If Wolverine appeared in 2 panels of Hulk 180, then would it be his first appearance? 3 3

[MR SigS]

 

  

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

Even if covers somehow become irrelevant to demand, 181 will still have Wolverine throughout the book and relevant to the story, while 180 will still be only the single panel teaser. That is the reality of the content and why 181 has been the bigger book basically since people started caring about Wolverine.

I agree 100% the content in 181 is far more relevant and significant to the character, making it THE book to have to most collectors including me. I also feel the content in 180 contains his 1st appearance.

1 hour ago, Lazyboy said:

That's inaccurate because appearances (first or otherwise) are not all equal.

My point is if a description is not used when considering a 1st appearance, only one comic can be considered "The 1st Appearance of Wolverine [or?]". When people want to describe those appearances, that opens the door for other issues. That's just how I feel- I have both so if someday I ever have to sell, I should be okay in terms of value (if there's still value).

Unless the hobby considers previews the 1st appearance at that time

 

Edited November 27, 2019 by MR SigS
Sentence was finished.

[musicmeta]

On 11/25/2019 at 5:38 PM, kav said:

The point of this thread tho isn't why 181 is the first appearance but how many panels equals a first app/where is the line drawn.

one

[KryptoSpidey]

On 11/25/2019 at 4:09 PM, kav said:

The logic has always been "well he only appears in one panel so it's a cameo".  Ok what about 2 panels?  3? 6?  2 pages?  What's the cutoff point?

Im buying every high grade hulk 180 I can find.

You'll see. 😉🤗😂

[KryptoSpidey]

A cameo appearance in my mind is an AD page.

Specter next issue...ECT.

Not a story panel 

[Ken Aldred]

23 hours ago, Beige said:

 

Another one I had a problem with is 'out of comic continuity'

Rocket Raccoon - Marvel Preview #7 was notated, and then Hulk #271 'in comic continuity' (or similar) - I ended up getting both. 

You clearly see Rocket in MP #7 - but 4 or 5 panels only

 

I’ve never liked that version or first appearance of Rocket.  Too much of a clichéd, British upper class accent.

[Lazyboy]

11 minutes ago, MR SigS said:

My point is if a description is not used when considering a 1st appearance, only one comic can be considered "The 1st Appearance of Wolverine [or?]". When people want to describe those appearances, that opens the door for other issues.

Of course it does, because that's the whole point. Just like first appearance really means first story appearance (ads of various types need not apply), first full appearance means first full story appearance (quick pop-ups need not apply).

Batman has a first appearance. He's the feature character and appears throughout the story. No qualifiers necessary.

Wolverine has a first brief appearance in a one-panel teaser and a first full appearance where he's actually relevant to the story in that issue.

[Lazyboy]

32 minutes ago, KryptoSpidey said:

A cameo appearance in my mind is an AD page.

Specter next issue...ECT.

Not a story panel 

No, those are ads. Cameos are brief appearances of established characters in the story. None of which has anything to do with any first appearance.

[Lazyboy]

On 11/25/2019 at 3:24 PM, James J Johnson said:

I imagine that whatever criteria determines the distinction between the first Galactus appearance and the first full Galactus appearance would also govern the same criteria for Wolverine?

Galactus is quite different than Wolverine. For Fantastic Four 48, the entire issue was about him coming to Earth even if he wasn't actually seen until the end. Incredible Hulk 180 was about Hulk being in Canada and running into Wendigo, with Wolverine popping up out of nowhere at the end to join the fight.

 

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Galactus is quite different than Wolverine. For Fantastic Four 48, the entire issue was about him coming to Earth even if he wasn't actually seen until the end. Incredible Hulk 180 was about Hulk being in Canada and running into Wendigo, with Wolverine popping up out of nowhere at the end to join the fight.

 

It's a difficult issue to gauge (FF 48) the relative value proportionately to FF 49, 1st appearance vs. 1st full appearance because of FF 48 being a dual key issue of dual importance; the first Silver Surfer.

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, KryptoSpidey said:

A cameo appearance in my mind is an AD page.

Specter next issue...ECT.

Not a story panel 

Interesting point, and one for departure that an argument can certainly be made for.

