MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[@therealsilvermane]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:15 AM, fantastic_four said:

As Buzzetta just said they did exactly this in 2008 with that post-credits scene in Iron Man that took five years to come to fruition.  Given how that led to the greatest box office success in film history I give the odds that they try a long build-up again good enough to bet at least a few bills on.

There's absolutely no way that Feige does an Eternals movie without tying it to the X-Men when that's the entire origin when Kirby created them.  The Celestials and Eternals were Kirby's ret-con to explain how evolution could ever lead to superpowers in mutants.

If Marvel Studios does go with the Celestials and the Deviant gene as the genesis of mutants in the MCU, I think the introduction of Celestials by itself in the Eternals movie would be enough of a "set up" for the X-Men without directly referring to X-Men or even just mutantkind. When Marvel Studios is ready to unleash mutantkind in the MCU, Professor X or Apocalypse or whomever can explain away, based on their research, that the X-gene has its origins from a deviant gene possibly introduced from these Celestial beings or whatever.

[fantastic_four]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:32 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

If Marvel Studios does go with the Celestials and the Deviant gene as the genesis of mutants in the MCU, I think the introduction of Celestials by itself in the Eternals movie would be enough of a "set up" for the X-Men without directly referring to X-Men or even just mutantkind. When Marvel Studios is ready to unleash mutantkind in the MCU, Professor X or Apocalypse or whomever can explain away, based on their research, that the X-gene has its origins from a deviant gene possibly introduced from these Celestial beings or whatever.

They could definitely go that route.  What would almost exactly mirror the lead-up to the Avengers, however, is for the Eternals post-credit scenes to somehow directly reference the X-Men.  In Iron Man they did that with Nick Fury appearing for the first time and telling Stark he was there to talk to him about the Avengers Initiative.  The sky's the limit on what they could do in an Eternals post-credits scene, but I'd be shocked if the Eternals post-credits scenes don't reference mutants in any way.

[fantastic_four]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:15 AM, valiantman said:

Hopefully, we'll at least get an answer to "what/who was Knowhere?"  We know it's the head of a Celestial, we know it's dead, and its been in at least two movies.  Eternals ties into the MCU, as we have already known it, if they spend a minute to explain Knowhere.

I bet there's at least some passing reference to it at some point during the film.

[fantastic_four]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:04 AM, valiantman said:

The best "screen shot" from Eternals that I've seen so far is from still from Guardians of the Galaxy. 

 Which Celestial is that?  I've seen him before, but I still haven't read enough stories to remember any of their names.

[valiantman]

On 8/18/2021 at 10:46 AM, fantastic_four said:

On 8/18/2021 at 10:04 AM, valiantman said:

The best "screen shot" from Eternals that I've seen so far is from still from Guardians of the Galaxy. 

Expand  

 Which Celestial is that?  I've seen him before, but I still haven't read enough stories to remember any of their names.

Eson the Searcher

[Gatsby77]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:15 AM, fantastic_four said:

There's absolutely no way that Feige does an Eternals movie without tying it to the X-Men when that's the entire origin when Kirby created them.  The Celestials and Eternals were Kirby's ret-con to explain how evolution could ever lead to superpowers in mutants.

Agree 100%.

And introducing the idea of mutants in no way negates the importance of the Eternals as a team moving forward.

I think Black Knight speculators will be disappointed, because I think we’ll see only Dane Whitman in this film. If the early bootleg -script is accurate - we’ll get only a mid- / post-credit sequence where he gets his sword / assumes the mantle.

But - maybe I’m wrong, and we’ll actually see him when the next trailer drops tomorrow.

 

[fantastic_four]

On 8/18/2021 at 10:55 AM, Buzzetta said:

On 8/18/2021 at 10:47 AM, fantastic_four said:

It won't, it will push the narrative towards the X-Men.  Which is what Kirby had in mind himself when he created the Celestials back in the 1970s.

