Michael Browning Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 On 7/30/2019 at 1:15 PM, wincen said: I can fully understand why there may be quite a few people out there who like to read the threads but don't want to participate, given some of the replies and posts made... As the OP I did ask the questions because I genuinely didn't think it was that bad... it's not like I want to add colour or change the art etc... 1. It bugs me that art I own and see every day has a dedication to someone else - so I thought it might be preferable to cover it up discreetly and without ruining the artwork. This seems to be a No-no and OK I accept that. 2. Shaving off some of the paper - it is of course not about the cost of a new portfolio - as far as I know there isn't one with a width of 11.5 inches. To me the pieces I am referring to would still slip around in a 13" as much as a 14" one. Obviously that doesn't bug some people as much as it does me... Can you post a list of art you own so that we know what art you might be trimming or altering? timguerrero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastaar Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Here is an example I will ask the board. I would never alter interior/cover CB OA, but I bought this Ron Frenz DC Promotional 11x17 sketch. It is done completely in pencil. It would look much better without the specs and date. Would it be bad form to erase them and just have his signature with the sketch? Catwoman_Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andahaion Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 You should go Rauschenberg and erase the whole thing. Twanj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOStateSuperman Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Blastaar said: Here is an example I will ask the board. I would never alter interior/cover CB OA, but I bought this Ron Frenz DC Promotional 11x17 sketch. It is done completely in pencil. It would look much better without the specs and date. Would it be bad form to erase them and just have his signature with the sketch? If I were buying (either as the original buyer or buying from you) I would prefer to have it left there. It adds history to the art - without the specs and date, it's just another (good) GL commission. Twanj, Blastaar, timguerrero and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aokartman Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 2 hours ago, MOStateSuperman said: If I were buying (either as the original buyer or buying from you) I would prefer to have it left there. It adds history to the art - without the specs and date, it's just another (good) GL commission. As a piece of production art, the notations do not hurt the value, and if you remove the notations for personal reasons, make a note on the back for the next caretaker of the art. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 6 hours ago, Andahaion said: You should go Rauschenberg and erase the whole thing. Frame it white side out and call it post-modern. Andahaion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESeffinga Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 (edited) I’d like to think I’m pretty much in the, you never alter art camp. That said, IMO there are cases where I personally say “who cares?” Should someone cut off the edge of an 11.25”x16.875” artboard to fit their 11”x17” portfolio? To me it really depends on what it is. Is it a historically important page? Something tells me if someone spent 4 figures + on a page, they are already thinking twice before cutting away. The very fact that someone thinks twice means they know it’s not cool. If modern artist Z does all his work on that odd size board and the owner trims their page of it, well some buyers will wanna know and/or care. Others will be more worried about what the content of the art on that altered page is, and buy accordingly or not. But it is altered. Irrevocably. The end. On the other hand, if let’s say Ron Frenz draws Green Lantern on a sheet of art board you brought to the con for commissions. If you wanna trim that down, IMO it is what it is. Same with removing a sig or location, or whatever. If Ron only ever drew GL the one time, I can see an argument for preserving provenance/history for posterity I guess. But if he’s drawn dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of them over his career, at the end of the day who gives 1/4 of a poo? A mythical Ron Frenz GL sketch historian 80 years in the future wanted to preserve all GL correspondence by the guy who saved the planet from its eventual extinction level event by drawing GL, or? I imagine Sink has drawn Elektra about as much as any man could. Some are better than others by miles. That matters to me, if I’m into Sienkiewicz Elektra. The year maybe interesting (how close to when he was actually working on a comic run) What doesn’t really matter to me. He drew this one “For Carl” on Saturday at the ‘99 D’Con. Or for Phil in ‘91 at CinciCon, or Jeff at SDCC on 2012. He had drawn them countless times. Like Timm and Batman/Joker/Harley. Countless artist’s Batman head sketches... unless it is a very rare occurrence, I see less need to white glove it like it’s going in the national archives. In the end it is pointless filler totems for those of us that can’t afford or obtain the truly important work. And IMO it’s fine to treat them as such. Just using one’s common sense. And if people truly lack common sense, or question the action... just leave well enough alone. Though IMO, anyone anal retentive enough to be into comic collecting and the rules and importance of condition, and it’s impact to relative value and history is smart enough to know when to not mess with something. And recognize what the Donnelly’s seem to regularly do is not cool. But if you want to erase “For Tom ChiCon -88” from your GI Joe meets Fish Police commission by Matt Wagner, even though it might be the only one in the world, I won’t say anything. Everything in its place, and a place for everything. Edited August 3, 2019 by ESeffinga Rick2you2 and timguerrero 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Is it OK if I white out someone else's personalization and then write in my own name? What if I have the original