Amazon's THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RINGS OF POWER (2022) 5 5

[sfcityduck]

On 9/30/2022 at 7:14 AM, ianh said:

That article really doesn't tell the entire story. Amazon Prime has almost 3 times that amount of subscribers globally (Over 200 Million) that HBO Max does (75 MIllion) so has access to more possible watchers by far.

Prime is also available in 200 countries while HBO Max is only available in 60. 

House of Dragon had 45% more piracy than RoP in the 1st episode and 127% more piracy in the 2nd. It's google trends continue to rise while RoP have been stagnant since the 1st week. 

I'd be surprised given all that if it didn't have more viewership minutes but they will try and paint anything with this show as a success.

 

The only reason these numbers matter is the economics. People have been predicting that RoP would be a colossal failure because of its big five-year budget. But, the difference between on Broadway and off Broadway is number of viewers.  So your numbers show that its ok for RoP to have higher costs than HoD because it has a higher potential paid viewership (and actual viewers).  If you are telling me that HoD is increasingly losing income to piracy, that's a negative which cuts against the shows success, not something that any producer, company, or true fan would tout as a good thing.  

[sfcityduck]

On 9/30/2022 at 8:54 AM, drotto said:

Also this is based on streaming watch minutes.  RoP dropped over two hours on the opening week while HoD had one 60 minute episode in the same period. 

You are not factoring in that the HoD episode was available for streaming for over twice as long.  From the article I linked:

"Despite only being available for three days (and a few hours) of Nielsen’s measurement period — the show launched at 9 p.m. ET on Sept. 1 — TROP managed to outscore seven days of streaming for the Netflix KevinHart/Mark Wahlberg movie Me Time (927 million minutes) and, yes, the second full week of measurement for HBO’s House of the Dragon (781 million).

[Bosco685]

 

[ianh]

On 9/30/2022 at 2:10 PM, sfcityduck said:

The only reason these numbers matter is the economics. People have been predicting that RoP would be a colossal failure because of its big five-year budget. But, the difference between on Broadway and off Broadway is number of viewers.  So your numbers show that its ok for RoP to have higher costs than HoD because it has a higher potential paid viewership (and actual viewers).  If you are telling me that HoD is increasingly losing income to piracy, that's a negative which cuts against the shows success, not something that any producer, company, or true fan would tout as a good thing.  

People that say it will be a colossal failure in my experience seem to want it to fail. I have my likes and dislikes about the show certainly but I am willing to give it  chance (just starting episode 6 tonight). Will it make Amazon money? Time will tell. 

And I point out the privacy numbers because they point to popularity of the shows and HoD is pretty much beating RoP at every metric even the illegal ones. The fact that people want to see it is a good thing. That means it's getting good reviews and people are talking it up.

[shadroch]

I really enjoyed episode six. Thats the first episode I can say that for.  

[Cephusdog]

This might be my favorite show at the moment. I'm enjoying it more than House of the Dragon, but since I've read the book, I know pretty much what's going to happen. The creative license in RoP seems to be tastefully done imo and while I've read the Silmarillion, it was years ago. While i remember the gist of the story (I also play LotR onlie, which helps) I'm excited to see how the flesh out the story.

[Beige]

Welcome to Mordor.

 

But was Galadriel really riding Shadowfax??

 

Hell of an episode that. Really enjoyed it.

[Bosco685]

Quote

Yes, water can make a volcano erupt. 'The Rings of Power' showrunners and a geologist break down episode six's Mount Doom twist, which was based on more science than you probably thought. 

 

The sixth episode of The Rings of Power concluded with a spectacular reveal of an iconic Middle-earth landmark: The volcanic Mount Doom. 

 

That mysterious sword young Theo discovered in the show’s first episode has turned out to be a key that was used to open a floodgate spilling water through those Orc-dug tunnels. The resulting torrent stream fell into the bowels of an active volcano. The mountain’s subsequent eruption as the water struck underground lava was like a nuclear bomb that turned the pastoral Southlands into what will eventually be known as Mordor. 

