MF73 CGC 9.4 Mile High 3 3

[VintageComics]

8 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

A better way of saying it is that the addition of glue or CT does not improve the grade and therefore is not trying to restore it to a better, previous condition.

But yes, I agree with you Peter.

Why would somebody touch up a book with glue and CT if not, for the sole reason, of restoring it to a better condition ? This may be some quote Borock and CGC used at the beginning to justify the logic behind allowing it in a Blue Label but I don't see it holding up today. Let's just say the book had a non color breaking crease, holding the book to 9.4. Any improvement with CT/Glue would not be enough to overcome that crease. However, in today's environment, the crease can be pressed out. If so, now the book will improve with the CT/Glue.

I am giving you the explanation that has been given to me by several CGC graders (and I have owned several books with these notations, hence my interest).

9 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Let me ask this, are there any examples of  books graded today, new label, that got a Blue labels with CT/Glue ? Graded, not reholdered.

Unless their policy has changed, I would assume there are plenty.

[Bomber-Bob]

3 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I am giving you the explanation that has been given to me by several CGC graders (and I have owned several books with these notations, hence my interest).

Unless their policy has changed, I would assume there are plenty.

Did they tell you why the policy was apparently only applied to Golden Age ? I have a key Silver Age book with literally a dot on the apex of the spine that got a Purple Label. The single dot, the size of a tip of the pen, was verified by Matt and Lon Allen as all there was. The book got an 8.5 and no way would the dot improve the grade. IMO, this 'policy' was simply an excuse to appease some collectors. I would hope this 'policy' is no longer in effect. My only point with all this was I would not chance a resub.  Others feel this 'policy' would protect it. I'm not too sure. 

[VintageComics]

1 minute ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Did they tell you why the policy was apparently only applied to Golden Age ?

I didn't ask.

But I will say that even the Overstreet Price Guide has allowed different grading standards to be applied to books depending on which era the book is from, so CGC didn't come up with this idea. It's been around long before CGC was even in business.

[lou_fine]

7 hours ago, jason327 said:

2nd....grading used to be more strict.  Not less strict.  More strict.  Now CGC lets guys take books out of slabs, press them, and re-submit them for a higher grade with no notes.  Etc.

Personally, I believe that grading has changed over the years from when CGC first opened their doors.  Although they may have gone less strict in certain areas, they have certainly tightened up in terms of both color breaking and non-color breaking creases and stress lines.  Your statement actually confirms that grading has become more strict in terms of this one key area, because if you book has any near invisible non-color breaking creases that can only be seen by holding the book up at a certain angle to the light, it is simply going to get hammered at the grading table.

Especially with the current grading team at CGC now headed since last year by the former king of the pressers and prior owner of the biggest pressing company in the marketplace.  Sad to see that so many submittors now feels that pressing is virtually a prerequisite step to take before having a book graded, but financially convenient for CCG and their parent company since it adds to both their top line and bottom line in the form of both additional streams of revenue (i.e. pressing or pre-screen for pressing) and repeat business (i.e. regrading fees).   

[VintageComics]

On 8/31/2017 at 1:51 PM, fantastic_four said:

On 8/31/2017 at 1:47 PM, lou_fine said:

Yes, back then in the so-called good old days, restoration was indeed seen as not only improving a book but also adding value to it.  I still remember the articles in the Overstreet guide back then trying to come up with some type of calculation to determine the added value of having books with restoration on them.  The gist of it was that a restored book was always worth more than an unrestored book in its original lower grade condition, but never as much as it would be in its higher restored grade condition if it had been an original unrestored copy. 

That's still the way I look at it.  The stigma attached to restoration seems entirely bizarre to me.

It depends on the quality of restoration, but I know what you mean.

It's obviously financially driven and things that are financially driven can be bizarre.

[VintageComics]

On 9/4/2017 at 3:36 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

Didn't Borock admit  to making some bad decisions on these type of books early on ?

Borock admitted to overgrading some famous books that come up for discussion on the chat forum.

He didn't admit to changing the rules of a small amount of glue or CT in a blue label.

[VintageComics]

On 9/5/2017 at 0:12 AM, lou_fine said:

I would definitely agree with Tim if you are referring to the very small amounts of dried glue and all that.  If you take a look at the Jon Berk catalogue with books that were just graded earlier this year, you will see blue universal slabs (both pedigree and non-pedigree) scattered throughout his collection with notes for very small or tiny amounts of dried glue.

The Berk auction was going to be my next reference point.

[VintageComics]

21 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I don't really blame the collectors as much as I blame the head honchos at CGC and CCG who not only gave the green light for all of these shenanigans to take place, but seemingly encouraged it even though they were supposedly the gate watchers safeguarding the hobby for us.  They could have done this by taking a verbal hard line stance against what was going on, similar to their tough talk on micro trimming and how that practice was an absolute no-no, which would have been my preferred choice.

