Most common GA books 0

[rjpb]

3 hours ago, the blob said:

Why does True Life Secrets 23 seem to sell for a premium when it was a warehouse find? Yes, it's a suggestive cover, but not that mind blowing...

It doesn't always sell for a premium, and when it does it may be less than it would if it were less common. It is a favorite cover, and in some strange respect, that it is fairly common may have raised awareness of it and made it more sought after. Judging from recent ebay sales it seems to have risen in value along with a lot of other romance books with suggestive or interesting covers, and there are less copies available than with Thing #16 or Crime and Justice #20, so it appears the marketplace can absorb what's out there. 

Even these more common GA books aren't nearly as available as most SA books, and some pretty minor SA keys can go for a premium if the interest starts to gain on them. 

 

[october]

Good point about the relative scarcity between "common" golden age issues and silver/bronze keys. 

I've also noticed Ghost Rider 1 bringing better money now than 3-6 years ago. As the market absorbs warehouse books, prices rise as 1) copies gradually disappear into collections and 2) the market begins to collectively forget that the issue was readily available at a point in the past. 

[ft88]

I thought the True Life Secrets 23 lots all had condition issues like moisture or rusty staples.  So maybe mid grade on up are still tough or at least tougher.

Geppi bought the Harve warehouse/file copies.  He used those sales to fund his collector buying habit from HA and get out of bankruptcy.  There was a 10 year sales time period to sell of the Harvey's.  There were 500,000 total comics, though I don't know the breakout.

[LearnedHand]

8 hours ago, the blob said:

 

During WW II there were srap metal and paper recycling drives as manpower needed to be diverted to war indusries and away from cutting down trees to make paper. Do a google search and dozens of articles will pop up. It was your patriotic duty to recycle that superman 1 and action 1. sure, some america haters kept their comics and I suspect a larger numbers of funny animal/cartoon books survived because young kids could read them over and over and nobody was buying kids books. But yeah, no i don't think 5-10% exist more than 70 years later. Ask an old timer who has been collecting/dealing since the late 60s/early 70s how frequently they would see these early keys and that probably answers the question. I am sure there are way more than 136 copies, but not tens of thousands.

Funny you should say this - I've been going to NYC shows since the 1970s and I can tell you that Action #1 was seldom seen, but you'd see Superman #1 (and Cap #1).  And yes, paper drives certainly gobbled up comic books.  But let's challenge these points a little.  If we use your method and asked "old timers" back in say 1965 how many Action #1s they thought existed, I suspect a large majority would have said like 10 -20 copies, as it was rarely seen in the marketplace.  Today, there are like 68 copies that CGC alone has seen.  Not crazy common, but certainly not as rare as what people perceived based on what was available in the marketplace.  In terms of the paper drives: people often use this to argue the scarcity of a given book, yet there are very many GA books of the same vintage as Superman #1 that are common today despite those same paper drives - books that were probably not nearly as dear to the owners as say a Superman #1.  Bat #1 came out in 1940 and is considered common - I think Leonard Brown owned 50 copies himself at one point.  But, this is all anecdotal and wasn't at all my point - frankly, I don't know or particularly care to speculate over how many copies of any given book exist.  Point was that I think the labels "scarce" or "common" are relative and a perception based largely on the CGC census and availability in the market place.  Put it this way, even a book with say 1,000 existing copies sitting in collections for the past 30 years isn't necessarily "common" if it rarely turns up for sale.       

 

 

      

[the blob]

2 hours ago, LearnedHand said:

Funny you should say this - I've been going to NYC shows since the 1970s and I can tell you that Action #1 was seldom seen, but you'd see Superman #1 (and Cap #1).  And yes, paper drives certainly gobbled up comic books.  But let's challenge these points a little.  If we use your method and asked "old timers" back in say 1965 how many Action #1s they thought existed, I suspect a large majority would have said like 10 -20 copies, as it was rarely seen in the marketplace.  Today, there are like 68 copies that CGC alone has seen.  Not crazy common, but certainly not as rare as what people perceived based on what was available in the marketplace.  In terms of the paper drives: people often use this to argue the scarcity of a given book, yet there are very many GA books of the same vintage as Superman #1 that are common today despite those same paper drives - books that were probably not nearly as dear to the owners as say a Superman #1.  Bat #1 came out in 1940 and is considered common - I think Leonard Brown owned 50 copies himself at one point.  But, this is all anecdotal and wasn't at all my point - frankly, I don't know or particularly care to speculate over how many copies of any given book exist.  Point was that I think the labels "scarce" or "common" are relative and a perception based largely on the CGC census and availability in the market place.  Put it this way, even a book with say 1,000 existing copies sitting in collections for the past 30 years isn't necessarily "common" if it rarely turns up for sale.       

