When will the “comic con” bubble burst? 5 5

[blazingbob]

25 minutes ago, WoWitHurts said:

I feel like you are attacking me a bit. You are implying that I expect high grade books to be sold half guide. Which is not the case. I will pay what I believe is fair pricing. 

I will give you a example. Dealer had IM 99 with a sticker of $60. Guide is $15 for a 9.2 so what is this dealer representing with that price? I can tell you it wasn't a 9.8 candidate. With discount dealer wanted $52. If you think that is a good deal I have a lot of comics to sell to you. IM is notoriously unloved and I can pick up great books under guide all day long online. One of the reasons I like IM is its affordability. 

No I'm trying to find out your "buyer expectation".  I didn't say you expect to buy high grade at half guide.  I was asking since you stated 30% over guide that maybe you were a buyer who is willing to pay guide or less depending on the discount.  My point was that to sell the book at 80% of guide I (dealer) would be paying 50%.  High grade collectors generally don't sell high grade books for half guide.  4x guide on a Iron man #99 is very aggressive.  

[WoWitHurts]

50 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

No I'm trying to find out your "buyer expectation".  I didn't say you expect to buy high grade at half guide.  I was asking since you stated 30% over guide that maybe you were a buyer who is willing to pay guide or less depending on the discount.  My point was that to sell the book at 80% of guide I (dealer) would be paying 50%.  High grade collectors generally don't sell high grade books for half guide.  4x guide on a Iron man #99 is very aggressive.  

And I bought a 9.6/9.8 99 online for $9. Why would I go to a con if this has been my experience? C2E2 will probably be my only buying con. I will go to WW St. louis because my son likes going but I doubt it lasts past this year and it is a horrible buying con.

[blazingbob]

I agree,  why would you go to a con if you can buy 9.6/9.8 books for less then the cost of grading them.  Which is the general theme of this thread,  no?  As dealers at shows I don't work off osmosis or Vulcan mind melds so how would we know what the "buyers expectation" is if they don't tell us?  Yours is that online buying doesn't make it worth going to a show.  And if you do go sellers better have something priced right that interests you.  

[slg343]

5 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

I agree,  why would you go to a con if you can buy 9.6/9.8 books for less then the cost of grading them.  Which is the general theme of this thread,  no?  As dealers at shows I don't work off osmosis or Vulcan mind melds so how would we know what the "buyers expectation" is if they don't tell us?  Yours is that online buying doesn't make it worth going to a show.  And if you do go sellers better have something priced right that interests you.  

This is why I gave up on all but the hardest to find books.  If I am at a con and to make this easy a graded book is $700 at the con but I can click a button while standing at the booth and buy it for $500 I will just keep walking.  And in truth this is almost always the case lately.   I understand it from a dealer perspective, sell a NM98 9.8 for 1k and snag some people that don't shop around but the people responding on this board are more informed.  I realized that I am not the target market for Con dealers and now just enjoy getting art commissions which at least puts money in the hands of the artist.  In order for me to become a customer, I would need prices about 15% under the bay otherwise it is just easier to have it shipped to the house with buyer protection.  Just my 2 cents.

[WoWitHurts]

3 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

I agree,  why would you go to a con if you can buy 9.6/9.8 books for less then the cost of grading them.  Which is the general theme of this thread,  no?  As dealers at shows I don't work off osmosis or Vulcan mind melds so how would we know what the "buyers expectation" is if they don't tell us?  Yours is that online buying doesn't make it worth going to a show.  And if you do go sellers better have something priced right that interests you.  

The book I am referencing was raw just to clarify. I do expect dealers at cons to at least be priced  in the same ballpark. I will pay a little higher for a book I get to inspect right in front of me and I would prefer to purchase from dealers I like. I keep very detailed information on what I buy and from who and for how much. I like going back to those people I get fair deals with. Online or at cons. 

[1Cool]

11 minutes ago, slg343 said:

This is why I gave up on all but the hardest to find books.  If I am at a con and to make this easy a graded book is $700 at the con but I can click a button while standing at the booth and buy it for $500 I will just keep walking.  And in truth this is almost always the case lately.   I understand it from a dealer perspective, sell a NM98 9.8 for 1k and snag some people that don't shop around but the people responding on this board are more informed.  I realized that I am not the target market for Con dealers and now just enjoy getting art commissions which at least puts money in the hands of the artist.  In order for me to become a customer, I would need prices about 15% under the bay otherwise it is just easier to have it shipped to the house with buyer protection.  Just my 2 cents.

