STAR WARS : Episode IX December 20, 2019 6 6

[Comics4All]

9 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

How many of you plan on going to theatres to see it?

The only reason I will see it in the theater is because someone will spoil it for me if I wait until DVD comes out!

 

[Buzzetta]

1 hour ago, fantastic_four said:

We can complain about directors, but they're not the problem.  When you've got an ongoing story like Star Wars, you need a gatekeeper of the lore who doesn't let directors get off-track.  Kathleen Kennedy is a great producer, but she's not the one to be the gatekeeper.  Someone with intimate knowledge, love, and understanding of the content and characters needs to be that person, someone like perhaps Pablo Hidalgo.  Or maybe not, I know very little about him.  You can't leave it up to directors, because sometimes you get one who's great with the material, but most often you don't.  Sam Raimi did great, Christopher Nolan did great, and Irvin Kershner did great, but there's an element of luck to their selection.  You won't always luck out leaving a work mostly up to directors.

Kevin Feige is that guy for Marvel.  I'd love for Lucas to be that guy again for Star Wars, but he was just worn out for whatever reason.  He would've been a PHENOMENAL guy just playing the Feige role of giving general guidelines for films somewhat like he did with Episodes V and VI--although he did exert a ton of control over both of those films that drove the directors nuts--but something about his ego never let him do it.  I'm shocked that they're actually trying to stretch Feige out thin with his own Star Wars movie, but who knows, maybe he'll get them on track.

Lucas had a vision.  People criticize the prequels but I think they would have no matter what was made.  Prequels are the hardest story to tell since we already know where we are going in the story. 

Obi Wan, Chewbacca, Yoda, Anakin / Vader, Palpatine, R2, Threepio and even Bail Organna were NEVER in any danger in any of the prequels.  Yet, Lucas did do something unexpected and different and provided a sense of a backstory to the story that he wanted to tell.  Years later and especially compared to the sequels, the prequels have aged a little better, especially Sith.

Sequels are an open road... However, I do agree that Disney should have allowed Lucas to be on set and consult more than it is alluded he was.  Supposedly he stopped by to offer advice here and there.   

[Buzzetta]

3 minutes ago, comics4all said:

Are you trying to make me dislike you!

ASM 14 is on my grail list!!!!

I have a copy of  IH 181, but it is raw & not a 9.0! If pressed it might get a 6.5/7.0 

 

Go to my registry if you want to curse the hoard.  Somehow I wound up with doubles of Superman 3, 15, and 32. 

[mattn792]

29 minutes ago, comics4all said:

I've been avoiding them too

I have seen the trailers & they showed a few things they shouldn't have IMO! 

So what are you saying ? Ep 9 will be worse than Ep 8?  

As am I, but the trailers seem to be pointing to another VII'ing.  I've said several times before I give VII a pass because it made the franchise fun again, but the trailers so far are making IX look like just a jumble of highlights borrowed from III, V, and VI.  

The truly sad part about VIII is that the overall premise of the movie did have the potential to be a great ORIGINAL entry in the Star Wars saga, but the execution ended up being abysmal.  That's why my main fear is that JJ will "safe" it up once more and give the audience another rehash.

[Comics4All]

3 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Go to my registry if you want to curse the hoard.  Somehow I wound up with doubles of Superman 3, 15, and 32. 

Well you have great taste in comics, not so much in movies!

 

[Comics4All]

1 minute ago, mattn792 said:

As am I, but the trailers seem to be pointing to another VII'ing.  I've said several times before I give VII a pass because it made the franchise fun again, but the trailers so far are making IX look like just a jumble of highlights borrowed from III, V, and VI.  

The truly sad part about VIII is that the overall premise of the movie did have the potential to be a great ORIGINAL entry in the Star Wars saga, but the execution ended up being abysmal.  That's why my main fear is that JJ will "safe" it up once more and give the audience another rehash.

What he said.

[fantastic_four]

4 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

However, I do agree that Disney should have allowed Lucas to be on set and consult more than it is alluded he was.