 

In a show that could have easily have fallen back on using magic to accomplish a major terraforming twist like this one, the Mount Doom reveal was a rather clever way of using an essential element from the natural world. 

The showrunners really thought this through.

[Bosco685]

 

[BuscemasAvengers]

Ep.6 was amazing, resurrecting the feelings I had when watching the Rohirrim save the day in The Return of the King (albeit on a much smaller scale this time), the exquisite moves of Legolas in the wall-climbing back flip performed by Arondir as he battles the big Orc, and the humble rise of Aragorn to accept his kingship as did Lord Halbrand. I feel I need to push back against the critics who argue the pacing of the episodes is slow, and recommend to those who feel this way to re-evaluate how Tolkien tells his stories by re-reading (or perhaps reading for the first time?!) the Tolkien canon. His stories do take time to unfold. Visually, some only want to see what they saw in episode 6. I say to them the ancient Dwarven insult, 'Ozirum menu seleku" ("You couldn't forge a spoon"). Be patient with the narrative, not expecting mountainous explosions and dams bursting every episode.

Edited October 1, 2022 by BuscemasAvengers

[kimik]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:39 AM, Bosco685 said:

The showrunners really thought this through.

On the eruption, yes.

On the fact that the Elves, Southlanders, Men, and Orcs would have all perished like the citizens of Pompeii, the science was left on the cutting room floor......

Edited October 1, 2022 by kimik

[drotto]

On 10/1/2022 at 12:58 PM, kimik said:

On the eruption, yes.

On the fact that the Elves, Southlanders, Men, and Orcs would have all perished like the citizens of Pompeii, the science was left on the cutting room floor......

Along with the fact that a water source would not be enough to trigger an eruption like that. Or that a random broken sword, that just happens to get found, would fit in slot in a wall, that just happens to be in the fort they were hiding in.  That somehow just behind a bit of overgrowth, but yet ignored for hundreds of years.  I would much prefer if they had actually shown Sauron or his minions setting this up (yes I know they were digging tunnels, was never hinted at at the purpose), figuring out what the hilt was.  Show the audience the scheming, show us the planning, show us the why.  All this is essentially skipped, so the ultimate reveal while momentarily shocking, ultimately rings hollow and feels unearned. it feels like they know they needed a big moment, so they just said this will happen here.

 

I know many of you liked this episode and like this show, but it is a series of happenstances like this, that are never developed, never hinted at other than being a generic mystery box, that drive me absolutely nuts.  I bothers me that the timelines make no sense at all.  It bothers me that characters seem to teleport because the writers needed them for the next event, with no sense on the time or journey needed to get them there. Just we need Galadriel's army at the siege, just in the nick of time, so they will just be there, be damned if this would have taken weeks or months of travel. I hate that remotely realistic logistics are completely ignored. There is no way 500 people horses, armor, gear and supplies would fit on those 3 ships (unless they work like the Tardis). Or how 500 soldiers would have a chance against the many thousands of orcs shows previously. That the villagers would leave a village because it was not defendable (lets forget to take food when we flee also), to a logical fortified position, and leave it for the place they said was not defendable. That a tower that stood for hundreds if not thousands of years was held up by one rope (if they were shown weakening the tower this would have been ok).  I hated that GoT degenerated into many of the same types of things over its last 2 or 3 seasons, and I do not like it here either. I am just disappointed.

 

Ok, I have vented, continue your enjoyment.

[Bosco685]

On 10/1/2022 at 1:42 PM, drotto said:

Along with the fact that a water source would not be enough to trigger an eruption like that. Or that a random broken sword, that just happens to get found, would fit in slot in a wall, that just happens to be in the fort they were hiding in.  That somehow just behind a bit of overgrowth, but yet ignored for hundreds of years.  I would much prefer if they had actually shown Sauron or his minions setting this up (yes I know they were digging tunnels, was never hinted at at the purpose), figuring out what the hilt was.  Show the audience the scheming, show us the planning, show us the why.  All this is essentially skipped, so the ultimate reveal while momentarily shocking, ultimately rings hollow and feels unearned. it feels like they know they needed a big moment, so they just said this will happen here.

