Mr. Zipper Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I haven't been active in the hobby so much over the past few years, but was pretty immersed day-to-day in the 90s through 2012 or so. I received an email from ComicConnect today and was shocked to see in the auction highlights a number of high-grade, high value books in PGX slabs. It wasn't that long ago that they were not considered reputable by serious collectors and there were significant and valid concerns regarding insider grading and very "loose" restoration checking, including rampant trimmed books. In fact, I was a victim of a trimmed JIM 89 that was sold to me in a PGX unrestored slab. (It was also significantly overgraded and sold to me by a Eugene, Oregon seller who was later revealed to be a PGX "insider" who had the "keys" to the slabbing machine.) Are these guys considered legit now? Or have they clung on long enough to outlast the core group of people who exposed and recall their questionable practices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mr. Zipper said: I haven't been active in the hobby so much over the past few years, but was pretty immersed day-to-day in the 90s through 2012 or so. I received an email from ComicConnect today and was shocked to see in the auction highlights a number of high-grade, high value books in PGX slabs. It wasn't that long ago that they were not considered reputable by serious collectors and there were significant and valid concerns regarding insider grading and very "loose" restoration checking, including rampant trimmed books. In fact, I was a victim of a trimmed JIM 89 that was sold to me in a PGX unrestored slab. (It was also significantly overgraded and sold to me by a Eugene, Oregon seller who was later revealed to be a PGX "insider" who had the "keys" to the slabbing machine.) Are these guys considered legit now? Or have they clung on long enough to outlast the core group of people who exposed and recall their questionable practices? Nothing's changed - PGX is still a fantastic way for shady sellers to legitimize their over-graded & restored books. deadleg, Mr. Zipper and Larryw7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicdonna Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 As far as I know, things haven't changed. I will always treat them like it was a raw book. My guess is these are consignment books. Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizards2 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 The very few I have purchased were deslabbed, and graded correctly, but I tend towards minor silver age that costs less than $100 a slab. And no restoration that I could detect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Zipper Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, comicdonna said: As far as I know, things haven't changed. I will always treat them like it was a raw book. Understood, but the potential flaw in that line of reasoning is that it's easy to hide "problems" in a PGX slab and the fact that it is slabbed makes it less likely to be cracked and issues later discovered. [At least a few years ago] PGX was where less than credible sellers sent their books hoping they would slide by... so, there may be a greater chance that a PGX book has problems than raw. Raw books can be a minefield, but at least you can check them out easily -- much harder to hide issues. The net result is that raw books may be safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumantorch Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, Mr. Zipper said: I haven't been active in the hobby so much over the past few years, but was pretty immersed day-to-day in the 90s through 2012 or so. I received an email from ComicConnect today and was shocked to see in the auction highlights a number of high-grade, high value books in PGX slabs. It wasn't that long ago that they were not considered reputable by serious collectors and there were significant and valid concerns regarding insider grading and very "loose" restoration checking, including rampant trimmed books. In fact, I was a victim of a trimmed JIM 89 that was sold to me in a PGX unrestored slab. (It was also significantly overgraded and sold to me by a Eugene, Oregon seller who was later revealed to be a PGX "insider" who had the "keys" to the slabbing machine.) Are these guys considered legit now? Or have they clung on long enough to outlast the core group of people who exposed and recall their questionable practices? Glad to see you posting again Steve. Nothing has changed for PGX. In general their books sell for less and most serious collectors know the 'company' has 'issues'. There's a lot of PGX graded books out there and I'd imagine all of the major auction houses have been offered collections to sell containing PGX books. Out of curiosity I checked Heritage Auctions and couldn't find any 'PGX' books in their 'Past Sales' archive. Comiclink doesn't have a searchable Past Sales archive so couldn't search there but I think I've seen PGX books there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 rather have a raw than a PGX any day. Larryw7, Steviehuv66 and newshane 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizards2 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 55 minutes ago, Mr. Zipper said: 1 hour ago, comicdonna said: As far as I know, things haven't changed. I will always treat them like it was a raw book. Understood, but the potential flaw in that line of reasoning is that it's easy to hide "problems" in a PGX slab and the fact that it is slabbed makes it less likely to be cracked and issues later discovered. [At least a few years ago] PGX was where less than credible sellers sent their books hoping they would slide by... so, there may be a greater chance that a PGX book has problems than raw. Raw books can be a minefield, but at least you can check them out easily -- much harder to hide issues. The net result is that raw books may be safer. Just frickin' crack them out. The same could be said about CGC books - they easily hide plenty of junk as well, and you will never know until you crack them out . You can never tell what you actually have until you at least get the outer well off, as it hides a ton of flaws. porcupine48 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aweandlorder Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 PGX. The new crack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicdonna Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I've bought two in all. The most expensive being 1K. Before purchasing, I asked for nice front and back cover scans. Cracked them both out and they were sent to CGC. 1 remained the same grade, and 1 came back 1 grade higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicquant Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I just started collecting in 2016 and one of the first stories I came across in researching slabbing in general was how shady PGX is, was and will most likely continue to be. Most PGX slabs look about three bumps over graded. While Voldy doesn't have the bad rap PGX does they're in the same boat when it comes to trusting the grade you buy. 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicwiz Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 1 hour ago, comicquant said: While Voldy doesn't have the bad rap PGX does they're in the same boat when it comes to trusting the grade you buy. Beige 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I don't think anyone is in the same boat as PGX. It's like the Costa Concordia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woowoo Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) I have been collecting for 40 years and I know how to grade. I have drove up to pgx and had them grade my Tec 1 and 27 and Batman 1 and they are spot on to what I would have gave the books. I had them graded by them so I could have a 3rd party grade my books to sell. I don't think they are that far off. I always thought CGC was to hard on grading by a point that's good for the buyer. I would say if you buy a PGX book and its 6.0 buy it as a 5.0 that CGC would grade it and you will be fine. Restoration I don't know how good they are but they are like you and me on grading. I will say the got my Hulk 1 wrong I bought the book as a 3.5 unrestored and they gave it a 1.5 no tape and nice pages Edited September 13, 2017 by woowoo zosocane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosconi Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) Hey Steve, I started a topic on their infamous Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko "signature series" book's about a year ago You may have missed it, but buyer beware: Edited September 13, 2017 by mosconi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Steve Ditko did not sign that book. Probly not Stan either. 4.5? I don't think so. zosocane and Mercury Man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehumantorch Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, mosconi said: Hey Steve, I started a topic on their infamous Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko "signature series" book's about a year ago You may have missed it, but buyer beware: Sure doesn't look like Kirby's sig to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosconi Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 (edited) The Kirby signature was on this book's back cover. I couldn't find the image to the bc though : Edited September 13, 2017 by mosconi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 I hate PGX mosconi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950's war comics Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 pgx and voldy are nearly the same, every single time i see a comic in one of their slabs my thoughts are the same,... the submitter is trying to go cheap and get a comic over graded in a slab... comicquant and ComicConnoisseur 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