It's not a question of him being allowed--he just hasn't wanted to work on Star Wars stories for over a decade.  He said that when he sold it to Disney, that it was finally time to let someone else take it over since he couldn't find it in himself to continue the story.  He said that after he finished Revenge of the Sith, too, that he probably wouldn't do Episodes VII and up.  I bet Iger would LOVE for Lucas to be the keeper of Star Wars lore for Disney if he wanted to do that, but everything I've seen from him tells me he doesn't.

I doubt it would work out anyway given his ego.  The reason he directed the prequels is that he just didn't trust anyone else to do it but him.  He regretted not directing Empire and Return of the Jedi, and the directors of those films were to varying extents sick of the control he exerted over their decision-making.  He's got very specific ideas about how things should work, and if you disagree with him he's notoriously pig-headed.  The entire reason there was a 20 year gap in Indiana Jones stories after Last Crusade in 1989 is because Lucas wanted to do that dumb crystal skull story, but Spielberg and Harrison Ford HATED it.  Fifteen years later it was clear Lucas just wasn't going to give it up, so they finally relented and did his story.

So while I love Lucas, and I liked the prequels myself despite all the problems with them, I don't think he's capable of the kind of light touch on directors that Kevin Feige has had with Marvel.  He's quite limited when it comes to collaborating with other creators.

[zhamlau]

4 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

This thread should be re-named to "The Irvin Kershner Richard Marquand George Lucas J.J. Abrams Rian Johnson ruined my childhood thread".

Only if you believe millions of fans are upset at Irving Kershner for ruining Star Wars. I think it’s mostly just Rian with a dash of JJ’s boring predictable placeholder storytelling.

Edited November 4, 2019 by zhamlau

[Buzzetta]

5 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

You think people didn't see Solo because Ford didn't star in it? I haven't heard that from a single person before right now. All I heard was - "I'm not paying to see another Star Wars movie after TLJ" and "dead character - who cares?"

I think expecting escapism from the SJW/PC concepts of the real world is fair from moviegoers. I don't think it has anything to do with "comfort" for most people. I, personally, dislike Captain Marvel because it's a mediocre film. I actually feared that it would pander too much to real-world politics (because of the trailers). It thankfully didn't (too much). The Last Jedi does things that don't make contextual sense. The reason? Well, if I go on I'll get some warning points, so let's just leave it at that. My, and most/all people I know, are only motivated to criticize TLJ for how bad it is as a Star Wars movie. I've heard it's allegedly a "good movie" if you don't consider its existence within the franchise. Outside of that, other connotations simply add more to the pile. The lack of escapism is tertiary in nature to how bad the characters and story are.

Your final point is exactly right. There are usually fanboys and fangirls in droves who speak up for their fandom, though. CM itself, as a new character within a franchise, receives more defense than TLJ (based on most populated social media and articles). I think that also says something as a storied franchise vs a new character.

Never addressed this.   Sorry. 

"You think people didn't see Solo because Ford didn't star in it? I haven't heard that from a single person before right now."

I think after we realized that there is a 14 year age difference between the two of us that you might see that there is a lot of truth to my statement... but... in my age group.  To my generation, Ford is Solo.  So I heard it from quite a few people that they had no interest in seeing anyone else play Han Solo other than Harrison Ford.   It might be a generational thing though. 

"I think expecting escapism from the SJW/PC concepts of the real world is fair from moviegoers."

Groan.  Your Anti SJW/PC crusade has always been laughable at best but mind numbing at worst.  Most of that is Hollywood finally recognizing that certain groups of people have not been included in the storymaking process and perhaps it is time to rectify that.  Remember there was a time that people were screaming out about being forced to see African Americans on the silver screen because they didn't want that forced down their throat.  Remember that people said that they did not want to see LGBTQ representation on screen because they didn't want forced down their throat.  Well, these people exist and perhaps they should be a part of the story, especially in the Star Wars universe.  You mean to tell me that in the entirety of the Star Wars universe there were only three POC in the original trilogy with them only in the last two movies but not the first?  That is laughable.  I am glad that things are changing.  One of the greatest things I ever heard was an African American boy being excited by Miles Morales because it meant that he too could feel like he could be under the mask.   Things are changing... and mostly for the better. 

