Miracleman 5 5

[helionaut]

 

 

If they do restart Miracleman (with reprint rights to make trade paperbacks of the previously published issues), what do you think the individual issue prices

will do? I've kinda always thought they would soften a little, since a good amount of people buying these issues are buying them to read first, and collect second. I'm not saying the will soften much, but I would think the demand would decrease a little. What do you guys think.

 

I'm back and forth on this. I understand your arguement. Heck, it's perfectly logical - demand is high for collectors and readers. The only way you can read it is to buy the issues.

 

On the other hand, I think the prices tend to keep people from buying it and seeing how wonderful it truly is (like that cheap-arse Andy ). Once the trades are available and people can read the story on the cheap, they may want to assemble the run and drive prices even higher.

 

I think there's a pretty good track record for the real top-notch work to hold and often increase in value once reprinted. While there is a segment of the market that would be content with a trade or Absolute-style big hardback (please oh please), I think a big reason why prices aren't higher than they are is due to lack of exposure people have to the books. You can find the first few issues pretty easily, but the series really doesn't take off until after that. I think that of the segment whose first complete reading will be in TPB form, there will be a large percentage who say,"Now I see what all the fuss is about, I want the original issues," and then there could be an upswing. If new books ever come out, and they tie into the originals, new key issues, 1st apps, etc., could become more sought after.

[EwanUK]

 

 

If they do restart Miracleman (with reprint rights to make trade paperbacks of the previously published issues), what do you think the individual issue prices

will do? I've kinda always thought they would soften a little, since a good amount of people buying these issues are buying them to read first, and collect second. I'm not saying the will soften much, but I would think the demand would decrease a little. What do you guys think.

 

I'm back and forth on this. I understand your arguement. Heck, it's perfectly logical - demand is high for collectors and readers. The only way you can read it is to buy the issues.

 

On the other hand, I think the prices tend to keep people from buying it and seeing how wonderful it truly is (like that cheap-arse Andy ). Once the trades are available and people can read the story on the cheap, they may want to assemble the run and drive prices even higher.

 

I think there's a pretty good track record for the real top-notch work to hold and often increase in value once reprinted. While there is a segment of the market that would be content with a trade or Absolute-style big hardback (please oh please), I think a big reason why prices aren't higher than they are is due to lack of exposure people have to the books. You can find the first few issues pretty easily, but the series really doesn't take off until after that. I think that of the segment whose first complete reading will be in TPB form, there will be a large percentage who say,"Now I see what all the fuss is about, I want the original issues," and then there could be an upswing. If new books ever come out, and they tie into the originals, new key issues, 1st apps, etc., could become more sought after.

 

Agree with all of the above - the added dimension is precisely WHAT is re-printed (i.e. just the Moore issues or everything - including all the DVD type stuff) OR whether brand new stories are published. I think if The Silver Age is completed, 23 and 24 would sky-rocket.

There's also Miracleman Triumphant that was written and pencilled - the Marvel UK stuff and much more in fanzines.

But people will always want the originals. Well, I do at least - copies both to read again and again - and copies to gaze admiringly at through very expensive plastic!

[EwanUK]

 

...unless it gets damaged like your Primer 2 in paltry 9.0!

 

Are you saying a comic you sent to CGC actually got 'slightly' damaged by them and was then graded much lower than expected?

 

I've always wondered if this happened. I mean if you submit a comic in 9.8 or above the TINIEST mistake could knock the grade down. Even opening it to count the pages!

[EwanUK]

I have a friend who he has the entire issue 25 photocopies from Mark Buckingham that would have finished out the Silver Age, so, yes, it was completed and was ready to go before Eclipse went bankrupt. I don't think there was an issue 26, though, because the story was wrapped up in No. 25, or so the photocopies would make you think.

