STAR WARS : Episode IX December 20, 2019 6 6

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, Rip said:

That says April 26th. Is there something I'm missing?

You mean other than there are over 623K ratings but only 8.4K ratings with dates because they actually left a narrative?

[Bosco685]

This is some of what amazes me.

There are sites already calling this a done deal for the weekend when we have all of Saturday evening and Sunday where a massive audience ramp-up could occur. Especially when it comes to Star Wars. We could see a bump.

[Rip]

6 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

You mean other than there are over 623K ratings but only 8.4K ratings with dates because they actually left a narrative?

First I thought you said you clearly showed you a snapshot in advance of a film's release date? Can you show this?

Second fair enough on every narrative vote. but how does this change anything because you still have the same problems with everything

Here is the list below:

Thought IMDB held the votes for months, and you thought 1917 was a good example but didn't realize they had showings and opened the voting

Tried it with Little Women but didn't realize they had showings and opened the voting

Then tried it with WW1984 trending but didn't realize that had nothing to do with voting. Didn't realize you can't vote for WW1984.

Didn't realize they had dates next to every vote. (Not every vote only narrative votes)

Then tried Endgame but didn't realize they held voting for days after the opening

Edited December 21, 2019 by Rip

[Bosco685]

Just now, Rip said:

First I thought you said you clearly showed you a snapshot where in advance of a film's release date? Can you show this?

Second fair enough on every narrative vote. but how does this change anything because you still have the same problem. 

I actually have no problems. I'm good. You seem to be fixated on wanting to be concerned with defending early reviews of this Star Wars film, but then agreed the stats didn't look consistent with other site ratings.

So how about we enjoy the holidays without the angst, and get back to watching how this film does?

[Rip]

Hey I've got nothing against you.

Sometimes I really enjoy what you say. Quite often I'm on your side.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Rip

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, Rip said:

First I thought you said you clearly showed you a snapshot in advance of a film's release date? Can you show this?

Second fair enough on every narrative vote. but how does this change anything because you still have the same problems with everything

Here is the list below:

Thought IMDB held the votes for months, and you thought 1917 was a good example but didn't realize they had showings and opened the voting

Tried it with Little Women but didn't realize they had showings and opened the voting

Then tried it with WW1984 trending but didn't realize that had nothing to do with voting. Didn't realize you can't vote for WW1984.

Didn't realize they had dates next to every vote. (Not every vote only narrative votes)

Then tried Endgame but didn't realize they held voting for days after the opening

Can you stop yourself? You were wrong on the early Star Wars stats as I showed when compared to other stats. Then you were wrong IMDb dates every rating for every user. Let it go. 

[I like pie]

5 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

This is some of what amazes me.

There are sites already calling this a done deal for the weekend when we have all of Saturday evening and Sunday where a massive audience ramp-up could occur. Especially when it comes to Star Wars. We could see a bump.

I think good word of mouth will help but we'll see.  The last film will keep many away until they know it's not another total mess.

[Rip]

12 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Sorry, let's stick to how much of an IMDb expert you are, since that was critical to you.

Every vote? You sure about that? 

 

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

Can you stop yourself? You were wrong on the early Star Wars stats as I showed when compared to other stats. Then you were wrong IMDb dates every rating for every user. Let it go. 

About what. I'm the one that brought up IMDB. Yes I was 100% wrong on the date rating/narrative. Not something I have a problem with saying

[Bosco685]

Just now, Rip said:

Hey I've got nothing against you.

Sometimes I really enjoy what you say. Quite often I'm on your site.

Then other than disagreeing on some details, we really have no issues here.

1) There appears to possibly be some form of tampering going on with the RT Audience rating, either due to the studio countering the mixed critic reviews or hardcore fans responding to it

2) We agree at a certain point IMDb opens up the ratings system so any user (not just confirmed critics are actual theater attendees) can post a rating

3) Endgame was used as an example where there was a massive response early on, of which we can only see .013% with dates when they posted a rating

4) Wonder Woman 84 I brought up as an example how IMDb posts film trending, which part of where they are getting the stats from is their users. How much of that influences the trending, heck if I know. I didn't feel like researching it.

But it is a good thing IMDb does post dates, as this is how some of the attacks were caught on there where the same review text and date appeared. Screen Rant even posted this to indicate there were people trolling films, and copying.pasting negative reviews.

We're good! 

