valiantman Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 20 hours ago, blazingbob said: What type of cuddling and other things can we do to get you to come back to a convention? Was that a typo for "coddling" or do you really like promoters to spoon you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabellum Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 2 hours ago, NoMan said: no, not at all. Just simply chose to delete my comment as it was discussed else where at length and better than I could ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabellum Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 18 hours ago, blazingbob said: LOL, I did enjoy reading that market report. Subtle as a Mack truck. GPA is one source of pricing. And no I don't mind hearing GPA if a buyer is willing to hear my data sales since I'm one of those who doesn't report to GPA. And my sales data goes back a lot further. Any reasonable buyer should hear what you have to say. I totally agree with you. shortboxed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) Interesting comments re: the pre-show skim and how things work at shows. I have been doing shows locally since 1997 as a small part-time dealer (primarily to blow out stuff I did not want from collections) when I was in university, and here are some observations: 1) While there will sometimes be new small sellers at shows that have stuff underpriced, for the most part I find it that they will be overgrading and overpricing rather than the opposite. If they have something that I or other dealers want they may negotiate a bit, but more often than not deals do not materialize due to the overgrading/overpricing issue. After a couple of shows with no or low sales they either correct their grading/pricing or stop coming out. 2) Most pre-show sales between dealers are at prices close to market. My simple rule is this - other dealers will not get the best price from me. That is reserved for my long term regular customers and a small circle of collector friends. I may have something underpriced once in a while in my back issue longs that I miss (but at that price I am still making $$$ so I am fine), but other dealers are typically chasing wall books. They either pay full market or the small discount I may give to other buyers, but that is it. Most dealers have no qualms in paying those prices since they either i) mark things up well above current market value anyway (I can't believe the prices they get in Eastern Canada for books), ii) know they have a sale right away to a regular customer and are fine making 5 - 10% to keep them happy, or iii) they want to add more copies of a key issue that is still running up. 3) As I have stated before in other threads, the hobby is trending to younger collectors now and has been since 2010 or 2011. I can remember doing shows in the 00s when baby boomers and older collectors made up the crowd and I was worried about the hobby. Now, there are a ton of new male and female collectors in the 16-30 age group that are buying back issues. The difference is they are predominantly key/1st appearance/hot cover issue collectors only. For run books, they either buy the omnibus or read the filler issues digitally. It is the Gen Xers and older collectors that still chase runs. These new collectors also are fully aware of what current GPA or online prices are for books and have no qualms paying full market for them. 4) The hot modern variant collectors are a much stronger subset of collectors than I anticipated. I thought that this group would have died down a long time ago, and I was wrong. If anything, I see more people chasing Campbell, Dell Otto, Hughes, Artgerm, etc. covers year over year. Edited August 16, 2018 by kimik shortboxed, zosocane and The Lions Den 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valiantman Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, kimik said: 3) As I have stated before in other threads, the hobby is trending to younger collectors now and has been since 2010 or 2011. I can remember doing shows in the 00s when baby boomers and older collectors made up the crowd and I was worried about the hobby. Now, there are a ton of new male and female collectors in the 16-30 age group that are buying back issues. The difference is they are predominantly key/1st appearance/hot cover issue collectors only. For run books, they either buy the omnibus or read the filler issues digitally. It is the Gen Xers and older collectors that still chase runs. These new collectors also are fully aware of what current GPA or online prices are for books and have no qualms paying full market for them. 4) The hot modern variant collectors are a much stronger subset of collectors than I anticipated. I thought that this group would have died down a long time ago, and I was wrong. If anything, I see more people chasing Campbell, Dell Otto, Hughes, Artgerm, etc. covers year over year. I'm pretty sure these two statements reinforce each other. Hulk #181 is "on fire" because the same "kids" (age 16-30) who are buying modern variants for $1,000+ have no problem paying $1,000+ for ANY copy of the first appearance of a major character like Wolverine. I believed that the modern variant prices would have to fall, because they're too high relative to key issues, but I was wrong. The key issues were priced too low relative