issues but this was the very first MC out of the gate so for me I find it totally significant. 

 

[rjpb]

1 hour ago, G.A.tor said:

I've only owned 2 Oct  copies of Marvel 1...I've owned a dozen Nov copies...so, the 10/1 ratio is probably a good guesstimate...but as mentioned, except for Peter/silver surfer, he's the only Marvel 1 buyer I've ever sold to that specifically only wanted an Oct copy...every other sale either was unaware (hard to imagine anyone paying 5 figs for a book they didn't research) or didn't care enough to distinquish....

maybe with some education, that will change?, but it hasn't seem to matter all that much the past 75 or so years

I totally get that, if I had the wherewithall and desire to purchase and hold a MM #1 for my personal collection, I'd hold out for an Oct. copy, or at least keep an eye out for one, even if I had a Nov. "placeholder". I'd even sacrifice grade up to a point if I had to choose, though eye-appeal would also be a factor. 

[pemart1966]

12 minutes ago, rjpb said:

I totally get that, if I had the wherewithall and desire to purchase and hold a MM #1 for my personal collection, I'd hold out for an Oct. copy, or at least keep an eye out for one, even if I had a Nov. "placeholder". I'd even sacrifice grade up to a point if I had to choose, though eye-appeal would also be a factor. 

Agreed - given the choice, I'd take an October copy with no hesitation.

[pemart1966]

1 hour ago, porcupine48 said:

add this one too.Wierd black ribbon upper right corner..

 

There are a number of early books in the DC line that have some copies printed with only "10 Cents" as the price and some copies (same issue) printed with the "10c" price AND "15 Cents In Canada" right below it - Detective 47 for example.  I once owned a copy of WDC&S #1 that had the 10 cent price and "15 Cents In Canada" printed on the front cover. 

There's also a Batman #2 with only the 15 cents price on the cover.

Edited June 11, 2017 by pemart1966

[rjpb]

4 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

There are a number of early books in the DC line that have some copies printed with only "10 Cents" as the price and some copies (same issue) printed with the "10c" price AND "15 Cents In Canada" right below it - Detective 47 for example.  I once owned a copy of WDC&S #1 that had the 10 cent price and "15 Cents In Canada" printed on the front cover. 

There's also a Batman #2 with only the 15 cents price on the cover.

It's my understanding that the 15¢ editions, which include an Action and a More Fun as I recall, and perhaps a couple others, were meant for Canadian distribution. The dual priced copies are interesting, as obviously they had prices for either side of the border, but then why do a version without? Perhaps there were distributors who were the source on both sides of the border, and the dual price version was meant for them, deciding that the rest of the run would leave off the Canadian price so as not to confuse distributors/retailers elsewhere.

[pemart1966]

17 minutes ago, rjpb said:

It's my understanding that the 15¢ editions, which include an Action and a More Fun as I recall, and perhaps a couple others, were meant for Canadian distribution. The dual priced copies are interesting, as obviously they had prices for either side of the border, but then why do a version without? Perhaps there were distributors who were the source on both sides of the border, and the dual price version was meant for them, deciding that the rest of the run would leave off the Canadian price so as not to confuse distributors/retailers elsewhere.

There's also a Detective 43 priced only at 15 cents.

[Silver Surfer]

For some reason there has only been one Tec #43 and one More Fun #59 with a 15 cent price tag graded (last time I looked). One of those facinating mysteries from the GA era. 

[N e r V]

5 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

I've only owned 2 Oct  copies of Marvel 1...I've owned a dozen Nov copies...so, the 10/1 ratio is probably a good guesstimate...but as mentioned, except for Peter/silver surfer, he's the only Marvel 1 buyer I've ever sold to that specifically only wanted an Oct copy...every other sale either was unaware (hard to imagine anyone paying 5 figs for a book they didn't research) or didn't care enough to distinquish....

maybe with some education, that will change?, but it hasn't seem to matter all that much the past 75 or so years

That's a pretty interesting comment. I guess I'm not in the current group of collectors mindset then because everyone I've ever known in the collecting field was pretty aware of the two dates and that the October date was rarer (although I'm going to suggest that scarcity is amplified by copies being locked into collections for years now). 

I mean you could pick up a Overstreet guide in the 1970's and see the two listings. 

Why do you think this is? Are today's collectors less savvy about comics history due to lack of interest or just less educated on what they are buying?