MCU's Phase 5 rumors
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284 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

That's not it! But I appreciate you trying.

WHAT IS CHINA’S ARGUMENT ON TIBET?

Tibet was taken over by China in the 1950's, I believe. Any mention of Tibet in a positive way is deemed offensive to the Chinese government. So in this case, Disney changed the character heritage and lore so as to ensure it landed a positive response in the region. It had nothing to do about a 'tired stereotype'. Kind of like with WB using Katana in Suicide Squad. The Japanese Rising Sun design is offensive to Chinese leaders because of the war atrocities of WW II when Japanese forces invaded their lands. So having her appear with that symbol partly killed playing that film across the Mainland.

Kamar-Taj is a fictional place in the Marvel Universe and and isn't really Tibet or Nepal but is in the Himalayan Mountains. Also...

69959084_ancientone.thumb.PNG.44b7875651088a5cb56c4476160381d7.PNG

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On 9/16/2019 at 8:44 PM, Xenosmilus said:

https://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-2-villain-nightmare-casting-actor/

I don't know the character Nightmare too well.  What are your guys fan casting choices for him?

Benicio Del Toro would have made a nice Nightmare, but unfortunately he's already cast as the throwaway character, The Collector. Although he was pretty good in Endgame and Thanos parodying his lines "The stone. Wheere is iiit?" from Snatch was a nice touch.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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28 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Kamar-Taj is a fictional place in the Marvel Universe and and isn't really Tibet or Nepal but is in the Himalayan Mountains. Also...

69959084_ancientone.thumb.PNG.44b7875651088a5cb56c4476160381d7.PNG

I get it you can't admit you were woke-blind with that statement, assuming the change was made to modernize a character. The writer actually stated the real details which the director and Feige then tried to explain it away.

This was a move to capture Chinese market share. Sorry if that disrupts your 'perfect MCU' narrative.

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7 hours ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Any character can be any race and any gender. Said character will be accepted if s/he is portrayed well and/or within a good story. Black Panther is and was. Captain Marvel isn't and wasn't.

And I'll argue (of course) that while Black Panther had more at stake and thus was a very strong drama (arguably the strongest MCU dramatic story yet), Captain Marvel had a tighter story and a better traditional three act plot structure. Black Panther's story was sprawling and all over the place, dragged a bit in the S. Korea sequence. Captain Marvel's story was tight and efficient. She had one mission, to stop the Skrulls, and along the way, finds something more important. Pretty simple. And simple is best.

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20 minutes ago, vheflin said:

How about an R-rated Howard the Duck?  Two hours of drinking, profanity, womanizing, cigar smoking and general bad behavior.  Like Bad Santa but with a CGI duck.

I would get in line to see that.:bigsmile:

 

Howard can goto college and invade peoples "safe space" :roflmao:

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7 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

...Captain Marvel's story was tight and efficient. She had one mission, to stop the Skrulls, and along the way, finds something more important. Pretty simple. And simple is best.

Almost nothing in Captain Marvel is "tight" (if it wasn't for stunt-doubles her suit would be quite loose on the back-end ;)) or "efficient". It's simple - I'll give you that. Simplicity, late-game, in a complex cinematic universe? Didn't add to the big picture. Her simple, dull, MacGuffin-powered character sucks. Had they actually made a complex character with development, it may have been well-received.

Characters like Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel are no good for great storytelling. Maybe they can kill each other off in the future. Compelling characters need weaknesses.

An example of "efficient" visual storytelling: In Iron Man - his Mark II test flight exemplifies a weakness in the armor's initial design(s) that ultimately helps him defeat Iron Monger. A cool piece of showing-off that influences Act 3 by way of experience rather than assumption.

For whatever reason, Marvel has choked (so far) at any opportunity to make a compelling physically/specialty-powerful character. Jane Foster ain't gonna break that mold, either, sadly.

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“The Ancient One was a racist stereotype who comes from a region of the world that is in a very weird political place. He originates from Tibet, so if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he’s Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people.”

 

He added that there was the risk of “the Chinese government going, ‘Hey, you know one of the biggest film-watching countries in the world? We’re not going to show your movie because you decided to get political.’ ”

17:50 to 22:00 he goes from saying it is racist to then stating it was political - but heavily focuses on the political how the Chinese government doesn't want Tibet referenced or else Disney would risk losing this market.

I guess it wasn't racists with Netflix's Iron Fist when Danny learns his fighting style from a Shaolin monastery like something straight out of the Kung Fu TV show (1972 vs Marvel Premiere #15 in 1974). K'un-Lun is a reference to the Kunlun Mountains, from the Tibetan Plateau. But I guess because it is that obscure, it wasn't that racists or political - or because no box office market had to be worried about with a TV show.

