Action Comics 1000 variants 1 1

[ExNihilo]

51 minutes ago, Wolverinex said:

I missed out on the 204 problems.   Why was it poorly received?  Because of the story or cover? 

In my opinion, the story.  The cover was fantastic.  A sort of yin/yang approach to the Batman 608 2nd print cover.  Both did a great job conveying the tones of the respective characters.  Perhaps, I need to re-read the Superman run, but overall, I remember being very disappointed in the story overall.

[fastballspecial]

3 hours ago, Wolverinex said:

4 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

Well that's not a terrible bet. Considering what others have paid especially.

I just have bad memories from Superman 204. It was going to be a smashing success with Jim Lee 
and the writer Azzerelo. It was very poorly received at the time.

 

 

I missed out on the 204 problems.   Why was it poorly received?  Because of the story or cover? 

The art and many of the covers were fantastic. The storyline was hard to follow and took awhile to get going. Now its praised
as a "break thru" in comics storytelling. Back then it sucked and took too long to get anywhere. It was panned terribly at the 
time.

It was so overhyped at the time they had nowhere to go but down. I didn't even finish the storyline I lost interest around 
the 4 issue. It had Zod at some point and a middle east storyline, but it just didn't grab me. I remember being on CBR
at the time and many just shaking their heads of it.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by fastballspecial

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

6 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

The art and many of the covers were fantastic. The storyline was hard to follow and took awhile to get going. Now its praised
as a "break thru" in comics storytelling. Back then it sucked and took too long to get anywhere. It was panned terribly at the 
time.

It was so overhyped at the time they had nowhere to go but down. I didn't even finish the storyline I lost interest around 
the 4 issue. It had Zod at some point and a middle east storyline, but it just didn't grab me. I remember being on CBR
at the time and many just shaking their heads of it.

 

 

I loved it.  I bought the entire run of "For Tomorrow" and got the retailer incentive 9.8 copy of #204.

- Jim Lee's art was fantastic

- Brian Azzarello's story telling was complex and thought provoking (man without guns still throws rocks)

- Father Leone's part of the story was tragic

- Superman's interaction with the individual members of the JL were some of the best writing in comics

It's not a story for everybody and how he save's the millions of people that "vanished" is difficult to follow.  But not all comic stories should just be about good guy vs bad guy.

 

***One negative...Equus was a poorly conceived villain/character.  But he wasn't the focus of the story so it didn't ruin it.

Edited May 14, 2018 by AnthonyTheAbyss
Sentence errors

[hipywolf]

On 5/12/2018 at 10:03 PM, fastballspecial said:

Bendis says a lot of things. 

You are betting on a villain in a Superman book that nobody buys anymore? You paid handsomely for it and then sent it in to be slabbed. You are hoping 
here that CGC recognizes an error as well. My point is there is a lot of betting and a lot of hope here with a larger amount of money gambled.

I hope you are right I'd like to see Superman get more press and a villain of his even more. I like Jim Lee I really do, but some of us remember
Superman 204 and the result of it.

Its not a bet I would take though based on previous sales of Superman he hasn't been relevant in a long time.

 

If " CGC recognizes an error as well." what does that mean?  My 2 copies don't have any of that damage.  

[williamblood]

2 hours ago, hipywolf said:

If " CGC recognizes an error as well." what does that mean?  My 2 copies don't have any of that damage.  

it means they wont deduct for the error, will not change yours grade

[hipywolf]

23 minutes ago, williamblood said:

it means they wont deduct for the error, will not change yours grade

so if they say it is an error then a damaged copy and my undamage copy could possibly grade the same.....that doesnt seem right

[1Cool]

32 minutes ago, hipywolf said:

so if they say it is an error then a damaged copy and my undamage copy could possibly grade the same.....that doesnt seem right

The only way CGC will not deduct the damage is if the damage is deemed a printing defect but in this case I think enough copies avoided damage that CGc will not consider it a printing defect but a packing/shipping damage.  but I've been wrong before

[williamblood]

1 hour ago, 1Cool said:

