When will the “comic con” bubble burst? 5 5

[1Cool]

13 minutes ago, mysterio said:

Question to @1Cool and others who expect a discount to eBay at cons. Why would you expect dealers to take a discount to FMV after hauling books across the county for you to see? I guarantee that it’s cheaper and easier for them to sell on eBay, so why expect dealers to work harder for less money? You expect less risk, more choice, AND a discount?

That sense of entitlement seems to me to be part of the recipe that ends comic cons as we know/want them. 

I think you must have misread what I said earlier or I wasn't clear.  My opinion is most people actively buying at shows are looking for a 10-15% discount compared to E-Bay prices and I was happy to hear someone come out and say it.  When I buy to keep I'm happy to pay E-Bay prices so I can see the books and avoid shipping issues but I also know how tough it is to do Cons so I may be sympathetic.  I had a thread a bit ago and several buyers voiced the opinion that paying for the ticket and driving to the Con was also more difficult so why go unless they get a deal.  Sounds like a receipt for no one being very happy. 

[WoWitHurts]

26 minutes ago, mysterio said:

Question to @1Cool and others who expect a discount to eBay at cons. Why would you expect dealers to take a discount to FMV after hauling books across the county for you to see? I guarantee that it’s cheaper and easier for them to sell on eBay, so why expect dealers to work harder for less money? You expect less risk, more choice, AND a discount?

That sense of entitlement seems to me to be part of the recipe that ends comic cons as we know/want them. 

I would be happy with FMV.

[mysterio]

12 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I think you must have misread what I said earlier or I wasn't clear.  My opinion is most people actively buying at shows are looking for a 10-15% discount compared to E-Bay prices and I was happy to hear someone come out and say it.  When I buy to keep I'm happy to pay E-Bay prices so I can see the books and avoid shipping issues but I also know how tough it is to do Cons so I may be sympathetic.  I had a thread a bit ago and several buyers voiced the opinion that paying for the ticket and driving to the Con was also more difficult so why go unless they get a deal.  Sounds like a receipt for no one being very happy. 

I quite possibly misread your post so thanks for clarifying.   I agree that enough people see the math that way that this perception could be a problem for the longer term health of good buying shows. 

[blazingbob]

15 minutes ago, WoWitHurts said:

I would be happy with FMV.

FMV determined by who?

[blazingbob]

19 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I think you must have misread what I said earlier or I wasn't clear.  My opinion is most people actively buying at shows are looking for a 10-15% discount compared to E-Bay prices and I was happy to hear someone come out and say it.  When I buy to keep I'm happy to pay E-Bay prices so I can see the books and avoid shipping issues but I also know how tough it is to do Cons so I may be sympathetic.  I had a thread a bit ago and several buyers voiced the opinion that paying for the ticket and driving to the Con was also more difficult so why go unless they get a deal.  Sounds like a receipt for no one being very happy. 

Ebay is a selling channel,  not a single entity where there are uniform prices on books across the boards.  Who are the ebay sellers I should be pricing my inventory against?  

[slg343]

20 hours ago, blazingbob said:

So both of you use a business model where you trust the raw grading from Ebay.  Which from the many Ebay posts over the years I find is not always very accurate.  So if your expecting me to look up raw books on ebay from sellers I don't know to price my books I'm not sure I'm the guy you would buy from.  My experience from selling raw books on ebay was that it was a complete waste of time.  All I did was pay for the sellers who couldn't grade because if I listed a book a NM-/9.2 raw on ebay I saw offers of VF.  Regardless of the book.  Besides I have a website with hosting costs of less then a penny versus ebay which nickels and dimes the seller to death.  

As I stated I am not your target market.  Also books at cons are just as over graded as ebay.  But with ebay I can find a flaw later and return it.  So yes I would expect a bigger discount for something I need a make a quick no returns allowed judgement.  With that said what is the excuse for being higher on CGC books?

There are just unlimited markets to buy from now.  Facebook, Instagram, here that there is never a reason to over pay.  It has becomes a buyers market.

I certainly wish dealers the beston thier sales because I love the hobby but it just isn't for me.  I don't want to haggle and just want the best price for the book.

[slg343]

20 hours ago, blazingbob said:

So both of you use a business model where you trust the raw grading from Ebay.  Which from the many Ebay posts over the years I find is not always very accurate.  So if your expecting me to look up raw books on ebay from sellers I don't know to price my books I'm not sure I'm the guy you would buy from.  My experience from selling raw books on ebay was that it was a complete waste of time.  All I did was pay for the sellers who couldn't grade because if I listed a book a NM-/9.2 raw on ebay I saw offers of VF.  Regardless of the book.  Besides I have a website with hosting costs of less then a penny versus ebay which nickels and dimes the seller to death.  

Also a pet peeve of mine is when a seller using number system like 9.2 is there a refund if a third party IE disagrees.  Just use range like NM-

[1Cool]

1 minute ago, blazingbob said:

Ebay is a selling channel,  not a single entity where there are uniform prices on books across the boards.  Who are the ebay sellers I should be pricing my inventory against?  

Great question.  I find people will know there is 4 nice copies of a book (lets say X-Men 141) up for sale between $50 - $65.  They will want it for $45 since the lowest price is $50 so they need 10% under that price.  Never mind the actual grade of the $50 copy compared to the $65 copy but all of them are nice enough to be considered high grade so in their mind that is the price point for all the nice X-Men 141 at a show. 