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, I like pie said:

I think good word of mouth will help but we'll see.  The last film will keep many away until they know it's not another total mess.

I hear ya on the previous film possibly leaving people wary. But even a B+ Cinemascore could help move this up. But also agree anything can happen here.

I'm just thinking this is Star Wars. And the end of this run. People possibly want to see this on the big screen with the audience reaction and loud sounds to enhance the experience. It is part of the fun.

[Rip]

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

Then other than disagreeing on some details, we really have no issues here.

1) There appears to possibly be some form of tampering going on with the RT Audience rating, either due to the studio countering the mixed critic reviews or hardcore fans responding to it

Likely many more radical hardcore fans but the numbers don't seem to be higher than usual. That's why I'm not sure about massive tampering

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

2) We agree at a certain point IMDb opens up the ratings system so any user (not just confirmed critics are actual theater attendees) can post a rating

3) Endgame was used as an example where there was a massive response early on, of which we can only see .013% with dates when they posted a rating

4) Wonder Woman 84 I brought up as an example how IMDb posts film trending, which part of where they are getting the stats from is their users. How much of that influences the trending, heck if I know. I didn't feel like researching it.

But it is a good thing IMDb does post dates, as this is how some of the attacks were caught on there where the same review text and date appeared. Screen Rant even posted this to indicate there were people trolling films, and copying.pasting negative reviews.

We're good! 

Agree on 2.

Endgame they held votes until days after release which was very unusual and out of norm.

That's why there was a bottleneck of voting hitting.

[Bosco685]

8 minutes ago, Rip said:

Likely many more radical hardcore fans but the numbers don't seem to be higher than usual. That's why I'm not sure about massive tampering

Agree on 2.

Endgame they held votes until days after release which was very unusual and out of norm.

That's why there was a bottleneck of voting hitting.

I liked where Rotten Tomatoes pretended to be going (only verified movie-goers that could confirm seeing the film). But there are so many hurdles in the way of that approach to clean up Audience Ratings.

Although, if Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb were wise, they would utilize links to Fandago, Regal, AMC and other ticket sales outlets to aggregate reviews posted by ticket holders that purchased from their sites only. Now you eliminate the validation hurdle.

[Rip]

And again sticking to just Star Wars NO one could vote until earlier this week at IMDB.

We know this by numerous sources from the website vote dates to Blu-Ray forum where people were tracking it.

They even removed votes and stopped the ability to vote for a little while earlier this week because of spamming.

And this point, if voting just started on IMDB which we know was this week and the voting is at 73K then if RT only has now 18,253 at 86%

Then the idea of massive ballet stuffing at RT seems less likely.

Force Awakens  IMDB 807K votes RT 232,291 3.47X

Last Jedi IMDB 495K RT 215K (Very high likely stuffed) 2.3X 

Rise of Skywalker IMDB 73K RT 18K 4.05X a bit low due to extra days for voting on IMDB

Edited December 21, 2019 by Rip
typos

[Bosco685]

4 minutes ago, Rip said:

And again sticking to just Star Wars NO one could vote until earlier this week at IMDB.

We know this by numerous sources from the website vote dates to Blu-Ray forum where people were tracking it.

They even removed votes and stopped the ability to vote for a little while earlier this week because of spamming.

And this point, if voting just started on IMDB which we know was this week and the voting is at 73K then if RT only has now 18,253 at 86%

Then the idea of massive ballet stuffing and RT seems less likely.

Force Awakens  IMDB 807K votes RT 232,291 3.47X

Last Jedi IMDB 495K RT 215K (Very high likely stuffed) 2.3X 

Rise of Skywalker IMDB 73K RT 18K 4.05X a bit low due to extra days for voting on IMDB

Actually, you don't know when the full vote pool (73,383) landed as only 4.2% of those that posted a rating posted a review (3,072).

So not sure how this would help lead to the assumption no 'ballet stufing' occurs by either studios or hardcore fans (negative or positive). 

[Rip]

7 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

Actually, you don't know when the full vote pool (73,383) landed as only 4.2% of those that posted a rating posted a review (3,072).

 

Thats moot.

As I stated before you couldn't vote until this week. Many checked and tried, they even stopped the voting an pulled the votes earlier this week as I stated before. The dates of the reviews confirm this. They don't hold back the narrative votes. They hold everything or not.