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On 9/17/2019 at 6:01 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Almost nothing in Captain Marvel is "tight" (if it wasn't for stunt-doubles her suit would be quite loose on the back-end ;)) or "efficient". It's simple - I'll give you that. Simplicity, late-game, in a complex cinematic universe? Didn't add to the big picture. Her simple, dull, MacGuffin-powered character sucks. Had they actually made a complex character with development, it may have been well-received.

Characters like Scarlet Witch and Captain Marvel are no good for great storytelling. Maybe they can kill each other off in the future. Compelling characters need weaknesses.

An example of "efficient" visual storytelling: In Iron Man - his Mark II test flight exemplifies a weakness in the armor's initial design(s) that ultimately helps him defeat Iron Monger. A cool piece of showing-off that influences Act 3 by way of experience rather than assumption.

For whatever reason, Marvel has choked (so far) at any opportunity to make a compelling physically/specialty-powerful character. Jane Foster ain't gonna break that mold, either, sadly.

Character strengths and flaws/weaknesses can be more than just skin deep, particularly in the MCU. 

Beyond the Iron suit, Tony Stark's true strength is his technical genius and in some ways his flaw. His tech is what breeds Iron Monger in the first movie. His desire to create a suit of armor around the world breeds Ultron. (By Endgame, it can be argued that Stark's tech genius powers became too powerful, which also could arguably be a metaphor for practically every powered MCU hero)

Beyond the Super Soldier strength, Steve Rogers true strength is his heart, and also a weakness. Rogers' heart and the serum combined to create Captain America. It simply compounded what was already in Steve. That heart is what helps lead Bucky to redemption at the end of Winter Soldier. His heart is what makes him worthy to wield Mjolnir. At the same time, that purity of heart leads to the Avengers division in Civil War (in addition to Zemo's phantom menace) and his refusal to fight Bucky and take a pounding in Winter Soldier.

In Captain Marvel, beyond being transformed by Mar Vell's Kree core, Carol Danvers' true strength is her emotion as well as her weakness. That hot-headedness is what leads her to stray from Kree orders and become a fish out of water (or rather, back in to water) on Earth. (though, as the movie didn't go as deep dramatically as Winter Soldier, the storytellers focused more on Carol's amnesia as a weakness which helped inhibit her powers, along with the Kree inhibitor device) At the movie's end, it's Carol's emotional ties to Earth, her best friend, and sudden feels for Talos and his family that helps her overcome the Kree Supreme Intelligence. 

I'm speculating that Carol's emotional strength (and weakness) will come into play even more in her sequel. If the rumors of Korvac are to be believed, that Carol develops an emotional relationship with him and is then betrayed, then, well, there you are. And the possible future ramifications could be intriguing. I'm speculating on a combination of Annihilation and the Korvac Saga as the next great MCU threat. And that could put our emotional Carol Danvers right in the middle of it.

Anyway, that's my bit on that.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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On 9/17/2019 at 6:45 AM, Bosco685 said:

17:50 to 22:00 he goes from saying it is racist to then stating it was political - but heavily focuses on the political how the Chinese government doesn't want Tibet referenced or else Disney would risk losing this market.

I guess it wasn't racists with Netflix's Iron Fist when Danny learns his fighting style from a Shaolin monastery like something straight out of the Kung Fu TV show (1972 vs Marvel Premiere #15 in 1974). K'un-Lun is a reference to the Kunlun Mountains, from the Tibetan Plateau. But I guess because it is that obscure, it wasn't that racists or political - or because no box office market had to be worried about with a TV show.

Maybe it's a bit of both. Writers tend to be deeper thinkers than directors and producers.

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2 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

In Captain Marvel, beyond being transformed by Mar Vell's Kree core, Carol Danvers' true strength is her emotion. That hot-headedness is what leads her to stray from Kree orders and become a fish out of water (or rather, back in to water) on Earth. As the movie didn't go as deep dramatically as Winter Soldier, the storytellers focused more on Carol's amnesia as a weakness which helped inhibit her powers, along with the Kree inhibitor. At the movie's end, it's Carol's emotional ties to Earth, her best friend, and sudden emotion for Talos and his family that helps her overcome the Kree Supreme Intelligence...

Lol what emotion...? Curiosity isn't an emotion. The "inhibitor" is one of the worst pieces of a story puzzle that I have ever seen in a movie. It's a highlight of a poorly-conceived crutch. There's no explanation of how it even operates. How can someone that powerful be limited by something that she already had the power to eliminate...? The entire thing is just a mess.

