Shilling 0

[Aweandlorder]

1 hour ago, kav said:

 

He posted the incident casually in another thread and was surprised when others went after him a bit.  It confirms that he did not "think it might be unethical, but did it anyway".

Personally I have no issue with the practice.  I figure he didnt need to do it tho as sellers get loballs all the time anyway and this doesnt seem to prompt them to just sell.

How is it that youre not a mod yet?

[THE_BEYONDER]

52 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

 

I thought it was savvy 

Figured that’s why you posted this thread....

[Badger]

6 hours ago, ThothAmon said:

Me too, but I am familiar with a well known comic art dealer admitting he'd been doing it for years.  A thread somewhere on it a couple years back.

Uhhh.  I think they can now.

This is lifted directly from Heritage's Terms of Service. Shill bidding is legal in Texas.

21. The Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees consign items to be sold in the Auction, and may bid on those lots or any other lots. Auctioneer or affiliates expressly reserve the right to modify any such bids at any time prior to the hammer based upon data made known to the Auctioneer or its affiliates. The Auctioneer may extend advances, guarantees, or loans to certain consignors.

 

Full Terms and Conditions at Heritage's site

[the blob]

1 hour ago, jcjames said:

Collusion: "secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others."

Okay:

 

You colluded.

Questions?

 

Okay onto your second statement: "The manner in question is how I went about showing the seller how fair my deal was."

How you went about it was by collusion. You got a "friend" (unbeknownst to the seller) to make an offer lower than yours in the hopes that the seller would think yours is a better offer. IOW, you arranged a "secret cooperation in order to deceive" the seller.

You can rationalize all you want, but you were surreptitiously and dishonestly trying to inflate the appearance of your offer to the seller by intentionally colluding with another to put in an offer even lower than yours just to make your offer look better.

Collusion. 

 

Legal dictionary definition:

Collusion. An agreement between two or more people to defraud a person of his or her rights or to obtain something that is prohibited by law. A secret arrangement wherein two or more people whose legal interests seemingly conflict conspire to commit Fraud upon another person; a pact between two people to deceive a court with the purpose of obtaining something that they would not be able to get ...

So I don't think what he did meets any of that even if it is shady

Webster:

Collusion definition is - secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose.

How is this deceitful? Two offers were made. Sure the lower one is there to make the higher one look better, but where is the deceit? Hollywood thinks his high offer is a good offer.

 

 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

2 hours ago, GACollectibles said:

But would you let him park there?

@Park

[the blob]

49 minutes ago, jcjames said:

"secret or illegal..." 

I don't believe collusion or even outright shilling on feebay is actually "illegal", but shilling along with collusion are both unethical practices at best.  

 

"Shill bidding has resulted in criminal prosecutions in New York State under the Donnelly Act.  The Donnelly Act, found in New York’s General Business law Code section 340-347, is an antitrust law that prohibits bid rigging and price fixing. The Donnelly Act has been used by prosecutors against people accused of shill bidding in online auctions. Being charged under this Act can result in a maximum four year prison sentence, and a fine of $100,000 for individuals and $1 million for businesses.

Shill bidding may also be considered a form of wire fraud, which is a federal offense under 18 U.S. Code Section 1343.  Maximum penalties for the crime of wire fraud can include two decades imprisonment."

I will assume this does not apply in all scenarios.

[kav]

48 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

How is it that youre not a mod yet?

It makes no logical sense.

[ADAMANTIUM]

2 minutes ago, kav said:

51 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

How is it that youre not a mod yet?

It makes no logical sense.

Or are you?

[kav]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Or are you?

[ADAMANTIUM]

4 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

6 minutes ago, kav said:

55 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

How is it that youre not a mod yet?

It makes no logical sense.

Or are you?

Or just hear me out Do You?

2 minutes ago, kav said:

 

[kav]

Just now, ADAMANTIUM said:

Or just hear me out Do You?

 

This is not a sentence.

[ADAMANTIUM]

Just now, ADAMANTIUM said:

5 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

8 minutes ago, kav said:

57 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

How is it that youre not a mod yet?

It makes no logical sense.

Or are you?

Or just hear me out Do You?

4 minutes ago, kav said:

 

It's oooonly logical! 

[kav]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

It's oooonly logical! 

I am nothing if not logical.  This can be infuriating to others that react with emotion in an argument type situation  

[ADAMANTIUM]

2 minutes ago, kav said:

 

This is not a sentence.

Fo! Shill....zle!

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, kav said:

I am nothing if not logical.  This can be infuriating to others that react with emotion in an argument type situation  

What did you think about the option to up the views on the item yourself could sell to make it look like a hot item?

 

[kav]

Just now, ADAMANTIUM said:

What did you think about the option to up the views on the item yourself could sell to make it look like a hot item?

 

Mostly items get a lot of views because everyone is laffing about how dumb the price is like the superman cheeto this does not i repeat does not translate into $ale$

[kav]

Hot items just SELL.  And people go aw damn I missed it.  They do not just gape at it en masse.

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, kav said:

Hot items just SELL.  And people go aw damn I missed it.  They do not just gape at it en masse.

So my suggestion is as equally ridiculous as the offer them a lower price... 

I agree that I don't see how either works, other than intent

 

[kav]

1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

So my suggestion is as equally ridiculous as the offer them a lower price... 

I agree that I don't see how either works, other than intent

 

Neither of these strategies, nor claiming to be a disabled vet wounded while saving his entire platoon and now living by the side of the road collecting comics, seems to work.

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, kav said:

Neither of these strategies, nor claiming to be a disabled vet wounded while saving his entire platoon and now living by the side of the road collecting comics, seems to work.

I hear people's cats like to view my listings....