Unless you are trying to say they somehow allowed people without narratives to vote which is not true and even then people would have seen that.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Rip

[Bosco685]

Just now, Rip said:

Thats moot.

As I stated before you couldn't vote until this week. Many checked and tried, they even stopped the voting an pulled the votes earlier this week as I stated before. The dates of the reviews confirm this. They don't hold back the narrative votes. They hold everything or not.

Unless you are trying to say they somehow allowed people without narratives to vote which is not true and even then people would have seen that.

Have anything from IMDb that states they held back voting? 

[Rip]

"So not sure how this would help lead to the assumption no 'ballet stufing' occurs by either studios or hardcore fans (negative or positive)."

Then why doesn't it seem out of the norm.

[Bosco685]

Wow! Speaking of IMDb reviews, I was looking at someone that gate Rise of the Skywalker a 1.0/10 rating to understand what their issue was. Well, they certainly shared their opinions.

SPOILERS WARNING 

Spoiler

1/10 (Movie by committee) by kaspergordon17 December 2019

Quote

This isn't George Lucas vision of Star Wars. Neither is it some talented and visionary directors vision of Star Wars. This isn't even a high budgeted and dedicated fan movie. This is basically just a movie made by a committee - a movie made by a corporation, trying to pander and please as many demographics as possible. Like; we need to have 50% men and 50% women in the movie - we need to have 25% Asians, 25% Africans, 25% Hispanics and 25% Caucasians (who of course mostly should be evil). There needs to be 27% action, 23% humor, 15% suspense, 18% romance, 19% nostalgia etc. We need to get the old fans back, and we need to lure new and young ones in. We need to introduce a certain amount of new cute and cool creatures, characters, weapons and vehicles that can be sold as toys and put on merchandise.

That's how I felt when I saw it. Like I was watching the worlds longest and most expensive calculated demographic pander. Not that J. J. Abrams is the most original, deep or visionary director to begin with, he's all ways been a corporate tool, most of his movies basically just feel like empty copy-pasted franchise-related fluff, but with this one, it really felt like he also had a bunch of corporate overlords telling him what to do, how many boxes he had to check and how many demographics he had to please while making the movie.

When I heard there was going to be a new trilogy, I was so exited to see my old childhood heroes again. But these movies quickly turned out not to really be about Luke, Han, Leia or the others, they were quickly pushed in the background, their characters changed to fit the narrative, before they were killed one off one by one right from the first movie. We never even got to see them reunited alive on the screen together again, and we were instead told to focus on the the new cast from Captain Planet and the Planeteers.

And the new band of heroes just doesn't have the same charm, personalities or chemistry together (actually this is the first movie in the new trilogy, where they do stuff together). They more feel like they have been cast for a United Colors of Benetton commercial, on behalf of their skins-color and sex, more than what type of character and personality they had to portray - they are all just so empty, like cardboard-cutouts with calculated screen-time and one-dimensional personalities. Most of them, hardly even have an arc or any real character-development over the course of 3 movies.

And the same goes for the new movie itself. The action is bland, nothing we haven't seen a 100 times before. Often way better and more impressive in other modern movies. Sure it's state of the art, but some of the CGI actually looks rather rushed and unfinished, considering the budget behind this movie, while at other times, there's just too much going on at the screen at once, for you to get involved, focus or care. And the action often doesn't serve a purpose to the story - it's just more timely inserted space-battles, chase-scenes and sci-fi fights. Mostly just overblown shiny CGI stuff, with a few practical puppets, sets and costumes thrown in to pander to the old fans.

The humor feel as forced and artificial as in the first two new movies, more like the humor you would see in something like Guardians of the Galaxy or Thor Ragnarok, than in Star Wars. Sure the original Star Wars movies also had some humor, but in those movies, it felt natural, like when normal people in the real world make jokes and snappy remarks among each other, or are thrown into unexpected situations together. Not these wink-wink-moments, slapstick humor and juvenile self aware meme-jokes. At times I almost expected Rey to just start using her unignited lightsaber as a microphone and start to rap. What's worse, is that this movie also tries to be dark at the same time, but this isn't Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Sith, those movies really were dark chapters in the Star Wars saga, with hardly any humor in them, but in The Rise of Skywalker, it just makes the movie feel even more like a tonal mess, since the movie also tries to be funny, upbeat and happy at the same, making both the humor, the drama and the darker elements feel even more forced and out of place.