to modern variants. Edited August 16, 2018 by valiantman zosocane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark88 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, kimik said: 3) As I have stated before in other threads, the hobby is trending to younger collectors now and has been since 2010 or 2011. I can remember doing shows in the 00s when baby boomers and older collectors made up the crowd and I was worried about the hobby. Now, there are a ton of new male and female collectors in the 16-30 age group that are buying back issues. The difference is they are predominantly key/1st appearance/hot cover issue collectors only. For run books, they either buy the omnibus or read the filler issues digitally. It is the Gen Xers and older collectors that still chase runs. These new collectors also are fully aware of what current GPA or online prices are for books and have no qualms paying full market for them. Depends on the average age of the population in one's city. e.g. If the avg age in Edmonton or Calgary is 34 years old then there will be more teenagers and collector/fans to support up to 10 hobby stores. Compared to Vancouver, BC or Victoria, BC where the avg age may be 44 years old, these old fogeys are low ballers and completed most of their collections 10 years ago but are still trying to restock keys and semi-keys for pressing and flipping. The Vancouver and suburban area only has about 7 'comic' shops left: 1 which should have closed 2 years ago and only seems to be open in the evenings with no gaming; other is primarily a model kit shop with sideline in mass media comics like Star Trek, MLP My Little Pony, blow out back issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg343 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 15 hours ago, chrisco37 said: There are ways around that. Have you sent “want lists” to dealers prior to a big show? Bob Storms is my favorite comic dealer. I see him once a year in Baltimore. A month or so before the show, I send him a list of books I’m interested in. Some stuff is inventory on his site. Others might not be. Without fail, the books are there for me to look at even though I usually come midshow on Saturday. The good guys will take care of you. I’m not his biggest customer by any stretch, but I’m a 15+/- year repeat. He’s been good to me over the years. There’s value in that. Rick (gator), earlier in the thread, said that the good/successful guys aren’t just selling books. They’re selling themselves too. I’d suggest that, before the next big show, you touch base with some dealers that will be there. Give them a “want list”. You’re not committed to buying everything they bring. But they might have something they weren’t planning on bringing. Win/Win I appreciate this and I agree most sellers are selling themselves especially if they want top dollar. I just never personally cared about that kind of relationship. I mostly stick with Comiclink for slabs these days as they eventually have everything. If I am going to spend the time digging at a con I am looking for deals and they just don't exist in this format anymore. There are only so many overpriced NM98s you can look at on the booth walls in one day . I am west coast so I imagine the east coast cons get better items as most of the big dealers seem to be in that region. Even at ECCC selection isn't that great. The business model seems to still be working for some dealers and I hope it continues. Just supplement some of that online so I can buy your stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, aardvark88 said: Depends on the average age of the population in one's city. e.g. If the avg age in Edmonton or Calgary is 34 years old then there will be more teenagers and collector/fans to support up to 10 hobby stores. Compared to Vancouver, BC or Victoria, BC where the avg age may be 44 years old, these old fogeys are low ballers and completed most of their collections 10 years ago but are still trying to restock keys and semi-keys for pressing and flipping. The Vancouver and suburban area only has about 7 'comic' shops left: 1 which should have closed 2 years ago and only seems to be open in the evenings with no gaming; other is primarily a model kit shop with sideline in mass media comics like Star Trek, MLP My Little Pony, blow out back issues. There is only a 5 or 6 year difference in the average age of Alberta and BC so that is not really the issue. I think differences in levels of disposable income play a bigger factor than age since real estate in BC is overpriced/overvalued while it is still relatively low in Alberta, and the median after-tax income is about $20K higher in Alberta than it is in BC (and this holds true for Calgary/Edmonton vs. Vancouver/Victoria on a city basis). That trend has been in place since 2000 or so, but we did not see the big upswing in young collectors here until 1) the success of the New 52 relaunch (2011) and recent Image new release peak in 2012 and 2) comic movies becoming the big draws at the box office over the past decade. The DC New 52 relaunch brought a ton of new female readers into the hobby, and as Dave/thehumantorch will now concede, they are a big factor in the marketplace now (especially for Artgerm variant covers over the past year). Edited August 16, 2018 by kimik aardvark88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg343 