Has anyone had an Ebay buyer claim your book was a fake? 0

[theCapraAegagrus]

4 minutes ago, Mecha_Fantastic said:

This info is all kinds of wrong. 

You could at least provide some evidence to compliment your allegation. Everything I've posted is 100% correct. As someone who's worked for financial institutions and as someone who was/is a cardholder with each network at each level.

[Cat]

2 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

You could at least provide some evidence to compliment your allegation. Everything I've posted is 100% correct. As someone who's worked for financial institutions and as someone who was/is a cardholder with each network at each level.

You're right, I probably should have gone into more detail, but I don't think I'm supposed to share my figures, unfortunately. I'm also someone in banking and finance, hence my familiarity with this stuff. Granted, I'm not American, but I can't imagine the numbers being that drastically different as to make your quote correct. I can't make it work. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

2 minutes ago, Mecha_Fantastic said:

You're right, I probably should have gone into more detail, but I don't think I'm supposed to share my figures, unfortunately. I'm also someone in banking and finance, hence my familiarity with this stuff. Granted, I'm not American, but I can't imagine the numbers being that drastically different as to make your quote correct. I can't make it work. 

I won't pretend to know international financial information if you don't pretend to know American financial information. Is that a fair trade?

America is all about that money, so when you break down network classes. the ones who pay more typically get more. I'm not sure if you're arguing that international banks don't handle the disputes as opposed to Visa/MC themselves..? Or if Visa Sig and WEMC don't advocate for their clients more than the individual banks..?

I won't pretend to know what you know, but what I posted is factually true as of 2018. I've ditched most of my accounts and credit cards over the past couple of months, but I highly doubt anything has changed drastically since November.

[Cat]

3 minutes ago, TwoPiece said:

I won't pretend to know international financial information if you don't pretend to know American financial information. Is that a fair trade?

America is all about that money, so when you break down network classes. the ones who pay more typically get more. I'm not sure if you're arguing that international banks don't handle the disputes as opposed to Visa/MC themselves..? Or if Visa Sig and WEMC don't advocate for their clients more than the individual banks..?

I won't pretend to know what you know, but what I posted is factually true as of 2018. I've ditched most of my accounts and credit cards over the past couple of months, but I highly doubt anything has changed drastically since November.

Excuse me? Did my response really deserve that douchey reply? 

I'll tell you what. I won't pretend to know American finance if you don't pretend to either. Sound fair? 

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, Mecha_Fantastic said:

Excuse me? Did my response really deserve that douchey reply? 

I'll tell you what. I won't pretend to know American finance if you don't pretend to either. Sound fair? 

Kinda. You insisted that my information is incorrect, and it isn't. I'm not trying to be a person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed, but the compromise seems fair, doesn't it?

Considering that I do know American finance, that doesn't seem fair to me.

I'm just being reciprocal. If you allege that my name is Samantha, but it isn't, wouldn't it be fair for me to call you Olga? I digress...

[Cat]

Oh noes, I stated your information is incorrect. Of COURSE that warrants a personal attack in response.

That says A LOT about you, mate. 

[Gaard]

1 hour ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

6. GET INSURANCE. CGC even sent out a promo ad this morning, promoting CIS.

I'm very ignorant when it comes to insurance stuff. Can insurance be beneficial in these types of situations?

[theCapraAegagrus]

11 minutes ago, Mecha_Fantastic said:

Oh noes, I stated your information is incorrect. Of COURSE that warrants a personal attack in response.

That says A LOT about you, mate. 

How are you taking what I replied with as a personal attack..? Lmfao that is outrageous.

I seriously have no emotion invested in this conversation. I would suggest stepping back and taking a few deep breaths. Not a single thing that I've typed is a personal attack. It's mind-boggling to think that you could infer that.

You said yourself that you don't know American finance. Fact. I told you that I don't know international finance. Fact. How is suggesting that we don't pretend to know, what we don't actually know, a personal attack..?

Or are you taking it personally that I said your initial response was "douchey", after you said the exact same thing about my response..? Either way, this doesn't make any sense.

Don't come looking for a fight - because I don't want one. There's no good reason for either of us to waste our time.

Edited February 20, 2019 by TwoPiece
Edit: Typos.

[RockMyAmadeus]

20 minutes ago, Gaard said:

I'm very ignorant when it comes to insurance stuff. Can insurance be beneficial in these types of situations?

If a buyer tries to defraud a seller? I would imagine so. Or, if an item is damaged, or "damaged" going back and forth? Also, I would imagine so.

[dupont2005]

It’s still worth fighting. I had an auto shipping scam company take me for a few hundred dollars once and it was a long fight with my credit card company and they had changed their rulings a few times before finally siding with me after I proved it wasn’t my signature on a contract the company provided and that I didn’t even own the car in question. They had taken and returned my money a couple times before I finally resolved it. I would contact CGC for help

[ADAMANTIUM]

2 hours ago, JaySlim said:

Thanks for the replies all.  I was just about done with PayPal and Ebay when this happened to me but I'd like to give those interested and update.