 

Mike, been meaning to ask - in your Overstreet report this year you mention the MM 2D/3D variant (as you know we discussed it some time ago and Chris and I are actively looking now) - you mention a collector offering $500 , assume that was me? And secondly, have you noted any being sold - you report suggests so... ? cheers

[matewan1990]

You know, what's funny is that for two years, I tried every way in the world to get people to take those Miracleman pages off of me in trades and by selling them but no one wanted any of the MM art I had. So, I traded the art and then, everyone started saying "Man, I wish I'd have known." The Starlin MM 4 cover I traded, everyone told me it wasn't worth even the $1000 I paid for it. But, the guy who told me that got more than $3300 for it. The guy I traded the Totleben stuff to said he didn't think he could even get $250 for the page and its eight drawings. But, he ended up selling it for $636. The three Triumphant pages sold for exactly what I knew they were worth and for exactly what Tom Fleming gave me for them. He was the only dealer who was straight up with me on the MM art. THE ONLY ONE. All the rest told me that there wasn't enough of a following for MM and that the art would never sell for what I wanted for it. Heck, what I wanted was only, like, $10-$20 more than what I'd paid for each piece of MM art and that was to cover the cost of shipping and handling I'd paid when I bought them. So, I didn't make anything major off of the sale and trade of the art. The MM 12 preliminary looked almost exactly like the published cover and was probably the nicest of the pieces I had. It was super sweet. It and the Starlin are the only two pieces of MM art I'd like to have back. I know a guy who has a recreation of Olympus's cover. It's beautiful and it took Totleben two years to do it. The guy paid $2000 for it and it looks like it was definitely worth it. And that guy just sold off the remaining MM art he had. He had a Jim Lee MM drawing and a Matt Wagner MM and some other MM pieces of art. He used to have lots of Veitch and lots of Totleben. He had the birth pages from MM 9 and a lot of other, really nice pieces. But, he sold them all off to buy other things.

[pkveronese]

You know, what's funny is that for two years, I tried every way in the world to get people to take those Miracleman pages off of me in trades and by selling them but no one wanted any of the MM art I had. So, I traded the art and then, everyone started saying "Man, I wish I'd have known." The Starlin MM 4 cover I traded, everyone told me it wasn't worth even the $1000 I paid for it. But, the guy who told me that got more than $3300 for it. The guy I traded the Totleben stuff to said he didn't think he could even get $250 for the page and its eight drawings. But, he ended up selling it for $636. The three Triumphant pages sold for exactly what I knew they were worth and for exactly what Tom Fleming gave me for them. He was the only dealer who was straight up with me on the MM art. THE ONLY ONE. All the rest told me that there wasn't enough of a following for MM and that the art would never sell for what I wanted for it. Heck, what I wanted was only, like, $10-$20 more than what I'd paid for each piece of MM art and that was to cover the cost of shipping and handling I'd paid when I bought them. So, I didn't make anything major off of the sale and trade of the art. The MM 12 preliminary looked almost exactly like the published cover and was probably the nicest of the pieces I had. It was super sweet. It and the Starlin are the only two pieces of MM art I'd like to have back. I know a guy who has a recreation of Olympus's cover. It's beautiful and it took Totleben two years to do it. The guy paid $2000 for it and it looks like it was definitely worth it. And that guy just sold off the remaining MM art he had. He had a Jim Lee MM drawing and a Matt Wagner MM and some other MM pieces of art. He used to have lots of Veitch and lots of Totleben. He had the birth pages from MM 9 and a lot of other, really nice pieces. But, he sold them all off to buy other things.

 

 

That's crazy man - here's to you buying that Starlin peice and the MM 12 prelim back someday...

I think part of its just a new generation discovering it. I'm 24, so the last miracleman issue came out when I was 12, and I wouldn't want to know what I would have thought of mm #24 if I had read it then (wow...but that sure probably would have been interesting to see my pre-pubescent reaction ). Also, with the advent of bittorent, almost anybody can download the series in the course of a couple of hours and read it. I think that factor may have been more important in the Miracleman resurgence than anything else.

- Keith

Edited September 30, 2005 by pkveronese

[october]

 

...unless it gets damaged like your Primer 2 in paltry 9.0!