 

I know many of you liked this episode and like this show, but it is a series of happenstances like this, that are never developed, never hinted at other than being a generic mystery box, that drive me absolutely nuts.  I bothers me that the timelines make no sense at all.  It bothers me that characters seem to teleport because the writers needed them for the next event, with no sense on the time or journey needed to get them there. Just we need Galadriel's army at the siege, just in the nick of time, so they will just be there, be damned if this would have taken weeks or months of travel. I hate that remotely realistic logistics are completely ignored. There is no way 500 people horses, armor, gear and supplies would fit on those 3 ships (unless they work like the Tardis). Or how 500 soldiers would have a chance against the many thousands of orcs shows previously. That the villagers would leave a village because it was not defendable (lets forget to take food when we flee also), to a logical fortified position, and leave it for the place they said was not defendable. That a tower that stood for hundreds if not thousands of years was held up by one rope (if they were shown weakening the tower this would have been ok).  I hated that GoT degenerated into many of the same types of things over its last 2 or 3 seasons, and I do not like it here either. I am just disappointed.

 

Ok, I have vented, continue your enjoyment.

Did you not even read the article before you went off on 'I've got a more technical background so I know better' rant?

[Bosco685]

On 10/1/2022 at 12:58 PM, kimik said:

On the eruption, yes.

On the fact that the Elves, Southlanders, Men, and Orcs would have all perished like the citizens of Pompeii, the science was left on the cutting room floor......

The science of the water causing the eruption was what they were referring to.

The rest had to do with the magic tied to the location - including the architecture made to receive the sword to trigger the event.

[Bosco685]

 

[kimik]

On 10/1/2022 at 12:19 PM, Bosco685 said:

The science of the water causing the eruption was what they were referring to.

The rest had to do with the magic tied to the location - including the architecture made to receive the sword to trigger the event.

I know they were referring to the water and eruption, but thought the whole everyone apparently survived the pyroclastic clouds and gasses was too much. Other than that, I liked the episode. 

WRT comments that it everything is done too quickly without enough build up, I agree. They should be taking more time to build up the story instead of cramming a couple of hundred years of events into one season. 

[Bosco685]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:34 PM, kimik said:

I know they were referring to the water and eruption, but thought the whole everyone apparently survived the pyroclastic clouds and gasses was too much. Other than that, I liked the episode. 

WRT comments that it everything is done too quickly without enough build up, I agree. They should be taking more time to build up the story instead of cramming a couple of hundred years of events into one season. 

This I have to agree with in that there needs to be some easing-into-the-episode efforts due to the long history and locations and people involved in the entire Tolkien lore. There are times when they make mention of certain details - including using Elven language - and I end up having to do more research including watching some of the more credible Episode Summary YT videos to get me up to speed.

How to make that general audience transition a little easier I am not sure. Maybe before or after an episode there is some 'World of Tolkien' familiarization videos.

But overall, I'm having more of a good time than some seem to be experiencing. That doesn't mean they are wrong and I am right. I'm just not getting wrapped up in the dissatisfaction themes that seem to be happening.

[drotto]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:16 PM, Bosco685 said:

Did you not even read the article before you went off on 'I've got a more technical background so I know better' rant?

Has nothing to do with being technical.  There is no consistent logical in the series, and moving the plot along at this point relies on either myster boxes,  or chance events.

 

Galadriel just off a boat in the middle of the ocean and magically is picked up to the place she needs to be to get an army.

The library has information that people have missed for 100 of years that she stumbles on.

Boy find a broken sword, by chance that starts Mt Doom.

Wow that key is very luckily placed.

Galadriel's army with no scouting just happens upon the orcs, the villagers, near the volcano.

 

And so on.  To me it is very clear the limitations of the source material.  They bough appendices that had events and places and not much else.  They decided what events and places they were going to use based on what they had, and a very vague timetime (because it is so condensed).  They were then left to try and create the connective tissue to pull these events together.  Instead of building the story and the journey, they are being driven by where they put an event, not how the  story had leads there. To get there they are relying on chance events, and to keep the audience engaged they are using myster boxes, and glitz. Just like GoT season 7 and 8.