[Buzzetta]

34 minutes ago, fantastic_four said:

It's not a question of him being allowed--he just hasn't wanted to work on Star Wars stories for over a decade.  He said that when he sold it to Disney, that it was finally time to let someone else take it over since he couldn't find it in himself to continue the story.  He said that after he finished Revenge of the Sith, too, that he probably wouldn't do Episodes VII and up.  I bet Iger would LOVE for Lucas to be the keeper of Star Wars lore for Disney if he wanted to do that, but everything I've seen from him tells me he doesn't.

I doubt it would work out anyway given his ego.  The reason he directed the prequels is that he just didn't trust anyone else to do it but him.  He regretted not directing Empire and Return of the Jedi, and the directors of those films were to varying extents sick of the control he exerted over their decision-making.  He's got very specific ideas about how things should work, and if you disagree with him he's notoriously pig-headed.  The entire reason there was a 20 year gap in Indiana Jones stories after Last Crusade in 1989 is because Lucas wanted to do that dumb crystal skull story, but Spielberg and Harrison Ford HATED it.  Fifteen years later it was clear Lucas just wasn't going to give it up, so they finally relented and did his story.

So while I love Lucas, and I liked the prequels myself despite all the problems with them, I don't think he's capable of the kind of light touch on directors that Kevin Feige has had with Marvel.  He's quite limited when it comes to collaborating with other creators.

Iger's recent book revealed that he turned down Lucas' scripts and ideas.  Disney wanted control according to Disney.  Iger has admitted that the situation was not handled as well as it could have been. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, Buzzetta said:

Never addressed this.   Sorry. 

"You think people didn't see Solo because Ford didn't star in it? I haven't heard that from a single person before right now."

I think after we realized that there is a 14 year age difference between the two of us that you might see that there is a lot of truth to my statement... but... in my age group.  To my generation, Ford is Solo.  So I heard it from quite a few people that they had no interest in seeing anyone else play Han Solo other than Harrison Ford.   It might be a generational thing though. 

"I think expecting escapism from the SJW/PC concepts of the real world is fair from moviegoers."

Groan.  Your Anti SJW/PC crusade has always been laughable at best but mind numbing at worst.  Most of that is Hollywood finally recognizing that certain groups of people have not been included in the storymaking process and perhaps it is time to rectify that.  Remember there was a time that people were screaming out about being forced to see African Americans on the silver screen because they didn't want that forced down their throat.  Remember that people said that they did not want to see LGBTQ representation on screen because they didn't want forced down their throat.  Well, these people exist and perhaps they should be a part of the story, especially in the Star Wars universe.  You mean to tell me that in the entirety of the Star Wars universe there were only three POC in the original trilogy with them only in the last two movies but not the first?  That is laughable.  I am glad that things are changing.  One of the greatest things I ever heard was an African American boy being excited by Miles Morales because it meant that he too could feel like he could be under the mask.   Things are changing... and mostly for the better. 

Oh, I know this. My dad is, well, a decade older than you, but I'm in a business run/flooded by 40-55 year-olds (most of them into comic movies and sci-fi like Star Wars and Star Trek). I know he's Solo to you guys. I never heard anyone say they're not going because Ford didn't star in it, though. That's a new reason to me.

There's a massive difference between inclusion and exploiting. TLJ wasn't inclusive with good reason - it was exploitation for profit. Is there a logical reason that Purple Hair Lady was granted a sacrifice while Akbar was killed off-screen? Not that I can think of. Why Vice Principle Strong Woman instead of Leia?

I didn't bat an eye with Boyega as a new and main character. Why? Because his character, in TFA at least, was well-written. It has nothing to do with anti-inclusion, but rather, anti-exploitation. Big, massive, difference man.

[Buzzetta]

3 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

 

I didn't bat an eye with Boyega as a new and main character. Why? Because his character, in TFA at least, was well-written. It has nothing to do with anti-inclusion, but rather, anti-exploitation. Big, massive, difference man.

There are MANY people that spoke out at Boyega being featured as a main character.  Comments ranged from disappointing to sickening at how disgusting people can still be.  Their posts are STILL available to see on the internet. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Buzzetta

[Mr Sneeze]

4 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

4 hours ago, Mr Sneeze said:

Two good posts here...

I have to admit, I wanted better then for Luke to be a lost soul.

Sometimes though, that is all we had.  