Without going into spoiler territory, I can tell you this; if you felt that The Force Awakens and Especially The Last Jedi did more damage to the existing Star Wars characters and lore, more than it helped expand it, then you will hate this movie. Not that there's really much to spoil anyway - the shallow Rey and her generic friends, just follow the markings of some convenient new space dagger, which takes them across a bunch of random locations, that leads to some pointless exposition and bland action sequences. Most of these sequences, feel like they could have been put in at any random order, like they were planed and filmed before the story, while most of the story just feel like an excuse to go to try and fill out two hours of more Star Wars - not like this epic, fulfilling and long awaited conclusion to some of the the most important movies in modern pop culture. Or to quote the actor of C3PO Antonio Daniels; "We've waited 40 years for THIS?" Basically, this movie and the new trilogy as a whole, just ruin more for the original saga, than it expands or concludes.

And the way they bring back Emperor Palatine is beyond stupid, not to mention his motives and plans, that hardly makes any logical sense. Sure, it's hreat to see Ian McDiarmid back as Palpatine, though it's basically only like an expanded cameo - but by bringing him back, this movie basically destroys the whole overarching plot of the first 6 movies - with Anakin being the chosen one, fulfilling the prophecy of bringing balance to the force, by helping Palpatine whipping out the Jedi, and then destroying Palpatine and his empire. Bringing Back Palpatine felt more like a desperate act from Disney and the producers, to have a major beloved villain back and lure in more old fans, but when they did so, they basically made the plot and the epic story of all the first 6 movies pointless, all 9 movies are basically just a weird mess now story-wise.

Actually most of this movie, feels like a jumbled mess, that seem to have gone through countless -script-changes, multiple edits and re-shoots. It almost felt like they came up with most of it, as they went along. Often it seems like entire scenes are missing, and we are left without crucial information and explanation. So many questions sat up in both episode VII and VIII are still left unanswered, while this movie still creates more questions and leaves you scratching your head. While also completely disregarding or changing a lot of the lore and "rules" of the Star Wars universe - the force and its powers seem to be more or less random now, and its wielders can more or less do anything when it fits the plot. Supposedly Disney also went ahead and started to produce these films, before they even had an entire story planed out for all 3 movies, even though George Lucas all ready had a scripted idea for a new trilogy, that they discarded, to instead go along with something more "safe", that they hadn't even planned out first. If you want to create a trilogy of movies, perhaps, you should have an overall story you wish to tell, before you wish to make a trilogy. Instead of making it up as you go along from movie to movie - and in this episodes case, scene to scene. Just an idea...

Though I guess calling your own long time fans out as trolls, Russian bots, racists, homophobes, misogynists and basement dwelling man-babies, just because they voice their disappointment and general critique towards the movies, isn't the best way to strengthen your brand either...

So even if you're a huge Star Wars fan, should go and support this movie? The short answer is no. This is movie-making without soul, without love, and without the desire to tell a story. Without passion. This is corporate entertainment at its worst. Everything seems calculated. This is only made to sell more plastic and to desperately still keep a major franchise relevant, even though it is clearly loosing its momentum.

Maybe we did finally get to see what happened after Return of the Jedi, but the way this trilogy ended out, I would actually have preferred, that they never made these movies - since they just make all the all the battles and sacrifices from the first 6 movies feel pointless now. If you really are a fan of Star Wars, or movies as an art-form in general, then you shouldn't support this shallow nothingness with your money. To quote something Mark Hamil said about it on Twitter; "I would wait till it's out on cable."

 

[Bosco685]

4 minutes ago, Rip said:

"So not sure how this would help lead to the assumption no 'ballet stufing' occurs by either studios or hardcore fans (negative or positive)."

Then why doesn't it seem out of the norm.

I think I shared so much data repeatedly, if you missed it I am not sure what else to share with you. Other than going on a road trip and tracking down who may have 'stacked the ballets'.

 

[Rip]

Like I said you could start voting earlier this week then they stopped it.

 

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=319247&page=275

 

Originally Posted by Brightstar  IMDB are giving it 6/10

It was already full of 1's and 10's yesterday before the film even premiered and it was around 7.1/10. People are now flooding it with even more 1's and 10's, and I guarantee you most of the people who are voting on it haven't even seen it.

But hey, that's where the Internet is these days.

EDIT: good, it actually looks like they've removed voting from the film.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Rip