 

 

      

Yes, i would see superman 1 at shows in nyc since i was going in the 70s, but not like spiderman 1 where a dealer might have 15 copies. I was addressing the 50,000 comment. Are there 1,000 copies? Maybe. The price isn't driven by scarcity per se. There are plenty of 1939-41 comics that are $100 or less that are no less rare. I had a heck pf a time selling a crackajack funnies 1 a while back and that came out around when action 1 did.

[Brian48]

Don't know if it's just common or no one wants it, but World's Finest #2 is usually easy to find and relatively cheap (comparatively speaking when it comes to GA).

[Sqeggs]

On 1/24/2018 at 9:57 AM, october said:

On 1/23/2018 at 9:27 PM, LearnedHand said:

  I've had the "Superman #1 discussion" with many people over the years, as many think this book is scarce.  With over one million copies printed, it's reasonable to assume that 10% or even 5% still exist. 

I don't think this is a reasonable assumption. That would mean a minimum of 50,000 surviving copies, with an upside of 100,000+. 

There are currently 136 copies on the census in any grade, which means for every graded copy there are 500 or more raw copies sitting unknown in collections. That makes no sense given the time CGC has been open, the price that issue commands, and how infrequently raw copies hit the marketplace. There aren't 50,000 collectors sitting on copies of this book and ignoring the fact that it could bring tens of thousands of dollars if sold. 

Yeah, I agree with this.  It's hard to imagine there are all that many older collectors out there that couldn't use the dough that selling a Superman 1 in practically any condition would bring.  Are there some older collectors who would rather hold on to their raw copies than grade and sell them?  Undoubtedly.  Are there more than (at the very most) a few hundred? I'm skeptical.

[Sqeggs]

14 hours ago, ft88 said:

I thought the True Life Secrets 23 lots all had condition issues like moisture or rusty staples.  So maybe mid grade on up are still tough or at least tougher.

Geppi bought the Harve warehouse/file copies.  He used those sales to fund his collector buying habit from HA and get out of bankruptcy.  There was a 10 year sales time period to sell of the Harvey's.  There were 500,000 total comics, though I don't know the breakout.

CGC should never have labeled those books as "file copies."  I think that term should have been reserved for books that were actually kept as back copies or reference copies in a publisher's offices.  It shouldn't have been used for warehouse finds. 

[fishbone]

On ‎23‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 12:17 PM, nearmint said:

Good idea for a thread.

It was until Detective #78 and high grade Detective #111's started to be discussed ........   ........................and I thought I had hit the jackpot with my 9.2 #111 I had graded a few months ago! 

          oh well, still love them both!

Edited January 25, 2018 by fishbone

[PovertyRow]

4 hours ago, szavisca said:

6 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

CGC should never have labeled those books as "file copies."  I think that term should have been reserved for books that were actually kept as back copies or reference copies in a publisher's offices.  It shouldn't have been used for warehouse finds. 

“Warehouse Copy” would have been more accurate but I’m glad they at least called it something rather than no designation.  As is, at least it gives the indication that several well preserved relatively high grade copies exist for whatever particular book.

I agree 100%. I've been saying this exact thing for years...call it a "Warehouse Copy" and reserve "File Copy' for in-house reference books!

[path4play]

8 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Yeah, I agree with this.  It's hard to imagine there are all that many older collectors out there that couldn't use the dough that selling a Superman 1 in practically any condition would bring.  Are there some older collectors who would rather hold on to their raw copies than grade and sell them?  Undoubtedly.  Are there more than (at the very most) a few hundred? I'm skeptical.

The survival rate of comics from the 1938-1940's time frame is more like 0.1% - one tenth of a percent.  It probably gets better/higher through time but I don't think any Golden Age books would survive up to a 10% of circulation level.  

[OtherEric]

1 hour ago, path4play said:

The survival rate of comics from the 1938-1940's time frame is more like 0.1% - one tenth of a percent.  It probably gets better/higher through time but I don't think any Golden Age books would survive up to a 10% of circulation level.  

