When will the “comic con” bubble burst? 5 5

[lizards2]

4 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Everyone is checking con prices to Ebay prices?  I never check ebay prices when I buying raw books at shows.  I never see my competitors checking ebay for raw purchases.  Exactly how long would that take if I'm trying to buy a bunch of books?  I check my database and OSPG and the condition of the book when I buy it.  I also know what I can sell it for.  

As far as the can I be higher and not have key books to be successful how do you think many dealers started?  Do you think I magically fell into my inventory.  It is years and years of hard work.  If I didn't have the ability to buy and turn over my inventory year after year do you think I would still be in business?  This business is not entirely built on price.  You can be the cheapest but if nobody knows you then so what.  

You know, Bob, I think we're having some discussion here, and we've all got different backgrounds - collectors, part time sellers, dealers, etc., so a lot of time we are talking past each other due to the context of our backgrounds.

I don't know if I'm just too sensitive, or west coasty,  but your writing just seems to be an in your face assault a lot of the time.

[TheFifthHorseman]

5 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

You know ... I think we're having some discussion here,

This is what we should be doing.

I guess we've all just got our heels dug in a little deep.

[blazingbob]

14 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

You know, Bob, I think we're having some discussion here, and we've all got different backgrounds - collectors, part time sellers, dealers, etc., so a lot of time we are talking past each other due to the context of our backgrounds.

I don't know if I'm just too sensitive, or west coasty,  but your writing just seems to be an in your face assault a lot of the time.

Then feel free to put me on ignore.  

[october]

9 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

You know, Bob, I think we're having some discussion here, and we've all got different backgrounds - collectors, part time sellers, dealers, etc., so a lot of time we are talking past each other due to the context of our backgrounds.

I don't know if I'm just too sensitive, or west coasty,  but your writing just seems to be an in your face assault a lot of the time.

Some context would be also helpful. 

Saying "people look up keys on eBay" is a pretty broad generalization. From what I have seen, keys like ASM 300, XM 266, NM 98, etc are much more price sensitive than harder to find, older books. People do show up at cons, look at every decent ASM 300, lump them all together in their heads, then buy the cheapest one after checking eBay for comparables. I don't think buyers are following the same process for a fine range Action 242, or a F/VF Batman 121, or a VF Sgt. Fury 1. Potentially very different pools of buyers with very different habits. 

I know that the way I approach buying an ASM 300 and the way I approach buying a high grade golden age classic cover have little to nothing in common. 

[Wall-Crawler]

28 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Everyone is checking con prices to Ebay prices?  I never check ebay prices when I buying raw books at shows. 

I am a small fish, "weekend warrior" local con seller.  I like to think I price fairly.

However, even for these very small shows, I have noticed probably 40% of buyers checking out ebay and other site prices on their phones, both keys and common books (sigh).  I find if the offer is too low, I also state the reason the winning bid is low is because those buyers also take into account the shipping cost, as would they, if they bought it off ebay.  My "schtick" is that I state, with me, their is no shipping cost, no wait time and you have the book in hand immediately. In the end, I am willing to deal and usually am able to come to a mutually agreeable price.  

Edited November 21, 2017 by Wall-Crawler
more detail

[chrisco37]

15 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

You know, Bob, I think we're having some discussion here, and we've all got different backgrounds - collectors, part time sellers, dealers, etc., so a lot of time we are talking past each other due to the context of our backgrounds.

I don't know if I'm just too sensitive, or west coasty,  but your writing just seems to be an in your face assault a lot of the time.

Bob just doesn't beat around the bush.   It may come off sometimes as "surly" or "in your face" but, having known him for many years now, I don't think it's "mean spirited" (I don't read it that way).   Just to the point. 

[1Cool]

6 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Then feel free to put me on ignore.  

I always enjoy talking with you and I always get some good info but for some reason I always get the feeling I'm Dennis The Menace and you are Mr. Wilson.

[blazingbob]

2 minutes ago, Wall-Crawler said:

I am a small fish, "weekend warrior" local con seller.  I like to think I price fairly.

However, even for these very small shows, I have noticed probably 40% of buyers checking out ebay and other site prices on their phones, both keys and common books (sigh).  I find if the offer is too low, I also state the reason the winning bid is low is because those buyers also take into account the shipping cost, as would they, if they bought it off ebay.  My "schtick" is that I state, with me, their is no shipping cost, no wait time and you have the book in hand immediately. In the end, I am willing to deal and usually am able to come to a mutually agreeable price.  

If I am checking prices on my phone that is usually for CGC graded books.  Unless a customer is communicating with me in most cases I wouldn't know what they are looking at unless they told me.  And since I don't like pushy salesman either when I am shopping doesn't asking a customer if they are checking Ebay or somewhere else put them on the defensive?    

[1Cool]

18 minutes ago, october said:

Some context would be also helpful. 

Saying "people look up keys on eBay" is a pretty broad generalization. From what I have seen, keys like ASM 300, XM 266, NM 98, etc are much more price sensitive than harder to find, older books. People do show up at cons, look at every decent ASM 300, lump them all together in their heads, then buy the cheapest one after checking eBay for comparables. I don't think buyers are following the same process for a fine range Action 242, or a F/VF Batman 121, or a VF Sgt. Fury 1. Potentially very different pools of buyers with very different habits. 

I know that the way I approach buying an ASM 300 and the way I approach buying a high grade golden age classic cover have little to nothing in common. 

Well put.  Bob is definitely coming from a much different stand point and is dealing with vastly different buyers.  I'm probably going to have more in common and more to talk about with the small fish sellers on the boards.  But it sure is interesting to hear how life is for the big fish in the pound.