artist do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESeffinga Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Jokes aside. That just seems like a strange thing to do. It’s like those kids that peeled stickers off their Toys R Us Huffy bikes to stick GT or Dyno stickers on them. You might fool a few folks that don’t know what they are looking at. But the most important person (you) knows the truth. So not fooling anyone important, after all. Erase if they like, but they’ll know what they did. Even if it’s not physically there. Thats what I’d think, every time I looked at it. I erased “blah blah blah”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 25 minutes ago, ESeffinga said: It’s like those kids that peeled stickers off their Toys R Us Huffy bikes to stick GT or Dyno stickers on them. Oh bummer Eric, I got a Torker for Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESeffinga Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Here’s a short legal article on the legalities of art alteration, mutilation post-1990... https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-buyers-of-art-destroy-it.html?fbclid=IwAR1RzczWBzADNcP6hRRrtq5xYpy3v8B0CrY0ceXNgq1lcW35y1QPcAx5NwA timguerrero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 42 minutes ago, ESeffinga said: ...legalities of art alteration Oh Eric...as long as we keep the A+++ $$$ hierarchy in place, it's collectibles not art Sal Buscema rulez! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) On 7/30/2019 at 1:15 PM, wincen said: I can fully understand why there may be quite a few people out there who like to read the threads but don't want to participate, given some of the replies and posts made... As the OP I did ask the questions because I genuinely didn't think it was that bad... it's not like I want to add colour or change the art etc... 1. It bugs me that art I own and see every day has a dedication to someone else - so I thought it might be preferable to cover it up discreetly and without ruining the artwork. This seems to be a No-no and OK I accept that. 2. Shaving off some of the paper - it is of course not about the cost of a new portfolio - as far as I know there isn't one with a width of 11.5 inches. To me the pieces I am referring to would still slip around in a 13" as much as a 14" one. Obviously that doesn't bug some people as much as it does me... You'll never be able to cover up anything "discretely". You'll be left with an ugly patch of white (or whatever) which will be more obtrusive than any dedication. Edited August 10, 2019 by pemart1966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timguerrero Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 On 7/28/2019 at 12:27 PM, MagnusX said: This piece is not mine (I wish) but I REALLY LOVE the cover. What it kills me is that the cover and back cover are done in a single page. I am not going to buy it (out my price range) but if I did I will love to cut it and separate the back cover... I have a piece of OA that is from 3 comics and I would never, ever think about cutting it up to the 3 different covers. Then again I would never even think of shaving a piece of paper from a published piece of OA or erasing a dedication. To me it is part of the history of the piece. The first years of collecting OA I asked for dedications on the pieces I purchased directly from an artist but currently I have ceased that. I am, however, getting as many people that worked on a particular comic to sign any OA from said comic. Michael Browning 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timguerrero Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 On 7/29/2019 at 10:07 AM, stinkininkin said: Different strokes I guess. I've had numerous occasions when my art rep Albert Moy has told me that he can't sell the original until it's signed. He's had customers where a condition of sale is a separate signature. This includes COVERS which are ALREADY SIGNED in the field of art and published with said signature showing! Essentially, the cover art now has TWO signatures. I know. I just scratch my head and sign the art. In the case of two signatures I have had pieces that were already signed by the artist signed again to authenticate it as an original and not a fake. I know it may sound weird but I also took photographs of them signing said art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeGiant Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 On 8/2/2019 at 2:11 PM, Blastaar said: Here is an example I will ask the board. I would never alter interior/cover CB OA, but I bought this Ron Frenz DC Promotional 11x17 sketch. It is done completely in pencil. It would look much better without the specs and date. Would it be bad form to erase them and just have his signature with the sketch? I would leave it. Takes nothing away from the piece in my perspective. Also, if you erased it, there would be trace of the original pencile, even if slight, and that would be more bothersome than to just leave the commission as it was originally done. ... my 02, YMMV Blastaar and delekkerste 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Chamberlain Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Leave it. It is a part of the history and origin of the piece. delekkerste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastaar Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Was looking at this one on ebay, liked it, and then noticed the white out of the message from the artist in the right bottom corner. That's a lot of white out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeGiant Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 40 minutes ago, Blastaar said: Was looking at this one on ebay, liked it, and then noticed the white out of the message from the artist in the right bottom corner. That's a lot of white out! In this example, I don't see this as an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aokartman Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Before I joined this forum, I created title and price box replacements for this Judge Dredd cover by Larson and de la Rosa. They are homemade, and just lightly tacked on, but I would never do such a thing today. David MagnusX 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...