 

Sorry, if you disagree just my oppinion.

[The Black Hand ®]

Because of my love for Tolkien, I'm sticking with the show and really want to like it but it's mostly a disappointment for me. It seems more like the run of the mill fantasy series that the industry has been churning out the last several years. I have yet to see any performances of weight yet and the writing is weak. The music is bland at best. In the LOTR, the music sucks you right in from the start along with a stable of incredibly strong actors, strong -script and of course strong source material. Of course this is my opinion. I really wanted to like this.

[Bosco685]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:57 PM, drotto said:

Has nothing to do with being technical.

I think you forgot the first item you mentioned. Which if I had called this out you naturally would have gone into your scientific background.

On 10/1/2022 at 1:42 PM, drotto said:

Along with the fact that a water source would not be enough to trigger an eruption like that.

‘The Rings of Power’ Showrunners — and a Geologist — Explain That Mount Doom Surprise

Quote

That mysterious sword young Theo discovered in the show’s first episode has turned out to be a key that was used to open a floodgate spilling water through those Orc-dug tunnels. The resulting torrent stream fell into the bowels of an active volcano. The mountain’s subsequent eruption as the water struck underground lava was like a nuclear bomb that turned the pastoral Southlands into what will eventually be known as Mordor. 

Quote

But could the diverted water really have caused Mount Doom to explode just like in the episode? Jeffrey Karson, professor of Earth and Environmental Sciences at Syracuse University, who specializes in volcanic activity and has written about the role of water in eruptions, overviewed the basics of the concept.

 

“How long of an answer do you want?” Karson asked. We opted for a short version, which still ended up being a tad long. The basic idea is this: Water often plays a crucial role in causing volcanic eruptions — particularly when the volcano in question is on the sea floor. If a river poured into a land-based volcano like Mount Doom, mixed with the magma and there wasn’t a way for the resulting steam to exit (like, say, if the incoming water was blocking the hole the Orcs had dug), there could indeed be an explosion. 

 

“Violent volcanic eruptions occur in large part because water is involved,” Karson says. “The water is dissolved in the magma. The magma rises to the surfaces, the water makes bubbles that can turn to steam and the steam and water expand so rapidly that they basically blow the magma apart. That stuff piles up near a central vent and that’s what makes big volcanos.”

That's where you started, which led me to believe you never even read the article before you went into the next post of "How I dislike The Rings of Power: Chapter Six"

On 10/1/2022 at 2:57 PM, drotto said:

There is no consistent logical in the series, and moving the plot along at this point relies on either myster boxes,  or chance events.

Spoiler

Galadriel just off a boat in the middle of the ocean and magically is picked up to the place she needs to be to get an army.

The library has information that people have missed for 100 of years that she stumbles on.

Boy find a broken sword, by chance that starts Mt Doom.

Wow that key is very luckily placed.

Galadriel's army with no scouting just happens upon the orcs, the villagers, near the volcano.

 

And so on.  To me it is very clear the limitations of the source material.  They bough appendices that had events and places and not much else.  They decided what events and places they were going to use based on what they had, and a very vague timetime (because it is so condensed).  They were then left to try and create the connective tissue to pull these events together.  Instead of building the story and the journey, they are being driven by where they put an event, not how the  story had leads there. To get there they are relying on chance events, and to keep the audience engaged they are using myster boxes, and glitz. Just like GoT season 7 and 8.

 

Sorry, if you disagree just my oppinion.

 

So with the consistency argument, this is just the first six episode in a long story about the early days before the Third Age. I hope nobody was expecting everything to be revealed completely in Season One of a show. It's not even a fair mindset for yourself as a fellow viewer to even expect that as naturally you are definitely going to be disappointed. Right?

You can have your opinions. I respect that. But don't keep throwing unrealistic expectations at the show, knowing you are setting yourself up for disappointment. That's like folks that are trying to force House of Dragons into a corner how many seasons and years is that going to cover of the history. The showrunners of HoD are even starting to think of just doing parallel events of that time period versus years upon years of the same characters played out.