Marvel comics 1 entry price? 0

[Primetime]

1 minute ago, N e r V said:

That's a pretty interesting comment. I guess I'm not in the current group of collectors mindset then because everyone I've ever known in the collecting field was pretty aware of the two dates and that the October date was rarer (although I'm going to suggest that scarcity is amplified by copies being locked into collections for years now). 

I mean you could pick up a Overstreet guide in the 1970's and see the two listings. 

Why do you think this is? Are today's collectors less savvy about comics history due to lack of interest or just less educated on what they are buying?

My experience with collectors  that got into gold the past 5-10 years don't care much for comic history. These are the folks most likely into Cap 1s over Marvel 1s. They like what's popular and what they can flip. Oh wait, those are dealers    The pre cgc, pre Gerber, pre Internet dinosaurs are into the history that Steranko and Olshevsky helped to share. 

[N e r V]

Well I'm not that old yet but part of comics charm to me is it's history (good and bad). I guess I'm lucky to have been around at a time to be around many of those that made it.

There was a time when a full run of All Star comics was needed just to get you in the door of other collectors.

[Primetime]

3 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Well I'm not that old yet but part of comics charm to me is it's history (good and bad). I guess I'm lucky to have been around at a time to be around many of those that made it.

There was a time when a full run of All Star comics was needed just to get you in the door of other collectors.

Oh yah the all stars were poppin back in the day. 

[Randall Dowling]

I'm a little surprised at how this conversation would look to a lot of inexperienced collectors.  The tone of a lot of the posts is that the November copies are chumpy reprints and the October copy is the only one to have.

If I had a choice between a very presentable 8.0 November copy with nice eye appeal/gloss and an October copy that was structurally a 7.0 but lacked great colors and had a blurred printed image, I'd buy the November copy very quickly and be happy for my good fortune.  EVEN if the November copy cost a little more.  Because condition and presentation of the comic are what matter to me.  I understand how there would be some that would chase the absolute earliest printing of something but pretty much every collector I personally know would choose the November copy in the same situation.  

And yes, I'm aware of how impossible the above situation is due to the crazy scarcity of Marvel Comics 1!  

[N e r V]

The threads been civil and everyone's echoed their preference between the two books given a choice. Every collector has their own way of collecting what and how.

The only discord was in the labels some choose to give things and the resistance by others that don't agree with those labels.

 

I think if anyone did think the November copies were "chumpy reprints" they probably don't appreciate the books standing to most collectors or have some fantasy that calling it something less than what it is will reduce its value? Who knows what people think. I don't believe that anything said here or elsewhere is going to diminish the books value any time soon. The October dated copies value increasing as a premium over November dated copies has nothing to do with the November dated copies increasing on their own.

Let's see what a nice looking 8.0 or so copy at auction (October or November) fetches the next time ones available.

 

 

[rjpb]

39 minutes ago, Randall Dowling said:

 

If I had a choice between a very presentable 8.0 November copy with nice eye appeal/gloss and an October copy that was structurally a 7.0 but lacked great colors and had a blurred printed image, I'd buy the November copy very quickly and be happy for my good fortune.  EVEN if the November copy cost a little more.  Because condition and presentation of the comic are what matter to me.

If you're going to stack the deck, you might as well throw in light tan pages, a dust shadow, and foxing.

[Primetime]

40 minutes ago, rjpb said:

If you're going to stack the deck, you might as well throw in light tan pages, a dust shadow, and foxing.

There are so few Oct copies in existence (let alone coming to market in the past 15 years), I'd say the market for Nov copies would be just as high today for anyone looking for "a" copy as Rick mentioned. 

[Randall Dowling]

2 hours ago, rjpb said:

If you're going to stack the deck, you might as well throw in light tan pages, a dust shadow, and foxing.

That November copy's looking better and better! 

[G.A.tor]

5 hours ago, Primetime said:

There are so few Oct copies in existence (let alone coming to market in the past 15 years), I'd say the market for Nov copies would be just as high today for anyone looking for "a" copy as Rick mentioned. 

That's the key. An oct copy rarely if ever, seems to come to market. The reality is that folks don't really have a choice. The market for a marvel 1 "is" nov copies , in essence 

even the pay copy is a nov...in fact I believe all pedigree copies are nov 

Edited June 11, 2017 by G.A.tor

[Mr bla bla]

3 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

That's the key. An oct copy rarely if ever, seems to come to market. The reality is that folks don't really have a choice. The market for a marvel 1 "is" nov copies , in essence 

even the pay copy is a nov...in fact I believe all pedigree copies are nov 

Put me down for a september copy please ...

[Hamlet]

Are there any currently any copies of this book for sale publicly besides the one on Comiclink mentioned in the thread?

[N e r V]

11 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

That's the key. An oct copy rarely if ever, seems to come to market. The reality is that folks don't really have a choice. The market for a marvel 1 "is" nov copies , in essence 

even the pay copy is a nov...in fact I believe all pedigree copies are nov 

Pay, Mile High, Windy City, Larson, Billy Wright, Allentown, Kansas City, Chicago, Twilight and Denver collections are all reprint copies, uh, November copies.