So, I sold the comic book, a CGC Signature Series Killing Joke signed by Brian Bolland, to an Ebay customer.  I purchased the book from Lone Star Comics and I had no doubt to its authenticity coming from them.  So I shipped the book and then a couple weeks later buyer asks for a refund claiming a friend of his says its a fake.  I politely refuse since I had posted the cert # and listed the book as non returnable.  He opens a case with PayPal with this evidence, see pic 1.  The holographic sticker that CGC used previously to authenticate books was the older one.  Out of curiousity,  I checked what the buyer was selling and lo and behold I find him selling a book with, you guessed it, the very same holograph. pic 2.  So in other words he knew what he was claiming was a bunch of BS.  The item was quickly deleted though and buyer went ahead and he made a claim with his financial institution.   Soon after, the money gets withdrawn from my PayPal account until they get a chance to review the case.   This is beyond frustrating.  

However I am happy to report that the buyers financial institution also decided in my favor. After 4-6 long weeks.  What it boiled down to was, in my opinion, buyers remorse and it is disheartening to see or think that people get away with this kind of theft by gaming the system.   I know this guy had done his homework and knew what to say in order to get the decision sided in his favor but he lost, woot!   

Buyers name was :  dwightfactor         just fyi be cautious if this guy wants buy a book off you.

Well good news that he lost! I'd have been so upset at that buyer  I'm currently selling a restored books in this older CGC slab, I'm thinking this will be difficult or bothersome but I'm also praying too  after all the ebay threads, I just put "Restored...." in the first word of the listing to make sure it is noticed, I am also tempted to email any potential buyer with....

You know this is cheaper because it is restored, right?  

[JaySlim]

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

This is a general reply; these may not all apply to this situation.

1. Take returns. Always take returns. The hassle of taking returns is far, FAR outweighed by the time wasted dealing with things like this. "Sorry you're not happy, if you send it back, I will refund your purchase price. Thanks!" Forcing buyers to keep something they don't want...BARRING FRAUD (see #2)...always, always costs you more in the long run. Remember: the world has its fair share of lunatics, and there are people out there who are dangerous. You could potentially create enemies (rightly or wrongly) who could do you serious, long term damage. In the name of expediency, take the return.

1a. The only exception is in the case of someone trying to defraud you (not just "buyer's remorse.") Fight that, tooth and nail, with everything you've got...but make 100% sure it's fraud, and not just stupidity.

2. Be very diligent in all things. KEEP RECORDS. 

3. Never...under any circumstances, for any reason, get snotty with a buyer, regardless of how insane they are. The second you show one peep of annoyance, you have lost the high ground, and will end up looking "just as bad" before whomever else sees it.

4. Block them and sell to the next person, who will likely be very happy.

5. Report them...and all details...wherever you can. 

6. GET INSURANCE. CGC even sent out a promo ad this morning, promoting CIS.

 

Specific question to Jayslim:

Was this on eBay? Sellers can't "delete" items on eBay. Did you mean the listing was ended? Did you use this evidence to dispute the claim?

Very sound advice, RMA. I will probably take the return next time.  It was on Ebay but I think he ended it.  I tried to to look it up again shortly after and I could not find it, but I diid use it as evidence since I saved the pic.

[Buzzetta]

On 11/29/2018 at 1:37 PM, ExNihilo said:

This is surprising.  Based on what I've read here, it always sounds like the buyer has all the protection in these cases when they file a claim with eBay and PayPal.

For high value books, I'll bring the package to the post office and film in one continuous shot where the book never leaves the camera shot.  I'll lay out the book and packing materials, film a close up of the book/CGC number, set the camera to the side always keeping the book in the shot.  Then i'll place the book in the package, tape it up, apply the shipping label, turn the box around so all 6 sides are shown to the camera, then i'll take the camera to show the shipping label, before walking over and physically handing it over to the USPS employee.  Only after I physically hand off the package, do I stop filming.

There are a few around here that want you to believe that the buyer always wins.  This is not true at all. 

[Buzzetta]

On 11/29/2018 at 2:52 PM, TwoPiece said:

If he paid via checking account, I think it's very unlikely that he wins any such cases from his financial institution. It's the customer's money. Now, if he paid via credit card, then the tune could change. In those cases, it's the bank's money, and they want you accruing interest and paying annual fees (and earning them network transaction fees). It goes from about 0.1% to 25% chance they side with the cardholder if it's a credit transaction.

Then, there's also the case of AmEx v Discover v Visa v Mastercard. If he paid with a credit card and it's AmEx/Discover, the likelihood increases (Visa Signature and World Elite Mastercard have considerably close standards to these 2 networks). A normal Visa or Mastercard holder is at the entire whim of his/her individual bank, and they're probably half as likely to side with the customer as the previous 4 mentioned.