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, kimik said: Interesting comments re: the pre-show skim and how things work at shows. I have been doing shows locally since 1997 as a small part-time dealer (primarily to blow out stuff I did not want from collections) when I was in university, and here are some observations: 1) While there will sometimes be new small sellers at shows that have stuff underpriced, for the most part I find it that they will be overgrading and overpricing rather than the opposite. If they have something that I or other dealers want they may negotiate a bit, but more often than not deals do not materialize due to the overgrading/overpricing issue. After a couple of shows with no or low sales they either correct their grading/pricing or stop coming out. 2) Most pre-show sales between dealers are at prices close to market. My simple rule is this - other dealers will not get the best price from me. That is reserved for my long term regular customers and a small circle of collector friends. I may have something underpriced once in a while in my back issue longs that I miss (but at that price I am still making $$$ so I am fine), but other dealers are typically chasing wall books. They either pay full market or the small discount I may give to other buyers, but that is it. Most dealers have no qualms in paying those prices since they either i) mark things up well above current market value anyway (I can't believe the prices they get in Eastern Canada for books), ii) know they have a sale right away to a regular customer and are fine making 5 - 10% to keep them happy, or iii) they want to add more copies of a key issue that is still running up. 3) As I have stated before in other threads, the hobby is trending to younger collectors now and has been since 2010 or 2011. I can remember doing shows in the 00s when baby boomers and older collectors made up the crowd and I was worried about the hobby. Now, there are a ton of new male and female collectors in the 16-30 age group that are buying back issues. The difference is they are predominantly key/1st appearance/hot cover issue collectors only. For run books, they either buy the omnibus or read the filler issues digitally. It is the Gen Xers and older collectors that still chase runs. These new collectors also are fully aware of what current GPA or online prices are for books and have no qualms paying full market for them. 4) The hot modern variant collectors are a much stronger subset of collectors than I anticipated. I thought that this group would have died down a long time ago, and I was wrong. If anything, I see more people chasing Campbell, Dell Otto, Hughes, Artgerm, etc. covers year over year. You have a good pulse on the market. Especially your comment on omnibus which is a bigger market than most people think. There are some expensive collected issues. I personally have moved more towards this myself. I collect Keys slabs and match them with omnibus for reading and have mostly offloaded my long boxes. It is how my friends mostly collect and when I sell it is what other are looking for. If I do an auction most people will PM with got any Campbell covers type of messages. Flip side is these types of collectors are not the ones dropping 10k on a book, but they buy up all the $500 1st gambit type slabs. Edited August 16, 2018 by slg343 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazingbob Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, slg343 said: I appreciate this and I agree most sellers are selling themselves especially if they want top dollar. I just never personally cared about that kind of relationship. I mostly stick with Comiclink for slabs these days as they eventually have everything. If I am going to spend the time digging at a con I am looking for deals and they just don't exist in this format anymore. There are only so many overpriced NM98s you can look at on the booth walls in one day . I am west coast so I imagine the east coast cons get better items as most of the big dealers seem to be in that region. Even at ECCC selection isn't that great. The business model seems to still be working for some dealers and I hope it continues. Just supplement some of that online so I can buy your stuff Wow, the first honest rejection post. I thought every collector wanted to be friends with their buyers, hang out, do dinner, talk comics. Should we play hard to get, throw ourselves at you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, slg343 said: I appreciate this and I agree most sellers are selling themselves especially if they want top dollar. I just never personally cared about that kind of relationship. I mostly stick with Comiclink for slabs these days as they eventually have everything. If I am going to spend the time digging at a con I am looking for deals and they just don't exist in this format anymore. There are only so many overpriced NM98s you can look at on the booth walls in one day . I am west coast so I imagine the east coast cons get better items as most of the big dealers seem to be in that region. Even at ECCC selection isn't that great. The business model seems to still be working for some dealers and I hope it continues. Just supplement some of that online so I can buy your stuff If you are on the pacific NW, then come up to the Calgary Expo or Edmonton Expo. There are