What exactly are you talking about?

 

8 hours ago, jason327 said:

2nd....grading used to be more strict.  Not less strict.  More strict.

Are you saying this is universally true? It absolutely isn't.

Back in the day you had Good - Fine - Mint and a Mint back in the day could be anything from VF ro high Mint range.

2nd, there was no exact standard. It was always up to interpretation.

[Bomber-Bob]

Regarding resubmitting this book for possible upgrade. If, by definition, the addition of glue or CT does not improve the grade and therefore is not trying to restore it to a better, previous condition, how can this book be considered for an upgrade ? If an upgrade is given to 9.6, the consideration of a blue label would have to be dropped as the work does improve the grade. Otherwise you would be saying that the underlying flaws would be acceptable in a 9.6. Unless this book has absolutely no other flaws, that's really pushing the boundaries. 

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, VintageComics said:

On 9/5/2017 at 1:20 PM, lou_fine said:

I don't really blame the collectors as much as I blame the head honchos at CGC and CCG who not only gave the green light for all of these shenanigans to take place, but seemingly encouraged it even though they were supposedly the gate watchers safeguarding the hobby for us.  They could have done this by taking a verbal hard line stance against what was going on, similar to their tough talk on micro trimming and how that practice was an absolute no-no, which would have been my preferred choice.

What exactly are you talking about?

Roy;

I thought you was the supremo master at reading between the lines?   

Edited September 6, 2017 by lou_fine

[VintageComics]

44 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

4 hours ago, VintageComics said:

On 9/5/2017 at 4:20 PM, lou_fine said:

I don't really blame the collectors as much as I blame the head honchos at CGC and CCG who not only gave the green light for all of these shenanigans to take place, but seemingly encouraged it even though they were supposedly the gate watchers safeguarding the hobby for us.  They could have done this by taking a verbal hard line stance against what was going on, similar to their tough talk on micro trimming and how that practice was an absolute no-no, which would have been my preferred choice.

What exactly are you talking about?

Roy;

I thought you was the supremo master at reading between the lines?   

Were you talking about pressing or allowing small dots of CT and glue in a blue holder?

[r100comics]

On 8/30/2017 at 5:30 PM, sfcityduck said:

It appears the owner of the MH 73 is "jason327" formerly known as "Big Moov."  Here's the thread I mentioned:

I believe the MH MF 73 was bought for $75K in 2012. 

The seller's talking about $1 Million for the Flash #1 Ashcan in that thread.

Anyone know what it actually sold for ?

[G.A.tor]

4 minutes ago, r100comics said:

The seller's talking about $1 Million for the Flash #1 Ashcan in that thread.

Anyone know what it actually sold for ?

the 9.4 flash ashcan sold for $27,177

[batman_fan]

2 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

the 9.4 flash ashcan sold for $27,177

Well that's close to $1million give or take. 

[sfcityduck]

2 hours ago, r100comics said:

The seller's talking about $1 Million for the Flash #1 Ashcan in that thread.

Anyone know what it actually sold for ?

To be fair, he actually said about the Flash 1: "The comic I'm selling could go for anywhere from $20K to $1M+."  

He beat his low end by $7,177. 

Later in the thread, he talks about his MH MF 73.

 

[r100comics]

He also said, "So since the Mile High top-rated copy of Action 1 would undoubtedly go for well-over $4M....why shouldn't my comic go for $1M ??" 

[MrBedrock]

33 minutes ago, r100comics said:

He also said, "So since the Mile High top-rated copy of Action 1 would undoubtedly go for well-over $4M....why shouldn't my comic go for $1M ??" 

Yep, and since a 9.6 copy of Strawberry Shortcake 1 sold for $46 why can't monkeys fly out of my butt?

[fantastic_four]

12 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

47 minutes ago, r100comics said:

He also said, "So since the Mile High top-rated copy of Action 1 would undoubtedly go for well-over $4M....why shouldn't my comic go for $1M ??" 

Yep, and since a 9.6 copy of Strawberry Shortcake 1 sold for $46 why can't monkeys fly out of my butt?

You're a few hundred strawberry shortcakes shy of having enough room for even one monkey to fit in your butt.  

[sacentaur]

5 hours ago, r100comics said:

On 8/30/2017 at 9:30 AM, sfcityduck said:

It appears the owner of the MH 73 is "jason327" formerly known as "Big Moov."

Ah, now I recall that annoying twit.

[nearmint]

On 8/30/2017 at 4:51 PM, woowoo said:

I don't think the book looks 9.4 in this pic  the spine look's real bad and it looks like I can see a little blue color touch in the letters FUN if you enlarge the pic you see light blue?. Mind you I only had 2 Racer 5'sPS I got the pick off Link but it says Heritage

Not sure why you think the spine looks bad.  If you're looking at what looks like dark shadowing along the spine, that's just a shadow in the scan, it's not on the book itself.