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14 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

Lol what emotion...? Curiosity isn't an emotion. The "inhibitor" is one of the worst pieces of a story puzzle that I have ever seen in a movie. It's a highlight of a poorly-conceived crutch. There's no explanation of how it even operates. How can someone that powerful be limited by something that she already had the power to eliminate...? The entire thing is just a mess.

And like character strength, emotion is more than skin deep. Emotion on film doesn't have to mean gnashing of teeth, buckets of tears, and snot coming out the nose. Yonn-Rogg constantly tells Vers to control her emotions. So, we see it in bits and flashes through the movie. The Supreme Intelligence appears as Mar Vell, someone who obviously meant a lot to Carol (in the comics, this new version of Mar Vell is even her mom). She jokes with Starforce until Yonn Rogg tells them to cool it. As she realizes she may have had a past life on Earth and begins to connect Dr Lawson with her image of the Supreme Intelligence, she gets emotional with Yonn Rogg on the telephone. We do see her cry as memories of the past life flood her after listening to the Black Box.  And that emotion for others (particularly for her friends and newfound friendship with Talos and his family) leads her to switch sides in the movie's Kree-Skrull conflict.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

And like character strength, emotion is more than skin deep. Emotion on film doesn't have to mean gnashing of teeth, buckets of tears, and snot coming out the nose. Yonn-Rogg constantly tells Vers to control her emotions. So, we see it in bits and flashes through the movie. The Supreme Intelligence appears as Mar Vell, someone who obviously meant a lot to Carol (in the comics, this new version of Mar Vell is even her mom). She jokes with Starforce until Yonn Rogg tells them to cool it. As she realizes she may have had a past life on Earth and begins to connect Dr Lawson with her image of the Supreme Intelligence, she gets emotional with Yonn Rogg on the telephone. We do see her cry as memories of the past life flood her after listening to the Black Box.  And that emotion for others (particularly for her friends and newfound friendship with Talos and his family) leads her to switch sides in the movie's Kree-Skrull conflict.

I get the feeling that, again, you don't understand what this means (just like Mary Sues and MacGuffins).

Captain Marvel is a (very) flawed movie. No movie is perfect.

Aside from the movie itself, Brie Larson conveys close-to literally no emotion.

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32 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

The "inhibitor" is one of the worst pieces of a story puzzle that I have ever seen in a movie. It's a highlight of a poorly-conceived crutch. There's no explanation of how it even operates. How can someone that powerful be limited by something that she already had the power to eliminate...?

The inhibitor is just a material piece of of Carol's amnesia. Granted, Carol Danvers doesn't have the advantage of a neatly told origin story of Iron Man or Captain America or Hulk as written by Stan Lee from the comics. It came in pieces and parts over decades as written by Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway, Chris Claremont, Kelly Sue Deconnick, and others. And amnesia was always a central part of those stories, or at least an explanation of how things worked for Carol, from her 10 year absence from 1969 to Ms Marvel #1, or her disappearance into another dimension before her reappearance in Avengers Annual #10, or the Brood reawakening her powers as Binary in X-Men #164. And similarly, amnesia was a key component to Carol's weakness in the Captain Marvel movie.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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24 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Maybe it's a bit of both. Writers tend to be deeper thinkers than directors and producers.

Maybe. You had implied it was just due to altruistic reasons, which is not the case. Maintaining a large China market has been a massive push for Disney since Iron Man 3 when it spent extra on production and marketing. And it paid off.

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6 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

The inhibitor is just a material piece of of Carol's amnesia. Granted, Carol Danvers doesn't have the advantage of a neatly told origin story of Iron Man or Captain America or Hulk as written by Stan Lee from the comics. It came in pieces and parts over decades as written by Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway, Chris Claremont, Kelly Sue Deconnick, and others. And amnesia was always a central part of those stories, or at least an explanation of how things worked for Carol, from her 10 year absence from 1969 to Ms Marvel #1, or her disappearance into another dimension before her reappearance in Avengers Annual #10, or the Brood reawakening her powers as Binary in X-Men #163. And similarly, amnesia was a key component to Carol's weakness in the Captain Marvel movie.

The Photon Inhibitor has nothing to do with amnesia, so...

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3 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

The Photon Inhibitor has nothing to do with amnesia, so...

Okay, technically, the Kree Inhibitor didn't use amnesia, but the Kree needed Carol to not remember who she was in order to maintain control over her as well with the Inhibitor. That amnesia is what keeps Carol subservient to Kree authority and not question what they tell her, except when her hot-headedness comes through and she questions it at moments. So the Inhibitor worked with Carol's amnesia to allow the Kree to control her. And in that way, the Inhibitor is simply a MacGuffin-like tool of the more important story element of Carol's amnesia.

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