15% below E-Bay sounds about right for most people actively buying at Cons - thanks for being vocal and honest about what you are looking for.

Edited November 20, 2017 by 1Cool

[blazingbob]

Just now, 1Cool said:

15% below E-Bay sounds about right for most people actively buying at Cons - thanks for being vocal and honest about what you are looking for.

So both of you use a business model where you trust the raw grading from Ebay.  Which from the many Ebay posts over the years I find is not always very accurate.  So if your expecting me to look up raw books on ebay from sellers I don't know to price my books I'm not sure I'm the guy you would buy from.  My experience from selling raw books on ebay was that it was a complete waste of time.  All I did was pay for the sellers who couldn't grade because if I listed a book a NM-/9.2 raw on ebay I saw offers of VF.  Regardless of the book.  Besides I have a website with hosting costs of less then a penny versus ebay which nickels and dimes the seller to death.  

[Lucky Baru]

On 11/19/2017 at 10:52 AM, mysterio said:

I still think cosplay is a trend that will die off when this generation finds something else to do. The “pros” will fall by the wayside when the mega-cons start to dwindle. 

Who will be at the shows then?

[1Cool]

1 minute ago, blazingbob said:

So both of you use a business model where you trust the raw grading from Ebay.  Which from the many Ebay posts over the years I find is not always very accurate.  So if your expecting me to look up raw books on ebay from sellers I don't know to price my books I'm not sure I'm the guy you would buy from.  My experience from selling raw books on ebay was that it was a complete waste of time.  All I did was pay for the sellers who couldn't grade because if I listed a book a NM-/9.2 raw on ebay I saw offers of VF.  Regardless of the book.  Besides I have a website with hosting costs of less then a penny versus ebay which nickels and dimes the seller to death.  

I like your website since it's easy to search for books in your inventory.  Bought a couple books like your Marvel Graphic Novel 4 CGC 9.8 that I thought may go up before the movie.  You responded quickly to my offer and have always been good to deal with.  Buying on E-Bay is always a tough one but I find buyers at Cons know every price of books on the Bay and want me to beat them in person or they walk.  They don't look at the grade unless its cheaper then books on E-Bay so grade must not be that important.  I'm fed up with selling at Cons and I'm dropping down from 2 this year to only doing a friends next year.  It's all hassle with very little benefit that I can see.  I'll still go to see if anything is missed in the boxes but in terms of selling its just a ton easier online.

[jsilverjanet]

There’s some inventory that sells better at a show

[WoWitHurts]

29 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

So both of you use a business model where you trust the raw grading from Ebay.  Which from the many Ebay posts over the years I find is not always very accurate.  So if your expecting me to look up raw books on ebay from sellers I don't know to price my books I'm not sure I'm the guy you would buy from.  My experience from selling raw books on ebay was that it was a complete waste of time.  All I did was pay for the sellers who couldn't grade because if I listed a book a NM-/9.2 raw on ebay I saw offers of VF.  Regardless of the book.  Besides I have a website with hosting costs of less then a penny versus ebay which nickels and dimes the seller to death.  

I don't trust raw grading on ebay necessarily. Some books I buy thinking they are under graded and sometimes that is the case and sometimes not.  I don't expect anything from you but if you have books in the range of guide I will buy it and there is nearly as much risk of a dealer over grading as anywhere else. I don't pull every book out to inspect it and some dealers are better at grading than others. It does help to have it in hand to at least look at the cover.

I don't just buy from ebay.  I have a long list of dealer sites I use also.

[1Cool]

43 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

There’s some inventory that sells better at a show

Better help out all the dealers who are not selling anymore at these larger Cons since they obviously can't figure out which ones are selling.

[Robot Man]

On 11/19/2017 at 10:15 AM, oakman29 said:

The Comic Con experience has died for me about 5 years ago. When you have to spend an entire night in a line to get next years tickets for SDCC sucked. Forget about the hotel I spent 600.00 a night for a comfortable bed, think I'll sleep on a dock outside. The small shows are the best. The only show I go to now is Terry O Neils Yorba Linda show. I've had it with the crowds.