plenty of dealers from across Canada at the show with a great selection of GA/SA/BA books, as well as more modern stuff. The Calgary Expo is the bigger of the two, and it is now attracting US dealers who just take a booth to be able to buy at it which means the grading/pricing/selection must make it worthwhile. There are a ton of nice GA and SA/BA collections tucked away in Alberta that are slowly starting to surface again as well, so the next few years should be interesting from a buying perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg343 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, blazingbob said: Wow, the first honest rejection post. I thought every collector wanted to be friends with their buyers, hang out, do dinner, talk comics. Should we play hard to get, throw ourselves at you? For most dealers just being polite would be a huge improvement I kid I kid, but seriously some rude dealers out there. shortboxed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, slg343 said: You have a good pulse on the market. Especially your comment on omnibus which is a bigger market than most people think. There are some expensive collected issues. I personally have moved more towards this myself. I collect Keys slabs and match them with omnibus for reading and have mostly offloaded my long boxes. It is how my friends mostly collect and when I sell it is what other are looking for. If I do an auction most people will PM with got any Campbell covers type of messages. Flip side is these types of collectors are not the ones dropping 10k on a book, but they buy up they buy up the $500 1st gambit type slabs. This is definitely the direction the hobby has been trending the past decade. Trades/ominibi? are the way of the future before comics go totally digital. You would be surprised at how many of these collectors are also dropping $5K+ on SA and even GA keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg343 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, kimik said: This is definitely the direction the hobby has been trending the past decade. Trades/ominibi? are the way of the future before comics go totally digital. You would be surprised at how many of these collectors are also dropping $5K+ on SA and even GA keys. Good, happy to know it isn't just me. Marvel silver age #1s look really nice next to matching omnibus. All space I saved selling long boxes is now used on Omnibus/HCs I most have 200 plus and the are kicking them out faster now. They also display much better than dirty white boxes and are a better reading experience. Also squeeze to be had on omnibus books to stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 A lot of dealers don't even have their chit set up before the main doors open. shortboxed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark88 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ryan. said: A lot of dealers don't even have their chit set up before the main doors open. Sorry, we were too busy elbowing all the other dealer/buyers out of the way while scrambling through other vendor's wall inventory during dealer set up. Besides, since I have the strongest inventory at the con and like to smile, the collector/flippers will wait for me to set up my wares. Many collectors squinting at raw comics looking for pressable defects $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazingbob Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 26 minutes ago, aardvark88 said: Sorry, we were too busy elbowing all the other dealer/buyers out of the way while scrambling through other vendor's wall inventory during dealer set up. Besides, since I have the strongest inventory at the con and like to smile, the collector/flippers will wait for me to set up my wares. Many collectors squinting at raw comics looking for pressable defects $$. If you were any good you would be having other guys setting up your booth. Has anybody ever seen Moondog setup a booth at Wizard chicago, I haven't. aardvark88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
october Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, blazingbob said: Has anybody ever seen Moondog setup a booth at Wizard chicago, I haven't. His fanclub does the heavy lifting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Man Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, slg343 said: For most dealers just being polite would be a huge improvement I kid I kid, but seriously some rude dealers out there. Not an excuse but maybe an explanation. Have you ever sold at a show? The whining and stuff a dealer has to put up with is amazing. Most collectors are cool but you just get so may “know it alls” and rude collectors when you’ve put out so much money and time to bring you quality material. I am always polite and respectful to dealers. If I don’t like their prices, grading or attitude I just quietly move on to dealers that service my needs better. The longer you do this the more jaded some seem to get. I’m sure Bob will be happy to confirm this... Edited August 16, 2018 by Robot Man shortboxed and ADAMANTIUM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggy Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, october said: His fanclub does the heavy lifting. Brad barely does any of the real work. It's up to Roger or sometimes Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