[Lazyboy]

12 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

It's a difficult issue to gauge (FF 48) the relative value proportionately to FF 49, 1st appearance vs. 1st full appearance because of FF 48 being a dual key issue of dual importance; the first Silver Surfer.

Yes, but when discussing content, I'm not interested in values because they aren't relevant.

[Prince Namor]

12 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

It's a difficult issue to gauge (FF 48) the relative value proportionately to FF 49, 1st appearance vs. 1st full appearance because of FF 48 being a dual key issue of dual importance; the first Silver Surfer.

Really it's simple:

#48 is Galactus' first appearance. The issue is about him and he fully appears at the end of the story. This is the first part of a three part story and also features the first Silver Surfer. It SHOULD be the most sought after of the three.

#49 is the first full Galactus.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Chuck Gower

[Krismusic]

17 hours ago, KryptoSpidey said:

Im buying every high grade hulk 180 I can find.

You'll see. 😉🤗😂

too late on trying to cash in on the prices; over the past bit 180 has been rising in value as this debate between comic aficionados gains traction on both sides of the argument... I think some are trying to create value in 180

[James J Johnson]

5 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Really it's simple:

#48 is Galactus' first appearance. The issue is about him and he fully appears at the end of the story. This is the first part of a three part story and also features the first Silver Surfer. It SHOULD be the most sought after of the three.

#49 is the first full Galactus.

He doesn't look "full" to me in either issue. Not at the end of FF #48 nor throughout FF 49 in its entirety. In fact, he looks the opposite of full. He looks depleted. That's why he's here, right? If FF 49 was the first "full" Galactus, he would have showed up at the end of FF 48 and left one panel later, right? A "full" Galactus probably wouldn't have showed up at all, with the Surfer or without.   

[Prince Namor]

7 hours ago, Krismusic said:

too late on trying to cash in on the prices; over the past bit 180 has been rising in value as this debate between comic aficionados gains traction on both sides of the argument... I think some are trying to create value in 180

It was only natural for #180 to rise in price, as #181 became more and more unaffordable for the average collector. It's the actual first appearance and probably under valued for many years.

[Hollywood1892]

Why even have cameos and first appearances? It's like having labyrinths and mazes, choose one and be done with it.

[MR SigS]

5 hours ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Why even have cameos and first appearances? It's like having labyrinths and mazes, choose one and be done with it.

Personally I only classify it as 1st app, regardless of the "quality" of it. In my collection It either is or it is not the first time a character appears, is named, and becomes an entity within a storyline and "universe".

In my collection IH 180 = 1st Appearance, 181 = 1st Full Appearance, 182 = 1st Cameo (which, for me, doesn't mean anything).

[MGsimba77]

6 hours ago, MR SigS said:

In my collection IH 180 = 1st Appearance, 181 = 1st Full Appearance, 182 = 1st Cameo (which, for me, doesn't mean anything).

This makes sense. There can be a distinction between first appearance (whether you want to call it a cameo or not) and first full. It would be much better if everyone just had a nice and neat easy to identify clear first appearance in which they have a significant part in the story. That's not real life. Marvel wanted to sell comics so they teased him in 180 to sell more 181s. Most people may do the same if they were in the business of selling comics. 

IH 180 = first appearance 

IH 181 = first full appearance 

Btw, I don't think there's a universally recognized cut off point as to how many panels are required to determine full appearance. I wish there was!

Edited December 1, 2019 by MGsimba77

[MR SigS]

2 hours ago, MGsimba77 said:

Btw, I don't think there's a universally recognized cut off point as to how many panels are required to determine full appearance. I wish there was!

CGC consider X-Men Annual #14 a Gambit cameo. All what, 14, 15 panels? 

So, at least 16 panels  

Edited December 1, 2019 by MR SigS

[Lazyboy]

7 minutes ago, MR SigS said:

CGC consider X-Men Annual #14 a Gambit cameo. All what, 14, 15 panels? 

So, at least 16 panels  

He's (somewhat) relevant on 1 of the 38 pages. But he sure does a good job standing around and scratching his butt (probably why he wears that overcoat ) in a few more panels!