If Wolverine appeared in 2 panels of Hulk 180, then would it be his first appearance? 3 3

[valiantman]

7 minutes ago, Venomous72 said:

Everyone knows Foom 2 is the first appearance. That’s why it’s the money book.

Ya’ll are crazy.

A tough guy named 'Wolverine' in a yellow and blue costume with a head covering and a focus on the trademark three claws?  Sounds like 1940 from this reference:

Edited May 4, 2021 by valiantman

[rexinnih]

9 hours ago, rfhbv100 said:

 

By the way, I just noticed that due to the 180th issue, this topic turned into another discussion of "Hulk 180 VS Hulk 181"

Don't worry, soon someone will state either their 180 or 181 is in with CGC for grading and the turnaround time rabbit hole will commence. 

Now for my contribution, Trimpe signs as the "First appearance" and Roy Thomas didn't dispute when I had him sign 

[Bob Troub]

I tried to find a meme of someone beating a dead horse, but that would be cruel.....

This subject seems to come up every other month or so.......

[ADAMANTIUM]

Nodding my head like ya

Shaking my hips like ya

[valiantman]

26 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

Nodding my head like ya

Shaking my hips like ya

Moving.  The only hip shaking is from shaki-ra, and hers don't lie.

[Randall Ries]

Whew! What a thread. Tuckered out now? Thank God I can't stand the Wolverine character. I'd be exhausted.

[ADAMANTIUM]

9 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Moving.  The only hip shaking is from shaki-ra, and hers don't lie.

I just found out that song was miley today so since I learned something it stuck in my head to remember

But yes the Jay z song was on

[Terry JSA]

I think we have our answer! Roy Thomas says that Hulk #180 is in fact Wolverine’s 1st appearance. 

"Obviously it's #180 because he's in that last panel," Thomas tells ComicBook.com. Thomas co-created the character with Len Wein and John Romita. "It's just that the other is a full story and the one's a panel of it. But the first appearance is in #180, obviously."

[kav]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:21 PM, Terry JSA said:

I think we have our answer! Roy Thomas says that Hulk #180 is in fact Wolverine’s 1st appearance. 

"Obviously it's #180 because he's in that last panel," Thomas tells ComicBook.com. Thomas co-created the character with Len Wein and John Romita. "It's just that the other is a full story and the one's a panel of it. But the first appearance is in #180, obviously."

Hopefully this will have an effect on everyone that is seeking 181 and causes them to dump it then value implodes like tulip bulbs.

[Terry JSA]

On 11/1/2021 at 11:40 PM, kav said:

Hopefully this will have an effect on everyone that is seeking 181 and causes them to dump it then value implodes like tulip bulbs.

I doubt that’ll happen since people just go off whatever the market dictates.

Todd McFarlane said that ASM #299 is Venom’s 1st appearance but people will still want ASM #300. So do I think Roy Thomas saying this will change anything? No. You would be better off just getting both books since this will be a never ending discussion. 
 

 

[kav]

On 11/1/2021 at 9:08 PM, Terry JSA said:

I doubt that’ll happen since people just go off whatever the market dictates.

Todd McFarlane said that ASM #299 is Venom’s 1st appearance but people will still want ASM #300. So do I think Roy Thomas saying this will change anything? No. You would be better off just getting both books since this will be a never ending discussion. 
 

 

I'm also gettin 179 just in case.  Maybe he's in the background somewhere never know.

[Vixom]

Not breaking news. It's always been considered his 1st appearance.  People would just rather have his full appearance. 2 panels wouldn't make a difference. He is talked about in the story before that last panel. Time to release weapon x then you see weapon x and he is like I am coming next issue so don't forget to buy it. It's slightly better than a ad but still just a ad. Now if it was just that one panel but the 181 cover was used on 180 then 180 would be the book. 

[Vixom]

On 11/25/2019 at 4:09 PM, kav said:

The logic has always been "well he only appears in one panel so it's a cameo".  Ok what about 2 panels?  3? 6?  2 pages?  What's the cutoff point?

