Amazon's THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RINGS OF POWER (2022) 5 5

[sfcityduck]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:10 AM, drotto said:

If it take them years to get the next season out, and with very mixed and divided fan reviews and reaction.  This could kill any momentum they may have.

 

So you concede they have momentum?

For someone who loathes the show you sure do have a lot of concerns.  No need to worry.  Shooting on season two is in progress already and the quote causing the concern shouldn’t.  Unlike several posters above, I know a fair amount of people watching the show who are enjoying it.   The general view is that the effects are amazing, the acting good, and the stories compelling. Obviously, it is a top 5 show in the ratings.  But Those of us who started watching tv prior to the 80s realize that no show today will ever have much cultural impact compared to the old days when there were only a few tv channels, no streaming, and audiences lined up for movie sequels that came out three or four years apart.

 

[drotto]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:12 AM, sfcityduck said:

So you concede they have momentum?

For someone who loathes the show you sure do have a lot of concerns.  No need to worry.  Shooting on season two is in progress already and the quote causing the concern shouldn’t.  Unlike several posters above, I know a fair amount of people watching the show who are enjoying it.   The general view is that the effects are amazing, the acting good, and the stories compelling. Obviously, it is a top 5 show in the ratings.  But Those of us who started watching tv prior to the 80s realize that no show today will ever have much cultural impact compared to the old days when there were only a few tv channels, no streaming, and audiences lined up for movie sequels that came out three or four years apart.

 

Momentum is relative.  So no.

[The Commissioner]

I'm excited and disappointed that the season finale is tomorrow! This went by too fast!

[drotto]

I think this is a dead show walking.  I know they have committed to 50 episodes (in theory), and I know season 2 has started filming.  So at least season 2 will definitely get made.  There is no denying that some people like this show. If season 2 does not make some major course corrections, it will have a lot of difficulty holding onto viewers, and multiple years between seasons  will make the show just fall off people's radars. 

 

This show has shown nothing at this point to warrant or make back Amazon's billion dollar commitment.  While it is a top five show (for now these numbers lag by 4 to 5 weeks), for being the most expensive show ever, it needed to be number one for it's entire release run. It needed to be shattering streaming numbers and records, and Amazon was counting on just that. It is a poor use of the money so far. HoD (I know some hate that comparison) is beating RoP for viewers when you combine linear viewing and streaming at 1/3 the budget, and every other show on that list has a fraction of the budget for RoP. So everything here is relative.  The more you spend, and brag about spending, the higher the expectations for reception and returns.  To this point the very mixed fan response and good but not stellar viewing numbers just fail to meet expectations.  Despite the money, they are the numbers of an average to above average streaming show. But for the money, they are not good enough.

[sfcityduck]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:34 AM, drotto said:

I think this is a dead show walking.  I know they have committed to 50 episodes (in theory), and I know season 2 has started filming.  So at least season 2 will definitely get made.  There is no denying that some people like this show. If season 2 does not make some major course corrections, it will have a lot of difficulty holding onto viewers, and multiple years between seasons  will make the show just fall off people's radars. 

 

This show has shown nothing at this point to warrant or make back Amazon's billion dollar commitment.  While it is a top five show (for now these numbers lag by 4 to 5 weeks), for being the most expensive show ever, it needed to be number one for it's entire release run. It needed to be shattering streaming numbers and records, and Amazon was counting on just that. It is a poor use of the money so far. HoD (I know some hate that comparison) is beating RoP for viewers when you combine linear viewing and streaming at 1/3 the budget, and every other show on that list has a fraction of the budget for RoP. So everything here is relative.  The more you spend, and brag about spending, the higher the expectations for reception and returns.  To this point the very mixed fan response and good but not stellar viewing numbers just fail to meet expectations.  Despite the money, they are the numbers of an average to above average streaming show. But for the money, they are not good enough.

^Haters gonna hate^

Not sure why some people enjoy having the "everything I collect is cool, everything you collect sucks" mentality.  What's the point?  I assume to just let off your own steam because it does not move the needle for anyone else. 

Here's the thing: RoP is a top five show. It will be fine. The concern trolling is pointless.  And it's not like your concern is genuine (or grounded in supporting fact or experience).  But blow hard if you want. Far be it for me to interfere with your therapy by interjecting pesky facts and common sense.

[kimik]

Just 5 more minutes until episode 8 drops 

[kimik]

Wow. What an awesome way to end season 1. Like last week, I am not going to post anything until more of us have seen it.

[kimik]

Okay, just one thing. They do have some nice subtle tie-ins to the LoTR trilogy in a couple of spots.

Edited October 14, 2022 by kimik

[Beige]

I must have seen an alternative last episode.

 

$1 billion on this?

What a complete let-down the 'Season Finale' was.

Spoiler

No surprises, no cliff-hangers, just exactly as most people had forseen

 

Very few people will be hanging out for 2 months for the next season - let alone 2 years.

This show is not getting 5 seasons.

[Bosco685]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:01 AM, kimik said:

Wow. What an awesome way to end season 1. Like last week, I am not going to post anything until more of us have seen it.

Agreed!

Although the indicators were all there of who was being lined up in key roles, still the show surprised in the end.

And that misdirect at the start of the episode was a nice touch.

I got tripped up in the end, as I thought a certain female character was not the same person but rather a disguise.

[Bosco685]

 

[BuscemasAvengers]

Just a fantastic finale to the first season. The forging of the 3 rings was well presented.  I do not care if it takes a few years for season 2 to begin: I'll be ready, waiting for the continuation. That damn palantir: toss it into the sea. What about the other 6? Methinks somewhere down the road Sauron's walkie-talkies will come into play ...