The only way CGC will not deduct the damage is if the damage is deemed a printing defect but in this case I think enough copies avoided damage that CGc will not consider it a printing defect but a packing/shipping damage.  but I've been wrong before

i heard that like 80-90 percent were damaged. almost all of the copies ive looked at on ebay has had it

[kHAoS]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:15 AM, 1Cool said:

Where else has this tactic been used?  To increase demand - definetely.  But even hot toys do not hold back supply to create a frenzy to then increase the price by 5x.  Apple doesn't hold back product to then increase the price 10x when the phone is in demand.  I really can't think of an instance where this done from the primary seller.

Off the top of my head, Nintendo definitely shorted or held back inventory of the Classic NES when it was first launched and that created a huge feeding frenzy during the holidays a few years back.  Companies like Apple don't necessarily mark-up the product, but the retail outlet that sells the item before it gets to the consumer can raise the price.  Every Honda Civic Type-R sold last year probably had a 2k-5k dealer mark-up, with the most outrageous one having a 20k mark-up (although I'm pretty sure no one was crazy enough to pay that price).  Back in the heyday of game system launches, it was impossible to purchase a Sega Dreamcast, PS2, or PSP without purchasing additional games or accessories and this applied to Best Buy, Gamestop, EB Games, Circuit City stores in my area.

Your Apple argument does not take into account that Apple is not marketing and selling a limited edition collectible and this happens to be a limited comic and the retail vendor is also a hobby store for most intents and purposes.  We don't know if Torpedo or Midtown intentionally held back stock to artificially raise prices, since that implies that both stores would almost be colluding to do this.  Given that both stores had to process hundreds of orders, there is a high probability that some orders got cancelled and they just sold the book at the current market price.

Let's put it this way, if your LCS had customers who had Teen Titans #12 in their pull-lists and a month later didn't pay for their books, would you fault the store for marking up the book, instead of selling it at cover price?

[1Cool]

10 minutes ago, kHAoS said:

Off the top of my head, Nintendo definitely shorted or held back inventory of the Classic NES when it was first launched and that created a huge feeding frenzy during the holidays a few years back.  Companies like Apple don't necessarily mark-up the product, but the retail outlet that sells the item before it gets to the consumer can raise the price.  Every Honda Civic Type-R sold last year probably had a 2k-5k dealer mark-up, with the most outrageous one having a 20k mark-up (although I'm pretty sure no one was crazy enough to pay that price).  Back in the heyday of game system launches, it was impossible to purchase a Sega Dreamcast, PS2, or PSP without purchasing additional games or accessories and this applied to Best Buy, Gamestop, EB Games, Circuit City stores in my area.

Your Apple argument does not take into account that Apple is not marketing and selling a limited edition collectible and this happens to be a limited comic and the retail vendor is also a hobby store for most intents and purposes.  We don't know if Torpedo or Midtown intentionally held back stock to artificially raise prices, since that implies that both stores would almost be colluding to do this.  Given that both stores had to process hundreds of orders, there is a high probability that some orders got cancelled and they just sold the book at the current market price.

Let's put it this way, if your LCS had customers who had Teen Titans #12 in their pull-lists and a month later didn't pay for their books, would you fault the store for marking up the book, instead of selling it at cover price?

Entirely possible but seems improbable due to the number of issues they seem to have available.  I of course don't know how many copies they sold before getting to this current $120 but I'd think they were selling briskly since E-Bay prices were double that.  How many people would not pick up a book that has a cover of $25 and is selling for $250?  Not many to zero would be my guess.  The fact that they still have copies available at the $120 price leads me to believe the intentionally short sold the market to bump up the price.  Sounds like they do it all the time based on what others have said. 

If this practice is on the up and up why can no one think of a similar situation happening in any sales situation.