 

Are you saying a comic you sent to CGC actually got 'slightly' damaged by them and was then graded much lower than expected?

 

I've always wondered if this happened. I mean if you submit a comic in 9.8 or above the TINIEST mistake could knock the grade down. Even opening it to count the pages!

 

Not one of mine, but Brad's Primer 2 was. I don't really know the details, so I will let him explain it.

[chrisco37]

Mike, been meaning to ask - in your Overstreet report this year you mention the MM 2D/3D variant (as you know we discussed it some time ago and Chris and I are actively looking now) - you mention a collector offering $500 , assume that was me? And secondly, have you noted any being sold - you report suggests so... ? cheers

 

Yes, please tell. This information would be invaluable.

 

If you do have any sale's data, please PM me with those details and also pass it along to Tom Gordon (TomG on the boards).

 

I'm fairly confident that Ewan and I have given enough info to Gemstone to include the 2D into the new OS. Sales data would be great so the book can appear with some "value" notation instead of "No known sales".

[helionaut]

Dang, I saw this morning that the guy on ebay with the 9.8 lowered the BIN to $249. I debated about buying but had to leave before digging into it further, though I figured someone would snag it. I like that book but wasn't sure I liked it that much. Sure enough it sold within a couple hours after that. Now I have snoozer-loser remorse. Ah, well. My LCS has the whole run in good shape minus 15, so I can still get a fix if I need it.

[pkveronese]

I wouldn't worry about it. Sure, a BIN at $249 is not bad, but people were still pulling copies of MM 15 out of dollar boxes (granted - probably not 9.8s) last year. I'm sure you will come across a nice copy.

[heartened]

You know, what's funny is that for two years, I tried every way in the world to get people to take those Miracleman pages off of me in trades and by selling them but no one wanted any of the MM art I had. So, I traded the art and then, everyone started saying "Man, I wish I'd have known." The Starlin MM 4 cover I traded, everyone told me it wasn't worth even the $1000 I paid for it. But, the guy who told me that got more than $3300 for it. The guy I traded the Totleben stuff to said he didn't think he could even get $250 for the page and its eight drawings. But, he ended up selling it for $636. The three Triumphant pages sold for exactly what I knew they were worth and for exactly what Tom Fleming gave me for them. He was the only dealer who was straight up with me on the MM art. THE ONLY ONE. All the rest told me that there wasn't enough of a following for MM and that the art would never sell for what I wanted for it. Heck, what I wanted was only, like, $10-$20 more than what I'd paid for each piece of MM art and that was to cover the cost of shipping and handling I'd paid when I bought them. So, I didn't make anything major off of the sale and trade of the art. The MM 12 preliminary looked almost exactly like the published cover and was probably the nicest of the pieces I had. It was super sweet. It and the Starlin are the only two pieces of MM art I'd like to have back. I know a guy who has a recreation of Olympus's cover. It's beautiful and it took Totleben two years to do it. The guy paid $2000 for it and it looks like it was definitely worth it. And that guy just sold off the remaining MM art he had. He had a Jim Lee MM drawing and a Matt Wagner MM and some other MM pieces of art. He used to have lots of Veitch and lots of Totleben. He had the birth pages from MM 9 and a lot of other, really nice pieces. But, he sold them all off to buy other things.

 

Well, it sounds to me like you got duped. This happens in all hobbies, including comic books, but it's maybe more prevalent in original comic art because there's so much lack of readily-available information. Of course those buying from you will say that the demand is low. Your counter should have been: yeah, but the supply is lower, and demand will increase because it was a very popular character/series, and eventually those "kids" who read it will grow up and grow more nostalgic. Dealers and buyers will always play their side, but you've got to play the other side so you can come to the middle somewhere. Miracleman art has always been in demand, even way before you sold these pages/sketches. It's become more in demand lately, but the cat's already out of the bag.

 

Case in point: I bought the cover to TMNT #3 several years ago. There was NO demand AT ALL and there REMAINS no demand. But, I paid a serious chuck of money for it because the seller had enough info to realize what he was sitting on. I didn't even bother saying "there's no demand, it's a lost title/character, etc." because we both knew that it was as good as gold. And I paid accordingly.