No matter how you cut it, this customer is a DB.

Eh somewhat true but not quite.  Having experienced a charge back twice where the bank tried that... PayPal sided with me.

Case one was buyer shenanigans - I wish that buyer death on Christmas

Case two was the Markey Street incident.  Someone actually did steal a credit card and used it to purchase something from me.  I shipped it to the address eBay provided directly printing the postage from eBay / PayPal.  When the owner of the credit card opened a claim I looked into it and saw that the whole operation in New Jersey was a scam.  I knew the owner of the credit card had a valid claim.  I did too because my merchandise was essentially stolen.  I don't know what happened to the owner of the credit card but those Legos are probably in Russia or the Ukraine and I kept the money.  I don't know if the owner of the credit card lost out or PayPal / eBay ate it...

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

6 minutes ago, JaySlim said:

Very sound advice, RMA. I will probably take the return next time.

I don't want you to think I'm unsympathetic...I totally get why many sellers want to say "it's slabbed, no returns." The thinking is "look, it's graded by professionals, so you shouldn't have any quibbles about the grade. You know what you're getting." And 97% of the time, that's absolutely the case, and buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on.

But...and I can't stress this enough...the hassle involved, that you report here, by not taking a return...I imagine you would be very, very happy to pay the $15 or so in return shipping to have avoided all this, right? I imagine just the time you wasted was worth more than that.

Someone doesn't want it? "No problem, sorry you weren't satisfied, please send it back and I will refund the purchase price plus original shipping."

And SOMETIMES...that will call their bluff. "Wait, wha...? They didn't push back...?? They must know something I don't! Maybe they sold it too cheap! GACK! Now I can't return it!"

If you want to touch the edge of snide without going over, you can say something like "actually, I really liked the book, and was really sad to see it go, so I'm glad to get it back." So long as there's no hint of snark to the buyer, and you make it seem like you were really not thrilled to sell it, and you've made the item seem more valuable to the buyer...because you "want" it back.

Not saying that's the case a lot of the time, but it does happen occasionally. Telling someone they can return it, and they don't...or better yet, say "well, it's not worth the hassle, so I'll just keep it."

WIN. SUPER WIN. Manipulation? You're damn right. The buyer that wants to return a perfectly valid sale deserves what they get...and if you can fool them into thinking it's THEIR loss to return it, rather than yours, you've achieved your goal.

[Buzzetta]

2 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

This is a general reply; these may not all apply to this situation.

1. Take returns. Always take returns. The hassle of taking returns is far, FAR outweighed by the time wasted dealing with things like this. "Sorry you're not happy, if you send it back, I will refund your purchase price. Thanks!" Forcing buyers to keep something they don't want...BARRING FRAUD (see #2)...always, always costs you more in the long run. Remember: the world has its fair share of lunatics, and there are people out there who are dangerous. You could potentially create enemies (rightly or wrongly) who could do you serious, long term damage. In the name of expediency, take the return.

1a. The only exception is in the case of someone trying to defraud you (not just "buyer's remorse.") Fight that, tooth and nail, with everything you've got...but make 100% sure it's fraud, and not just stupidity.

2. Be very diligent in all things. KEEP RECORDS. 

3. Never...under any circumstances, for any reason, get snotty with a buyer, regardless of how insane they are. The second you show one peep of annoyance, you have lost the high ground, and will end up looking "just as bad" before whomever else sees it.

4. Block them and sell to the next person, who will likely be very happy.

5. Report them...and all details...wherever you can. 

6. GET INSURANCE. CGC even sent out a promo ad this morning, promoting CIS.

 

Specific question to Jayslim:

Was this on eBay? Sellers can't "delete" items on eBay. Did you mean the listing was ended? Did you use this evidence to dispute the claim?

Respectfully disagree with buyer's remorse.  Not my problem.  However the one time I did give in to buyer's remorse was when I did truly believe that the guy's son bought the item and not him.  The guy wanted to work something out.  He told his son he could buy something but was unaware of the cost. For once, I believe the buyer in a case like this. 

I absolutely agree with you that fighting fraud is worth it.  Fight tooth and nail.  It is worth the hassle as I figure I can spend 10-20 minutes on speakerphone while I am at my computer doing some work anyway.  This way the buyer has no incentive to try it again with the next guy.  I checked and saw that someone that I fought is no longer a registered eBay user.  

As far as snotty. heh depends on the mood.  

[ExNihilo]

3 hours ago, JaySlim said:

  Buyers name was :  dwightfactor         just fyi be cautious if this guy wants buy a book off you.

You should post this in the Blocked eBay user thread.

[Buzzetta]

dwightfactor is now added to the list...