[ExNihilo]

42 minutes ago, kHAoS said:

Off the top of my head, Nintendo definitely shorted or held back inventory of the Classic NES when it was first launched and that created a huge feeding frenzy during the holidays a few years back.  Companies like Apple don't necessarily mark-up the product, but the retail outlet that sells the item before it gets to the consumer can raise the price.  Every Honda Civic Type-R sold last year probably had a 2k-5k dealer mark-up, with the most outrageous one having a 20k mark-up (although I'm pretty sure no one was crazy enough to pay that price).  Back in the heyday of game system launches, it was impossible to purchase a Sega Dreamcast, PS2, or PSP without purchasing additional games or accessories and this applied to Best Buy, Gamestop, EB Games, Circuit City stores in my area.

Your Apple argument does not take into account that Apple is not marketing and selling a limited edition collectible and this happens to be a limited comic and the retail vendor is also a hobby store for most intents and purposes.  We don't know if Torpedo or Midtown intentionally held back stock to artificially raise prices, since that implies that both stores would almost be colluding to do this.  Given that both stores had to process hundreds of orders, there is a high probability that some orders got cancelled and they just sold the book at the current market price.

Let's put it this way, if your LCS had customers who had Teen Titans #12 in their pull-lists and a month later didn't pay for their books, would you fault the store for marking up the book, instead of selling it at cover price?

None of the listed situations are comparable.

- NES Classic was sold by multiple outlets at a set price ($59.99 i believe?).  Any new shipments to Target or Walmart were sold at the MSRP and was not marked up to match the second hand/auction prices.  If you want to argue that Nintendo held back supplies to increase demand, that could be true.  But the fact that the dealers did not increase the price means no one benefited.  In fact, the dealers most likely lost out on the opportunity cost because demand far exceeded supply even after Nintendo announced it was ceasing production (though, I'm glad to hear that it's coming back at the end of June).

- The Honda Civic Type R was available from multiple dealerships, likely in the hundreds.  If you didn't find a price you liked, you could go to a different dealership.  Additionally, marking up the price of cars has always been at the dealerships discretion.  Typically cars are marked up to attain a level of profitability.  I'm guessing Honda dealerships didn't mark up the cars 3 or 4 times with each new shipment.

- Video game bundles seem fairly common these days with new launches.  Again, the bundles have a set MSRP and the amount does not change simply because of increased demand on the open market.

- The LCS example is the closest one, and I'll admit it gave me pause.  But your LCS isn't the only one selling Teen Titans #12 and whether they drip sell comics or not isn't going to impact the value on the open market.  Also, depending on when they move books to their back issue, maybe they only have enough room on the shelves for a month.  Frankly, if my LCS took all the Teen Titans off the shelf and then a week later I saw them in the back bin for $20, I'd be a little upset when other "new titles" are still sitting in the appropriate new issue section.

The bottom line is this, Torpedo/Midtown/Paris Comics are the primary (and sole) vendors and their actions seem to have directly influenced the value on the open market.  Had they just come out and immediately sold the books for $80/issue, there would be no problems because it is well within their right to determine a good profitability point.  But "selling out" and then increasing the book and then "selling out" again, to me, that just screams price fixing/collusion.

Edited May 14, 2018 by ExNihilo

[kHAoS]

45 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

None of the listed situations are comparable.

- NES Classic was sold by multiple outlets at a set price ($59.99 i believe?).  Any new shipments to Target or Walmart were sold at the MSRP and was not marked up to match the second hand/auction prices.  If you want to argue that Nintendo held back supplies to increase demand, that could be true.  But the fact that the dealers did not increase the price means no one benefited.  In fact, the dealers most likely lost out on the opportunity cost because demand far exceeded supply even after Nintendo announced it was ceasing production (though, I'm glad to hear that it's coming back at the end of June).

- The Honda Civic Type R was available from multiple dealerships, likely in the hundreds.  If you didn't find a price you liked, you could go to a different dealership.  Additionally, marking up the price of cars has always been at the dealerships discretion.  Typically cars are marked up to attain a level of profitability.  I'm guessing Honda dealerships didn't mark up the cars 3 or 4 times with each new shipment.

- Video game bundles seem fairly common these days with new launches.  Again, the bundles have a set MSRP and the amount does not change simply because of increased demand on the open market.