[WoWitHurts]

11 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

FMV determined by who?

How do you as a dealer determine your prices?

[blazingbob]

2 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Great question.  I find people will know there is 4 nice copies of a book (lets say X-Men 141) up for sale between $50 - $65.  They will want it for $45 since the lowest price is $50 so they need 10% under that price.  Never mind the actual grade of the $50 copy compared to the $65 copy but all of them are nice enough to be considered high grade so in their mind that is the price point for all the nice X-Men 141 at a show. 

For that pricing model to work they all have to be the same grade,  not "high grade" which could mean 8.0 to 9.6.  

 

[slg343]

54 minutes ago, mysterio said:

Question to @1Cool and others who expect a discount to eBay at cons. Why would you expect dealers to take a discount to FMV after hauling books across the county for you to see? I guarantee that it’s cheaper and easier for them to sell on eBay, so why expect dealers to work harder for less money? You expect less risk, more choice, AND a discount?

That sense of entitlement seems to me to be part of the recipe that ends comic cons as we know/want them. 

This is not entitlement it is marketing 101.  Consumers don't care what it cost a seller to make something only what the opportunity cost is to them.  So the argument that dealers work harder is moot.  The comicbook is the comicbook regardless of how it arrives in the consumers hands.

[blazingbob]

Just now, WoWitHurts said:

How do you as a dealer determine your prices?

For raw books I have a database of past sales going back to the 90's.  I have been around buying and selling books since 1973.  Overstreet price guide still works.

I would never use Ebay as a raw book gauge to price my inventory.  

For CGC books there is GPA,  my database,  competitor websites.  

[blazingbob]

8 minutes ago, slg343 said:

Also a pet peeve of mine is when a seller using number system like 9.2 is there a refund if a third party IE disagrees.  Just use range like NM-

NM- is not a range,  that is what the 9.2 alpha grade is.

[WoWitHurts]

1 minute ago, blazingbob said:

For raw books I have a database of past sales going back to the 90's.  I have been around buying and selling books since 1973.  Overstreet price guide still works.

I would never use Ebay as a raw book gauge to price my inventory.  

For CGC books there is GPA,  my database,  competitor websites.  

I use Overstreet as a gauge for raw. The thing about ebay is if you are a seller and you misrepresent the grade it is going to be returned. I find most of the books I get from ebay is in the range of what is described.  If a seller posts no grade and simply says check out blurry pics for grade I pass 100% of the time.

[slg343]

19 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Great question.  I find people will know there is 4 nice copies of a book (lets say X-Men 141) up for sale between $50 - $65.  They will want it for $45 since the lowest price is $50 so they need 10% under that price.  Never mind the actual grade of the $50 copy compared to the $65 copy but all of them are nice enough to be considered high grade so in their mind that is the price point for all the nice X-Men 141 at a show. 

People can argue all they like but at the end of the day this nails how people think.  You don't need to like and you can fight it to failure or you can find a way to adjust and profit. 

[TheFifthHorseman]

26 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

Great question.  I find people will know there is 4 nice copies of a book (lets say X-Men 141) up for sale between $50 - $65.  They will want it for $45 since the lowest price is $50 so they need 10% under that price.  Never mind the actual grade of the $50 copy compared to the $65 copy but all of them are nice enough to be considered high grade so in their mind that is the price point for all the nice X-Men 141 at a show. 

Nobody wants to INVEST in a book.

If you believe in a comic or a character you should be willing to drop a little cheese on it.

Otherwise nobody else will want to value it also. And then prices continue to bottom out.

We're too quick to use GPA and past sales as markers of a book's value.

Why not use raw emotion to drive our buying?

"I want this and I am willing to pay for it."

Not everything has to be a bargain.

[thehumantorch]

14 hours ago, mysterio said:

I don’t mind paying 10-15% over eBay at a con for books that are going in my collection. I can inspect the books, comparison shop, get them instantly, and there is no risk of damage during shipping. All that plus the enjoyment of attending a show. Seems like a good deal to me. If I can score a few winners out of the cheap boxes on top of all that it makes for a fun weekend. 

Absolutely. 

Inspecting the books in person is a huge win, there's so much that I can't discern from a scan or more and more, a cruddy picture on an online venue.  How white and supple and the pages, how bright are the cover colors, is there hidden restoration,  is it graded accurately?  It matter to me, especially for GA books.

And often you can bundle a few books and get that price down to ebay or less prices.

 

[TheFifthHorseman]

Just now, thehumantorch said:

And often you can bundle a few books and get that price down to ebay or less prices.

 

THAT is the key right there.

Stack bundles. Work those deals.

You know how many sellers I've tried to drop offers on MULTIPLE books and they turn me down every time.

Apparently nobody wants to make a nice chunk at once.

[thehumantorch]

26 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

For raw books I have a database of past sales going back to the 90's.  I have been around buying and selling books since 1973.  Overstreet price guide still works.

I would never use Ebay as a raw book gauge to price my inventory.  

For CGC books there is GPA,  my database,  competitor websites.  

1973?  Jeez Bob, haven't you qualified for the comic book seller's pension yet?  

[blazingbob]

1 minute ago, thehumantorch said:

1973?  Jeez Bob, haven't you qualified for the comic book seller's pension yet?  

Sorry I'm still trying to wrap myself around the new "Ebay pricing model" for my inventory.  Being ebay sellers are also "people" I would wonder how they come up with their "prices".   Or is the first seller of that book in that grade the "expert"?