+1 I can also add WonderCon and the Berkley Con looks interesting. SDCC is also dead to me. I would like to do Baltimore or maybe Heroes once. Just got to time it out with some other non-comic book activity like a big flea market or antique show to make it worth the cost of going. 

[Lethal_Collector]

Once people get tired of the same old swag every year, they'll stop.  I stopped once they brought in tons of swag and less and less comic dealers showed up.

 

 

Jerome

[jsilverjanet]

1 hour ago, 1Cool said:

Better help out all the dealers who are not selling anymore at these larger Cons since they obviously can't figure out which ones are selling.

I can’t help someone who doesnt think they maybe part of the problem. This is sales. Getting someone to buy something from you that isn’t a necessity is complex. There are a dozen factors involved in making a comic con successful. Showing up with a bunch of books, keys even, priced right isn’t enough when there are other dealers more professional in the room. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen firsthand someone buy a book from someone, paid more with one dealer than another one for the exact same book.

Edited November 20, 2017 by jsilverjanet

[Buzzetta]

I look for Golden Age, ASM Upgrades, and Key Books.  I find that I do better at auction and negotiating directly with other collectors through the boards, CLink, Comic Connect and things like that.  Occasionally I will look for something that at a show and feel out prices because no one else has it.  However, I keep noticing that EVERYTHING is basically available.  The patience is finding it at the condition and price a person is comfortable paying.  

So... why still go to Comic Con?

I like to walk around and I still look for odds and ends that I would not normally get as well as signature opportunities and buying artwork. Occasionally I will find a book purchase that makes it worth my trip.   This year it was another GA Action.  

Edited November 20, 2017 by Buzzetta

[kimik]

On 11/19/2017 at 12:54 PM, thehumantorch said:

A $1500 booth is a lot if you don't have the inventory to make it work, especially if you're an out of town dealer and have to pay for travel, hotel, beer and foot powder.  I'm always looking to sell 10X my cost so perhaps $25k gross sales at a multi-day, out of town show which would require at least 250k in inventory.  You won't make bank no matter how many buyers are there if you don't have enough inventory.

And Bob is right, setting up at single day shows is a lot of work.  I'd much rather set up at a multi-day show and get 2, 3, or 4 days of selling before dragging it home.  

 

That's only because you and Karl bring too much stuff to the one day shows.   My  that next year I can get back to doing 1 day shows with just four longs and a couple of shorts with good stuff/slabs like I used to. 

Right now the formula at one-day shows to maximize profit is fairly clear - bring the hot modern stuff from the past few months and keys. The rest takes up space with limited ROI on the time to sort and prep.

Edited November 20, 2017 by kimik

[fastballspecial]

If a con is close to me and I can buy from 10-15 dealers in one spot I am there early too if I can. I am not looking to buy keys so pricing isn't a huge problem for me. Its the inventory and opportunity I want. I can buy online all day, but I can't get the volume in one place in one day like I can a convention. I will continue to go to them, but I will avoid shows that don't look like they have enough dealers. I really prefer smaller dealers anyway because you can get the best service, pricing, and opportunities from them. I am not worth the time of a larger dealer and I know it. I am fine with that.

 

[mysterio]

6 hours ago, 1Cool said:

15% below E-Bay sounds about right for most people actively buying at Cons - thanks for being vocal and honest about what you are looking for.

I don’t mind paying 10-15% over eBay at a con for books that are going in my collection. I can inspect the books, comparison shop, get them instantly, and there is no risk of damage during shipping. All that plus the enjoyment of attending a show. Seems like a good deal to me. If I can score a few winners out of the cheap boxes on top of all that it makes for a fun weekend. 

[mysterio]

Question to @1Cool and others who expect a discount to eBay at cons. Why would you expect dealers to take a discount to FMV after hauling books across the county for you to see? I guarantee that it’s cheaper and easier for them to sell on eBay, so why expect dealers to work harder for less money? You expect less risk, more choice, AND a discount?

That sense of entitlement seems to me to be part of the recipe that ends comic cons as we know/want them. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by mysterio