Some of the giveaways that were found in bulk might qualify-  Major Inapak and the Puffed Wheat giveaways.  Not sure if those had original print runs bigger or smaller than the average newsstand book

[Robot Man]

You can add the anti drug giveaway "Trapped" to that list. I paid through the nose for a copy when I saw it only to find out that there were literally hundreds of them. A dealer I won't name screwed me hard on it. Needless to say, I will NEVER buy a thing from him again. Great book none the less.

[Sqeggs]

12 hours ago, Robot Man said:

You can add the anti drug giveaway "Trapped" to that list. I paid through the nose for a copy when I saw it only to find out that there were literally hundreds of them. A dealer I won't name screwed me hard on it. Needless to say, I will NEVER buy a thing from him again. Great book none the less.

I had a similar experience with this book.  When this copy popped up, I thought "Whoa! A 9.8 copy of a GA promo I've never seen." Of course, where there's one high-grade copy of a promo, there's almost certain to be quite a few more copies.  There are now six 9.8s and seven 9.6s on the census.  I'm pretty sure there are more out there that haven't been slabbed. Probably worth a quarter of what I paid.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Sqeggs

[originalisbest]

It happens now and again (find a minty looking copy of a given book, then find out it was from a large stack of the same issue only recently uncovered.) In some cases that torpedos the value, in others, the demand is still sufficient to meet and exceed the supply (Chamber of Chills 19, or a Black Cat Mystery 50.) The Web of Mystery #27 is the latest book to have quite a few uncirculated copies pop up, and even though many of them suffer storage damage, I can probably get one fairly cheap and be picky about it (happens to be a PCH book I didn't have yet.) The availability is why I haven't yet picked up a THING! #16 -- there'll always be something out there of it.

[porcupine48]

This one seems fairly common 

[jhm]

On 1/23/2018 at 9:10 PM, rjpb said:

I can't believe I forgot about Great Comics - this was plentiful back in the 90s, it's availability obviously keeping the price down, as it has a fantastic Cole cover that would normally warrant a premium.

There are a ton of "variants" one Great Comics #1 one too. The census shows many from Novak, but only 2 are marked with Jubilee Publications as the publisher. I don't have a raw copy of the Jubilee version, so I can't see inside. But the cover has a very minor difference - The Novak version has "LNC" in the upper left corner on the cover. The Jubilee version has "SND" near the bottom left of the G (from Great) in vertical letters.

CGC also lists a "Jubilee" variant within the Novak publisher. Text is simply overprinted in indicia (still has LNC on cover, not SND). From my research, the Jubilee Publications version is quite rare, oddly enough.

I'd personally love to know more if any historians out there are familiar.

Edited January 28, 2018 by jhm
missing info

[rjpb]

On 1/25/2018 at 8:35 PM, Robot Man said:

You can add the anti drug giveaway "Trapped" to that list. I paid through the nose for a copy when I saw it only to find out that there were literally hundreds of them. A dealer I won't name screwed me hard on it. Needless to say, I will NEVER buy a thing from him again. Great book none the less.

Giveaways can be quite dangerous in that way, they seem to pop up in multiples fairly frequently, which always tended to make me leery of paying too much.  I'm guessing this was a while back, before knowledge of the Harvey file copies was widespread. One wonders how many copies of some formerly scarce Catechetical Guild giveaways were in the Philip Levine collection. For a while there it looked like Heritage was going to keep on offering copies of Labor is A Partner every month.

How Stalin Hopes We Will Destroy America is another popular giveaway which always seems available in high grade.

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by rjpb

[Sqeggs]

6 hours ago, rjpb said:

Giveaways can be quite dangerous in that way, they seem to pop up in multiples fairly frequently, which always tended to make me leery of paying too much.  I'm guessing this was a while back, before knowledge of the Harvey file copies was widespread. One wonders how many copies of some formerly scarce Catechetical Guild giveaways were in the Philip Levine collection. For a while there it looked like Heritage was going to keep on offering copies of Labor is A Partner every month.

How Stalin Hopes We Will Destroy America is another popular giveaway which always seems available in high grade.

 

Very true.  I finally got around to reading it a little while ago and it's an odd book.  Apparently Stalin was relying on us to destroy ourselves by increasing spending faster than we increased taxes.  More foolproof than nuking us, apparently.

[sacentaur]

Wonder Woman 25 seems to be everywhere.