[Bosco685]

 

[shadroch]

The last episode was very good, but I'm not sure it was enough to salvage the season. It does set the stage for the next few seasons.  While I give the last episode very high marks, the season, as a whole, was disappointing. 

[drotto]

I know I have angered a few with my opinion so far on this show, and I agree at times I may have gone a bit far.  I do give the show credit for generally being well shot, and most of the costuming and sets look good.  I do think the armor is a bit uninspired and some of the CGI has been wonky, but in general it has looked good.  I also in general have no issues with the cast, for the most part they are doing well with what they were given  I admit, there is enough here to be salvaged (I know shock I would say that), but the writing needs to improve.  The dialog is clunky, they have failed to establish the logic of this world, and yes it does not feel Tolkien.  I might even like the series if it was not being sold as Tolkien. But seeing the totality of where season 1 has gone, the most damaging decision for this show was going with the mystery box of who is Sauron.  I think it constrained the writers, prevented them from including a story threads that would have been interesting, and took away a narrative backbone that would help tie the various storylines together. So getting themselves away from the mystery box could solve many of my issues going forward. Also, it is an approach that in and of itself is not very Tolkien.

 

Let me explain in spoilers for those that either do not wish to read, are sick of me, or still have not watched.

Spoiler

So finding out the Halbrand was Sauron was not really a surprise.  It seemed fairly obvious, many people guess it, so the ultimate reveal falls flat. So by making the entire season about keeping this secrete affects how the entire season plays out, and made it impossible to tell many potentially interesting stories. I think seeing Sauron's manipulations would have been far more interesting, then maintaining the mystery. Here is my reasoning...

1. It makes Galadriel look bad. I competent leader is supposed to know her enemy especially if they have been pursuing them for centuries. He basically tells her who she is when they first met, and she flat out misses it, and then she continues to miss it until she is flat out told. If she was this amazing, fanatic leader she should have seen this. Instead it makes her look either incompetent, arrogant, or stupid. Although, it still does not make sense why when she found out he could not be trusted, why did she not tell the people forging the rings?

2. It takes Sauron from being a long planning manipulating villain to a purely opportunistic one. So he see Mount Doom created and says this may be useful to me.  He sees the elves creating the rings, and says this may be helpful to me.  He did not cause any of this to happen however, or we we given no indication he has coordinated this.

3. It makes it feel like characters are being pulled along by events rather then actively affecting the events.

4. It lets the writers use the box as a carrot to pull viewers along, rather then feel they need to give us compelling pieces in between.

5. It makes Galadriel look like she caused all of this.  If Halbrand was in the least bit sincere about wanting a simple life in Numenor, then she forced him back onto the road of evil. A gave him the keys by showing him Mount Doom and giving access to corrupt the Elvin rings.

So, if they had revealed Sauron to the audience, not the characters how would this have changed the story and possibly made it better.

1. They could have made Sauron a more menacing and conniving villain from the start.  This would have created much more consistent tension in the season.  Shown a much more looming threat.

2. He would then be a manipulating presence as opposed to a passive one. Pushing the Dwarves to mine the mithril.  Pushing the Elves to make the rings.  Using Adar to create Mount Doom. having spies planted with the Dwarves, Elves, and with men. Thus he becomes an active player, pushing his goal.  In LOTR he is shown as a master long term planner and manipulator.  The way he corrupted and manipulated Wormtounge and Saruman.  They way he controlled and molded events using this approach. Knowing his identity earlier would have shown that far better.

3. The witches would also have been controlled by him and therefor actively hunting to destroy a threat to Sauron.  So he knows there are powerful players he needs to guard against. Not just hoping he is Sauron and then being easily dismissed

4. Having Galadriel be manipulated just like everyone else, makes her a more sympathetic character. Also setting up a character change arc for her triggered by realizing how she was manipulated. That vengeance blinded her. I suspect this is where they are going, but it may have deflected much of the criticism against her character this season.

5. like I said about it give a narrative thread to better tie these stories together.

 

These are just some of my though.  I know many will disagree, but I felt that in trying to bring this back to a more level headed discussion, with ideas as opposed to pure oppositionm this can be a better discussion.  I still really do hope they find a way to fix many of my quibbles in season 2. 

 

[Bosco685]

Spoiler

 

 

[Dr. Love]

inconsiderate spoiler reveal!

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Dr. Love
abasement

[shadroch]

I doubt Sauron knew Wormtongue existed, outside of Saruman mentioning him in passing.

[drotto]

On 10/15/2022 at 6:37 PM, Dr. Love said:

was hoping Halbrand wasn't Sauron - that Charlie Vickers doesn't have the heft for this part would be the understatement of the year.  yeh ymmv, but if you disagree, you have no taste!!  

did Gandalf say, "I am Groot"?  please tell me he said that

undeniably, the end song was the best thing about the first season - just killer chords and vocal to match - genius to get Fiona Apple to sing it

if you've never heard her cover of Pure Imagination - well, you're welcome!

 

 

No he basically used the follow your nose quote verbatim. 

[Bosco685]

On 10/15/2022 at 6:37 PM, Dr. Love said:

Spoiler

was hoping Halbrand wasn't Sauron - that Charlie Vickers doesn't have the heft for this part would be the understatement of the year.  yeh ymmv, but if you disagree, you have no taste!!  

did Gandalf say, "I am Groot" after he demolishes EminElf and her crew?  please tell me he said that

undeniably, the end song was the best thing about the first season - just killer chords and vocal to match - genius to get Fiona Apple to sing it

if you've never heard her cover of Pure Imagination - well, you're welcome!

 

 

I understand you don't like the direction of the show.

But why would you post a spoiler the week of the episode releasing?