 

That's not to say there aren't some beautiful raw October copies out there in private collections but just not usually available. 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by N e r V

[Sqeggs]

4 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

That's the key. An oct copy rarely if ever, seems to come to market. The reality is that folks don't really have a choice. The market for a marvel 1 "is" nov copies , in essence 

even the pay copy is a nov...in fact I believe all pedigree copies are nov 

Very interesting point.  Do we know with certainty how widely circulated the October version of Marvel Comics 1 actually was?  Is it possible that as with MPFW, it didn't actually circulate much? If the October issue were widely circulated, wouldn't Jaquet have used a copy as the pay copy?

Although for years Overstreet has claimed that MPFW was distributed to some theaters, I think that claim is now widely doubted.  But the failure of MPFW to receive much (any?) circulation is often used as an argument against considering it Subby's true first appearance.  By -- a somewhat strained! -- analogy, might you argue that if the October version had very limited circulation, it's the November version that represents the more important of the two "states" of the book?

Another strained analogy:  Advance review copies of books are not (I don't think!) considered the first printings of books and while interesting and collectible are not generally as valuable as the regular first printings.  Yet ARCs are the first circulated versions of books.

Just heckling from the bleachers on this one! 

[Sqeggs]

32 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Pay, Mile High, Windy City, Larson, Billy Wright, Allentown, Kansas City, Chicago, Twilight and Denver collections are all reprint copies, uh, November copies.

 

That's not say there aren't some beautiful raw October copies out there in private collections but just not usually available. 

 

 

Maybe all those November copies being in pedigreed collections is an indication that the October version didn't actually get much circulation?

[pemart1966]

18 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

Maybe all those November copies being in pedigreed collections is an indication that the October version didn't actually get much circulation?

Well, there were supposedly printed approx 80,000 copies of the October issue and approx 800,000 copies of the November issue.  Don't know about the circulation of the October issue but it sold out hence the November reprint.

[Sqeggs]

Just now, pemart1966 said:

Well, there were supposedly printed approx 80,000 copies of the October issue and approx 800,000 copies of the November issue.  Don't know about the circulation of the October issue but it sold out hence the November reprint.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that minor matter! 

Still, in weighing the relative desirability of the two printings (if that's what they were), the fact that the October version may have received a more limited distribution might be something to throw in the balance. 

[N e r V]

4 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

Well, there were supposedly printed approx 80,000 copies of the October issue and approx 800,000 copies of the November issue.  Don't know about the circulation of the October issue but it sold out hence the November reprint.

I've heard those numbers before.

 

Anyone know the source and if/how they were ever verified?

 

[N e r V]

29 minutes ago, Sqeggs said:

Very interesting point.  Do we know with certainty how widely circulated the October version of Marvel Comics 1 actually was?  Is it possible that as with MPFW, it didn't actually circulate much? If the October issue were widely circulated, wouldn't Jaquet have used a copy as the pay copy?

Although for years Overstreet has claimed that MPFW was distributed to some theaters, I think that claim is now widely doubted.  But the failure of MPFW to receive much (any?) circulation is often used as an argument against considering it Subby's true first appearance.  By -- a somewhat strained! -- analogy, might you argue that if the October version had very limited circulation, it's the November version that represents the more important of the two "states" of the book?

Another strained analogy:  Advance review copies of books are not (I don't think!) considered the first printings of books and while interesting and collectible are not generally as valuable as the regular first printings.  Yet ARCs are the first circulated versions of books.

Just heckling from the bleachers on this one! 

If MPFW remained a in house book only I guess you could argue it being on par with a ash-can (zero distribution).

Is Thrill comics #1 ash-can the real first appearance of Captain Marvel and not Whiz comics #2? Because that is clearly Captain Marvel in it all they did was a slight change to the name (Thunder to Marvel) and title (Thrill to Whiz). 

Not my thinking on it but just throwing that out there.

I still view MPFW as the first "printed" appearance of Sub-Mariner but Marvel Comics #1 as his first "public appearance" in comics unless someone proves distribution of the book. Not the kind of "fake" distribution Warren did either with Eerie #1. There's a difference with a limited distributed book and what they were trying to do there which was clearly for copyright reasons.

[Ameri]

6 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

That's the key. An oct copy rarely if ever, seems to come to market. The reality is that folks don't really have a choice. The market for a marvel 1 "is" nov copies , in essence 

even the pay copy is a nov...in fact I believe all pedigree copies are nov 

Excellent point. Since the pay copy is the one that they used to pay the artists and it's a NOV copy, that makes NOV copies more "official" than OCT copies.  

[Pickie]

Here is the thread with the animated gif of various versions of the Nov. copy cover sign (distance between "dot" and wording "Nov.") and pics of two versions of the Nov. copy indicia (partly out of register).

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Pickie