If anything I liked how both Han AND Luke lost their way but both redeemed themselves in the end.   I don't know how old @theCapraAegagrus or the rest of you are, but at 44 I do think of certain life choices that I have made and wonder if it is worth.  I work in a career path where the majority of us in my specific location are terribly unhappy and cannot wait to get out.  I personally get Luke.  Sadly, I know a lot more TLJ Lukes than I know ANH Lukes. 

I liked how RJ portrayed this.  Maybe I saw what he was trying to do by making the audience identify and relate with the characters in that heroes can become broken and then redeem themselves.  I know of a couple of people that hated TLJ because they did not like the aspect of Luke losing his faith.  One such person was the cop that lost his marriage over the job.  TO ME... Johnson boiled the TLJ down to one thing, that no matter what the odds, no matter who has lost their faith, no matter how bad it gets, there is always hope.  This is demonstrated with the end narration and the scene with force sensitive kid and the broom.  The overall movie was actually very good in my eyes. 

I agree that there were cringeworthy and hokey elements such as the Jedi Breast Pump.  But I loved the casino scene.  I loved Del Toro's character and how he shrugged off 'sides' of a conflict as the good guys are the good guys one day and the bad guys the next.  There is a lot of great stuff in TLJ for me and the more we talk, maybe I can offer more insight as to why I hold it in such high regard... at least from my perspective.

You make me want to see the movie again. I have avoided it to date because there was little point if I'm closed off to it but I am well aware of some of the triggers that took me out of the movie the first time.

Albums should always be listened to more than once and as often as you can stand before reining judgement. Most of my favorites were pretty flat first time around. I'm going to give it a go and see if I can keep an open mind.

[fantastic_four]

15 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Iger's recent book revealed that he turned down Lucas' scripts and ideas.

No doubt, but that's just Lucas throwing his two cents in.  They'd need more work from him than a few ideas, they'd need him to be an actual producer.

But like I said, if they tried it I doubt it would work since he doesn't play well with others.

Edited November 4, 2019 by fantastic_four

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, Buzzetta said:

There are MANY people that spoke out at Boyega being featured as a main character.  Comments ranged from disappointing to sickening at how disgusting people can still be.  There posts are STILL available to see on the internet. 

Well, that's not me. A well-written character of any "minority" or whatever label is A-okay to me as long as they're well-written. I prefer not to get excited, or bothered, by those kinda things. I just don't like when they focus on some sort of uncontrollable characteristic to force a moment. I thought TLJ did it way too much. Especially for a movie that takes place a long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away...

[Buzzetta]

I am in a meeting right now for team building playing 'human bingo.'

If I do not respond it is because I slit my wrists to make a point. 

[Mr Sneeze]

Just now, fantastic_four said:

9 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

Iger's recent book revealed that he turned down Lucas' scripts and ideas.

No doubt, but that's just Lucas throwing his two cents in.  They'd need more work from him than a few ideas, they'd need him to be an actual producer or screenwriter.

But like I said, if they tried it I doubt it would work since he doesn't play well with others.

Without knowing much of the history, I got the feeling that Disney wanted to pander to all the haters of the prequels. Maybe not overtly but the subtext was there and resulted in the irony of Star Wars being tarnished by association with it's creator. In the beginning, it seemed like the mouse wanted nothing to do with him.

[fantastic_four]

2 minutes ago, Mr Sneeze said:

In the beginning, it seemed like the mouse wanted nothing to do with him.

What makes you say that?  For him to be the keeper of the Star Wars lore he'd have to be into it, and he clearly wasn't when he owned his company himself.  I don't see why he'd suddenly be inspired to continue the series after selling it to Disney.

[Buzzetta]

On a side note they are talking about empathy in regards to human tragedy.  I reminded her that we are sitting here in Brooklyn, New York,  If someone kills themselves by jumping in front of the L train everyone is not going to feel compassion but anger that the person has made everyone late to work. 

For human bingo it would have been more entertaining to see who was involved in various crimes, or unscrupulous acts.  We are having a good laugh at least. 

[Comicopolis]

8 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I am in a meeting right now for team building playing 'human bingo.'

If I do not respond it is because I slit my wrists to make a point. 

Don't do it. Your posts in this thread the last few days are the best things I've read on these boards in years.