 

I hope you get those pages back again. Sometimes things do come full circle, so here's hoping!

[dem1138]

You can go on Veitch's website and see the MM #9 pages - they were sold for $75-$150/EACH! He hasn't updated the site in awhile - but everything has sold...

[matewan1990]

You can go on Veitch's website and see the MM #9 pages - they were sold for $75-$150/EACH! He hasn't updated the site in awhile - but everything has sold...

 

That's nothing... the original John Totleben cover art to Miracleman 15 sold for $650 a few years back.

[chrisco37]

You can go on Veitch's website and see the MM #9 pages - they were sold for $75-$150/EACH! He hasn't updated the site in awhile - but everything has sold...

 

That's nothing... the original John Totleben cover art to Miracleman 15 sold for $650 a few years back.

 

Crazy!

 

Check out these prices as well from John T.

 

Don't bother, I already tried....Site is old.

[SignatureSelect]

I have a MM 17 coming back from CGC very soon it is going to be Signature series. It is signed by neil gaiman It will be the only copy in existence. I am not sure what the grade will be but i know it won't be 9.8. If anyone is interested send me a pm and we can talk.

[pkveronese]

Are these the ones solicited via Diamond a earlier this year?

[Nexus]

I have the Gold edition of MiracleMan #1. Signed by Alan Moore at the 1985 San Diego Comic Con. Is this the same comic that's worth $1500 that someone posted earlier in this thread???

 

It's basically the exact same issue as the regular #1 except it has Moore's autograph. The certificate is not bound together with the book, it is seperate.

 

I had no idea this was such an in-demand item.

 

Can someone fill me in on the other rare editions? I'm not aware of all of them.

 

Thanks!

[chrisco37]

I have the Gold edition of MiracleMan #1. Signed by Alan Moore at the 1985 San Diego Comic Con. Is this the same comic that's worth $1500 that someone posted earlier in this thread???

 

It's basically the exact same issue as the regular #1 except it has Moore's autograph. The certificate is not bound together with the book, it is seperate.

 

I had no idea this was such an in-demand item.

 

Can someone fill me in on the other rare editions? I'm not aware of all of them.

 

Thanks!

 

You are correct about the Gold Variant. The Moore sig and certificate are the only difference from the regular edition. Can't recall who, but there is another sig on there as well; one of the Eclipse honcho's. I don't think it's Cat Y. though.

 

Other Rare Editions:

 

The "Blue Variant" - same as Gold, but more copies. I think this one only has the Moore sig.

 

3D Special (2D Version) - this was printed by Eclipse at the same time as the 3D version. I have only been able to verify the existance of 1 copy (the MSU Library copy), but more have to be out there. Probably unkown to the owner as it looks exactly the same as the regular edition. There was one on eBay a few years back, so I guess that makes 2 actual known copies.

[pkveronese]

3D Special (2D Version) - this was printed by Eclipse at the same time as the 3D version. I have only been able to verify the existance of 1 copy (the MSU Library copy), but more have to be out there. Probably unkown to the owner as it looks exactly the same as the regular edition. There was one on eBay a few years back, so I guess that makes 2 actual known copies.

 

Is there anything at all to help differentitate the 3D version from the 2D version other than the interior? Thanks! - Keith

[chrisco37]

 

Is there anything at all to help differentitate the 3D version from the 2D version other than the interior? Thanks! - Keith

 

No. The only way to tell is to look at the actual pages. They will not have the 3D effect. Here is an excerpt from my email with Randy Scott, Comic Art Bibliographer MSU Special Collections regarding this issue:

 

but that doesn't appear on the indicia page, which so far as I can tell is just exactly the same as the one for the real 3D ed.

 

I have some copies of the first few pages of the non-3D issue. I (still) do not have a scanner, but would be more than happy to send/fax you a copy if you'd like. PM me if you are interested.