My guess is that Feige's crew have had Eternals on the creative burner for years just waiting for whenever they were able to re-obtain the rights to the X-Men.  We got the Eternals announcement in April 2018, and by then the Fox deal was well on the way to being reality.

Now it has my interest.

Also let me see if I can expand that interest.

Stan Lee's idea of the X-Men is that evolution goes off in random directions guided by natural selection, so why couldn't it lead to mutants?  There's an easy scientific answer to why it couldn't--evolution is extremely gradual, so the idea that we go from an unpowered human to Cyclops, or Magneto, or pick your favorite mutant doesn't jibe with the way evolution has worked everywhere we've observed it.  Something like wings took millions of years and trillions upon trillions of slightly-mutated births to evolve; they didn't just magically show up in a single newborn.  The kind of big evolutionary leap to get to superpowered humans is complete fantasy with only the loosest connection to evolutionary science.  Not to mention the leap needed in basic biochemistry to actually provide MANY orders of magnitude of energy provided to life on Earth by cellular mitochondria to power something like optic blasts or lifting a bridge with magnetism.  Mutants aren't just a giant leap forward, they HAVE to be an entirely different form of life than anything currently here.

All of that irked Kirby, so he decided to go all the way with the fantasy by imagining that some advanced civilization seeded mutant DNA on Earth to explain where mutants could have come from naturally.  That's the Celestials; they intentionally introduced what later Marvel authors called the X-gene into humanity.

But Kirby liked the ret-con enough to expand it into its own book completely separate from the X-Men by having the Celestials seed multiple strands of DNA into the worlds they visited.  That's the Eternals, and the Deviants are their counterparts.

Edited August 18, 2021 by fantastic_four

[@therealsilvermane]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:37 PM, fantastic_four said:

Also let me see if I can expand that interest.

Stan Lee's idea of the X-Men is that evolution goes off in random directions, so why couldn't it lead to mutants?  There's an easy scientific answer to why it couldn't--evolution is extremely gradual, so the idea that we go from an unpowered human to Cyclops, or Magneto, or pick your favorite mutant doesn't jibe with the way evolution has worked everywhere we've observed it.  The kind of big evolutionary leap to get to superpowered humans is complete fantasy with only the loosest connection to evolutionary science.  Not to mention the leap needed in basic biochemistry to actually provide MANY orders of magnitude of energy provided to life on Earth by cellular mitochondria to power something like optic blasts or lifting a bridge with magnetism.  Mutants aren't just a giant leap forward, they HAVE to be an entirely different form of life than anything currently here.

All of that irked Kirby, so he decided to go all the way with the fantasy by imagining that some advanced civilization seeded mutant DNA on Earth to explain where mutants could have come from naturally.  That's the Celestials; they intentionally introduced what later Marvel authors called the X-gene into humanity.

But Kirby liked the ret-con enough to expand it into its own book completely separate from the X-Men by having the Celestials seed multiple strands of DNA into the worlds they visited.  That's the Eternals, and the Deviants are their counterparts.

I seem to remember Stan Lee's original ideas of the origins of mutants in Marvel Comics is that they are "children of the atomic age" as in the 20th century advancements in atomic science, and more directly, radiation, causing the mutation in some members of the human race. You saw this directly in the Silver Surfer story in SS #6, "Worlds Without End" in which the Overlord, the mutant who ended up ruling the universe in the future, is a mutant because his father worked in the field of atomic science.

[fantastic_four]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:46 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I seem to remember Stan Lee's original ideas of the origins of mutants in Marvel Comics is that they are "children of the atomic age" as in the 20th century advancements in atomic science, and more directly, radiation, causing the mutation in some members of the human race. You saw this directly in the Silver Surfer story in SS #6, "Worlds Without End" in which the Overlord, the mutant who ended up ruling the universe in the future, is a mutant because his father worked in the field of atomic science.