Edited November 21, 2017 by 1Cool

[TheFifthHorseman]

1 minute ago, blazingbob said:

And since I don't like pushy salesman either when I am shopping doesn't asking a customer if they are checking Ebay or somewhere else put them on the defensive?    

Depends.

Are they waiting on you to make a sale or are you quietly checking on your own?

[blazingbob]

When it comes to CGC books 9 times out of 10 the customer will check GPA.

When it comes to raw books they generally already have a price in mind on what they want to pay for it.  I generally don't have a lot of customers look at a raw book and check out the price on ebay.  If we are far apart on price and they won't make an offer I ask what they are willing to spend.   Then I will go to my database and see what cost I have into the book,  if I can do it I will,  if I can't I won't.  Same when I am processing bids on my website.  

I am not sure how I can help customers who are uncomfortable making offers.  I cannot guess where their "price they will pay expectation" comes from unless they tell me.  

 

[TheFifthHorseman]

1 minute ago, blazingbob said:

When it comes to CGC books 9 times out of 10 the customer will check GPA.

 

I use GPA. It's not the end-all-be-all though.

[slg343]

2 hours ago, blazingbob said:

Sorry I'm still trying to wrap myself around the new "Ebay pricing model" for my inventory.  Being ebay sellers are also "people" I would wonder how they come up with their "prices".   Or is the first seller of that book in that grade the "expert"?

 

My guess would be auction sales, list price that the book sits at for x amount of time so reduced ECT ECT.  As a buyer you quickly get an idea of what the cost will be to obtain and item from looking at sold listings.  Do some sellers under price the market yes ( I am one of them because it is just hobby to me).  The same as a well respected dealer can get over market prices.   But think don't understand ebay pricing model is a silly stance.

[slg343]

27 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

Then feel free to put me on ignore.  

Ha this hurts your industry way more than ebay.  And I put 90% of dealer on ignore because the in person experience is the same.  

[slg343]

28 minutes ago, october said:

Some context would be also helpful. 

Saying "people look up keys on eBay" is a pretty broad generalization. From what I have seen, keys like ASM 300, XM 266, NM 98, etc are much more price sensitive than harder to find, older books. People do show up at cons, look at every decent ASM 300, lump them all together in their heads, then buy the cheapest one after checking eBay for comparables. I don't think buyers are following the same process for a fine range Action 242, or a F/VF Batman 121, or a VF Sgt. Fury 1. Potentially very different pools of buyers with very different habits. 

I know that the way I approach buying an ASM 300 and the way I approach buying a high grade golden age classic cover have little to nothing in common. 

True for raw books.  CGC graded books I am 100% checking ebay first.

[slg343]

8 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

When it comes to CGC books 9 times out of 10 the customer will check GPA.

When it comes to raw books they generally already have a price in mind on what they want to pay for it.  I generally don't have a lot of customers look at a raw book and check out the price on ebay.  If we are far apart on price and they won't make an offer I ask what they are willing to spend.   Then I will go to my database and see what cost I have into the book,  if I can do it I will,  if I can't I won't.  Same when I am processing bids on my website.  

I am not sure how I can help customers who are uncomfortable making offers.  I cannot guess where their "price they will pay expectation" comes from unless they tell me.  

 

This is a difficult spot for you.  If a book sells normally for 800 and you price at 1k I just thing well no need to negotiate against myself and I love on.  If you price at $800 then you set yourself up for low balls.   Your job definetly isn't easy.

[TheFifthHorseman]

5 minutes ago, slg343 said:

True for raw books.  CGC graded books I am 100% checking ebay first.

Why?

If the book is centered properly, has nice pq, and is a fair price then why not go for it.

I'll say it again - not every buy has to be a bargain. People routinely pay over GPA for a book.

I just paid 2x GPA (2004) in an unrecorded sale.

Why?

Because I wanted the damn book.

Edited November 21, 2017 by TheFifthHorseman

[blazingbob]

Just now, slg343 said:

This is a difficult spot for you.  If a book sells normally for 800 and you price at 1k I just thing well no need to negotiate against myself and I love on.  If you price at $800 then you set yourself up for low balls.   Your job definetly isn't easy.

So I should have the book priced at $800 and no discount.  Doesn't exactly endear myself to the customer base that wants a discount.  Yes,  my job isn't easy.  

[ygogolak]

3 hours ago, mysterio said:

Question to @1Cool and others who expect a discount to eBay at cons. Why would you expect dealers to take a discount to FMV after hauling books across the county for you to see? I guarantee that it’s cheaper and easier for them to sell on eBay, so why expect dealers to work harder for less money? You expect less risk, more choice, AND a discount?

That sense of entitlement seems to me to be part of the recipe that ends comic cons as we know/want them. 

They can sell it on eBay if they want and have the following factors at hand:

1. FMV is not what you walk away with on eBay after fees.

2. Most people on eBay are not repeat buyers. It's a matter of price.

3. There are lots of people on eBay without scruples who will make inaccurate claims or take advantage of the return system. (time spent)

4. You have to ship it (time spent, $ shipping supplies).

5. The tax man knows what you are making (tax implications).

6. See first 5 reasons.

[jsilverjanet]

59 minutes ago, lizards2 said:

You know, Bob, I think we're having some discussion here, and we've all got different backgrounds - collectors, part time sellers, dealers, etc., so a lot of time we are talking past each other due to the context of our backgrounds.

I don't know if I'm just too sensitive, or west coasty,  but your writing just seems to be an in your face assault a lot of the time.

Man up buttercup