- The LCS example is the closest one, and I'll admit it gave me pause.  But your LCS isn't the only one selling Teen Titans #12 and whether they drip sell comics or not isn't going to impact the value on the open market.  Also, depending on when they move books to their back issue, maybe they only have enough room on the shelves for a month.  Frankly, if my LCS took all the Teen Titans off the shelf and then a week later I saw them in the back bin for $20, I'd be a little upset when other "new titles" are still sitting in the appropriate new issue section.

The bottom line is this, Torpedo/Midtown/Paris Comics are the primary (and sole) vendors and their actions seem to have directly influenced the value on the open market.  Had they just come out and immediately sold the books for $80/issue, there would be no problems because it is well within their right to determine a good profitability point.  But "selling out" and then increasing the book and then "selling out" again, to me, that just screams price fixing/collusion.

I probably should have been more clear in my original post, my examples weren't meant to be exact comparisons, but more to bring attention to the fact that there are differing degrees of monkey-business for companies to generate more demand or money that creates a bit of heart-burn for the consumer.  I can see the case being made for the stores to be colluding together to raise prices, but I just can't see why the stores would want to risk their reputations for a short-term sales bump such as this.

As an aside, going back to your Civic Type-R response, not sure how things were in your neck of the woods, but when I tried reserving the car 6 months before the release, no dealership in my state and 3 other neighboring states were taking reservations without 2k-5k extra mark-up.  Maybe if I extended my search beyond that, I could've gotten it for MSRP, but based on my personal experience, simply trying a different dealership did not work out in my favor.

[TYPE-R]

I keep seeing my name.

The Type-R trim level is considered luxury so they don't sell them based off MSRP especially when they first come out and demand is high. They're also no where near as in demand as they've been in the past so you shouldn't have trouble finding one for close to MSRP.

Midtown has the right to make money of an in-demand item, especially if the item already shipped and they found extras. Now If the trend continues in the future, there are other places where i can spend money.

[hipywolf]

looks like things have shaken out and the tour variant is settling around $100.  Still curious how these suckers are gonna get graded.  Shouldn't be too long before we see a few graded copies hit.   Crazy how many total copies of AC 1000 were printed, ~450K.   

[TYPE-R]

Action Comics #1000 Convention Edition for Megacon, limited to 1000. I like this one better then the color version.

https://www.bulletproofcomix.com/store/p275/Action_%231000_Dell_'Otto_Convention_Edition.html

 

 

[1Cool]

59 minutes ago, hipywolf said:

looks like things have shaken out and the tour variant is settling around $100.  Still curious how these suckers are gonna get graded.  Shouldn't be too long before we see a few graded copies hit.   Crazy how many total copies of AC 1000 were printed, ~450K.   

My two copies are sitting at graded for the last couple days.  Hopefully they will ship by this weekend and we will see how they grade them.

[williamblood]

4 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

My two copies are sitting at graded for the last couple days.  Hopefully they will ship by this weekend and we will see how they grade them.

what do you think 9.8 are gonna sell for

[1Cool]

46 minutes ago, williamblood said:

what do you think 9.8 are gonna sell for

If I get two I'll put one up for auction and see what the market says.  Should be plenty of interest in the 1st to market book to tempt fate with an auction.  If raws are going for $100, I'd guess $500 - $600 especially if the common defect keeps 9.8 numbers low.

[ygogolak]

57 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

If I get two I'll put one up for auction and see what the market says.  Should be plenty of interest in the 1st to market book to tempt fate with an auction.  If raws are going for $100, I'd guess $500 - $600 especially if the common defect keeps 9.8 numbers low.

Maybe the first one for sale. I don't see more that $250, $300 after that.

[1Cool]

1 minute ago, ygogolak said:

Maybe the first one for sale. I don't see more that $250, $300 after that.

All a guess but if the 9.8 numbers are kept low (200 or less) then I think $500 is a good estimate if the book is a key in the making and so limited.  Are copies still for sale for $120?