Maybe he and Kirby talked about a better origin for mutants over the course of several years.  Silver Surfer #6 is five years after the X-Men started in 1964.  Stan also amended his ideas about natural evolution leading to mutants a bit when he created High Evolutionary in Thor 133 and 134 in 1966 and ret-conned Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver into being mutates created by him instead of natural mutants.

You could choose Celestials or High Evolutionary as the source of human mutation and it's better than the idea of the X-Men just naturally evolving, but certainly the idea of an ancient civilization like the Celestials is the most viable and well-developed of the two possible sources of the X-Men's superpowers.  They're both better than giving the X-Men the same origin as Godzilla--which preceded the X-Men since he became world-famous in the 1950s--which is that radiation just magically altered DNA into something amazing.

Edited August 18, 2021 by fantastic_four

[@therealsilvermane]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:56 PM, fantastic_four said:

Maybe he and Kirby talked about a better origin for mutants over the course of several years.  Silver Surfer #6 is five years after the X-Men started in 1964.  Stan also amended his ideas about natural evolution leading to mutants a bit when he created High Evolutionary in Thor 133 and 134 in 1966 and ret-conned Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver into being mutates created by him instead of natural mutants.

You could choose Celestials or High Evolutionary as the source of human mutation and it's better than the idea of the X-Men just naturally evolving, but certainly the idea of an ancient civilization like the Celestials is the most viable and well-developed of the two possible sources of the X-Men's superpowers.  They're both better than giving the X-Men the same origin as Godzilla--which preceded the X-Men since he became world-famous in the 1950s--which is that radiation just magically altered DNA into something amazing.

If you look back at those legacy Marvel characters of the early 60's created by Stan, Jack, and Steve, many of them had their origins in direct atomic radiation mutation, including the Fantastic Four, Hulk, Spider-Man, and Daredevil.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:13 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Agree 100%.

And introducing the idea of mutants in no way negates the importance of the Eternals as a team moving forward.

I think Black Knight speculators will be disappointed, because I think we’ll see only Dane Whitman in this film. If the early bootleg --script is accurate - we’ll get only a mid- / post-credit sequence where he gets his sword / assumes the mantle.

But - maybe I’m wrong, and we’ll actually see him when the next trailer drops tomorrow.

 

A new Eternals trailer drops tomorrow? Cool. However, it seems to me it'd be wiser to release a new Eternals trailer with the Shang-Chi movie, but whatever.

[HighVoltage]

On 8/18/2021 at 9:51 AM, valiantman said:

Eson the Searcher

Oneg The Prober is the most feared Celestial...

[TupennyConan]

On 8/18/2021 at 1:35 PM, HighVoltage said:

Oneg The Prober is the most feared Celestial...

Or most popular. 

[HighVoltage]

On 8/18/2021 at 11:40 AM, TupennyConan said:

Or most popular. 

Maybe both?

[fantastic_four]

On 8/18/2021 at 1:35 PM, HighVoltage said:

On 8/18/2021 at 11:51 AM, valiantman said:

Eson the Searcher

Oneg The Prober is the most feared Celestial...

Or the most desirable, if you're into that kind of thing.  

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/18/2021 at 1:35 PM, HighVoltage said:

Oneg The Prober is the most feared Celestial...

Of course "The Prober" is wearing a pink gimp suit...

[D84]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:48 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Of course "The Prober" is wearing a pink gimp suit...

[Larryw7]

On 8/18/2021 at 10:10 AM, TupennyConan said:

I've never seen so many covers. This means this movie will be great & smell greater, all coked-up & drenched in Chanel.

There will be Chanel samples inside the magazine.

[D84]

On 8/18/2021 at 6:03 PM, Larryw7 said:

There will be Chanel samples inside the magazine.

I'm gonna have to check. If there are, I'm buying it.

[fantastic_four]

Every trailer before this one has been meh, but this one is pretty far from those.  I'm actually excited about this movie now.