Just read the title and the roy post. For me it's easy. My opinion is the only thing that matters. I don't watch the movie or music award shows. I will take saving private ryan over Shakespeare in love. Cgc's grade doesn't matter. If cgc says it's a 9.4 but it looks like a 9.0 to me I ain't buying it. Unless it's cheap enough to flip to someone who will believe it's a 9.4. To me a full appearance vs cameo is like lead or supporting role. Does the appearance have any or how much effect on the story? Single panel cameos are common marketing ploys. Now if that character is on the cover then it's a game changer. If not it's just an advertisement many times. 

[ashsaytr]

Wolverine Co-Creator Settles Incredible Hulk First Appearance Debate (comicbook.com)

 

[comicginger1789]

I mean, would this not be an easy way around all of this debate?

If a character appears in say 3 panels or less, at the end of the story or even shadowed and named/unnamed (but revealed in a subsequent issue so it is clear who that was), it should be noted "first brief appearance". If it happens again, "second brief appearance" and so on.

If the character appears on more than two pages, throughout the story and is part of that issue's plot of even underlying plot, it should be notes "first full appearance". If they also appear on the cover, it should be noted "first cover appearance"

If a character appears on the cover but is maybe only in the issue breifly (Xmen 282 comes to mind), it should be noted "first cover and brief appearance". And then, whenever the first full appearance occurs (next issue in my example), then the note of "first full appearance" will appear.

 

That is how I prefer to phrase and view it. And sure, you can get into second full appearances, etc. but really those don't matter as much and I don't know that you should waste label space noting that...just my feelings.. I know CGC labels I think up to the fourth appearance of Green Goblin on the label. Why? Maybe it is because appearances of early major characters are easier to track than they are for more modern characters? Do labels show "fourth appearance of Deadpool" for example? 

Anyway, I am happy to field people's conundrum books that don't fit my label philosophy lol. If you are going to ask about ad or preview appearances, well those should be labelled as such and if seen on a label, it should be known that they predate the actual comic appearances. 

 

[sfcityduck]

On 11/2/2021 at 5:42 AM, comicginger1789 said:

 

Anyway, I am happy to field people's conundrum books that don't fit my label philosophy lol. If you are going to ask about ad or preview appearances, well those should be labelled as such and if seen on a label, it should be known that they predate the actual comic appearances. 

 

Ads are noted on the labels of GA books.  An example:

[Fisionbomb]

On 5/4/2021 at 6:33 PM, Randall Ries said:

Tuckered out now? Thank God

That's what she said.

[sfcityduck]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:05 AM, Lazyboy said:

I was mostly joking about the X = ten thing, though I'm well aware of Morrison's work.  The point was that 'X' can mean any number of things and wouldn't be automatically associated with Marvel's mutants, especially with their series being effectively dead at the time.

Except that in Hulk 181 Wolverine is specifically identified as a Mutant as his backstory continues to spool out from the start given it in Hulk 180.

Edited November 2, 2021 by sfcityduck

[kav]

I'm going to argue that Wolverine hasnt appeared yet.  He hasn't  been in enough panels yet to qualify.

[sfcityduck]

On 11/2/2021 at 5:42 AM, comicginger1789 said:

I mean, would this not be an easy way around all of this debate?

If a character appears in say 3 panels or less, at the end of the story or even shadowed and named/unnamed (but revealed in a subsequent issue so it is clear who that was), it should be noted "first brief appearance". If it happens again, "second brief appearance" and so on.

 

 

Except that Hulk 180 begins the spooling out of Wolverine's back story in four panels on page 3 of the comic (even naming him as Weapon X), and what happens in the two panels on the last page is a direct continuation of the spooling out of that story.  He doesn't come out of nowhere in that final panel.  Of course, Hulk 181 continues the spooling out of Wolverine's story, and you cannot fully understand that story unless you have read Hulk 180.