Tell us what you really think, Marnin!

[joe_collector]

"Save me from the... WEED!!"

[FFB]

I believe it would........

 

 

And what are you basing that belief on? Personal experience? Or pure conjecture?

 

Do you believe in pressing?

 

Do I think it exists? or do I think it is restoration?

 

Yes on both counts, as I am sure you've seen me write before.

 

Now that I've answered your question, are you going to answer my question?

 

Incidentally, one has to wonder what possible reason Marnin would have to malign a few of his books the way he's been doing here. Disclosure of pressing is one thing -- but that's not what he's doing. He's got a whole fire and brimstone thing going here that goes well beyond disclosure. I'll bet if he would have just stated in neutral terms that he believed those books to have been pressed by an amateur and gave grades consistent with the defects the books have, they'd all have sold by now.

[FFB]

OK, this might be a silly question as I don't really pay attention to pressing issues, but, if there is a wave pattern on the book, does this mean it could be pressed?

 

No, it is more likely caused by humidity/moisture damage. I got an Action 243 from Colmore Comics and an Action 242 from Metro that had waves like those -- they were from nice 50s DC collections that had been exposed to high humidity.

 

It would take a really poor pressing job to wind up with waves like that.

 

Exactly. You screw up a couple books before you get really good at it. Did you read Marnin's detailed explanations on the links I posted?

 

Yes I did read them.

 

If you were a neophyte presser, would you practice on books like that? or would you practice on cheap books and then move up to books like that once you figured out whether you were doing it right or not?

[Red Hook]

Call him up, Scott. I'm sure he'd be able to answer all your questions regarding his motivations personally!

 

516) 466-8147

[Red Hook]

 

If you were a neophyte presser, would you practice on books like that? or would you practice on cheap books and then move up to books like that once you figured out whether you were doing it right or not?

 

Um....mistakes get made. What's your explanation for that back cover crease.....production defect? Marnin's theory is as good as any I can think of, and it's consistant with the front cover damage.

[burntboy]

I believe it would........

 

 

And what are you basing that belief on? Personal experience? Or pure conjecture?

 

Do you believe in pressing?

 

i can see that i'm going to have to step in between you two again............

 

 

 

 

 

here's what i take out of the ST 94 and Marnin's comments;

 

1. if the book has lot's of overhang creasing it shouldn't lie perfectly flat on the overhang.

 

2. if there are numerous color breaking corner creases, the book shouldn't be perfectly flat in that area.

 

3. i'm confused about what we are to learn from the waviness of the front cover spine and BC left edge. both have significant rippling which, i would have thought, would have been the object of the pressing in the first place.

 

can we conclude that the presence of those ripples on a book which may well have been pressed, suggests an amateur job???

 

i tend to agree that places on books with numerous color breaking creases are not likely to be perfectly flat, but leave room for the possibility that they could be.....

 

nevertheless - much food for thought.......................

 

oh, and see my latest thread for what i also located on the site i'll provide some interesting history on my very first sale............

[Red Hook]

Thanks Burnt......I don't want to get into a wrangle regarding semantics with Scott, because I'll lose!

 

It's all just grist for the mill, and since we never see examples of BAD pressing jobs, I thought these were really interesting. I choose to trust Marnin's experience.....you could wonder about anyone's motivations...but I think it's better to just talk about what's in front of our eyeballs.

 

My instincts have been pretty good on this stuff, (not that I'm never wrong), but the more examples we look at the better. Everyone is welcome to draw their own conclusions.

[esquirecomics]

Hey, disagreeing with a dealers pricing and grading is nothing new. What's fascinating to me is here you have a dealer of note, advertising and discussing some of the badly pressed books in his inventory. I hate to see good books mashed.........look at some of these....it's like a primer on what can go wrong. The guy is trying, and I give him full credit for that!

 

I agree with Brad. The below post is not directed at anyone specific.

 

For one thing, those prices are either his asking price or in an auction format. If you are interested in a book but don't want to pay that price, call him up or e-mail him with your reasonable offer. He'll negotiate. What dealer's prices do not start out "high" (and I am not saying these are)? I can certainly point you to dealers whose prices are sky high no matter what the book.

 

Many of you forumites have gone on and on saying people should put their money where their mouth is instead of spouting off, and that is what Marnin has done. He should be applauded for it. Few others have the guts to do anything.

 

And as far as grading, he - like me - offers a 100% return guarantee. Just because a book he, or any dealer, grades may not receive the same CGC grade is irrelevant. If you buy a book from Marnin at a 9.2 and it comes back a CGC 8.5, will you demand your money back? And if you do, then I suppose if the book came back a CGC 9.4 you would be willing to pay Marnin more money, correct? Works both ways.

 

He has some beautiful books on his site. I encourage everyone to give him business. I do.

[Ze-man]

3. i'm confused about what we are to learn from the waviness of the front cover spine and BC left edge. both have significant rippling which, i would have thought, would have been the object of the pressing in the first place.

 

can we conclude that the presence of those ripples on a book which may well have been pressed, suggests an amateur job???

 

I tend to agree that places on books with numerous color breaking creases are not likely to be perfectly flat, but leave room for the possibility that they could be.....

 

.

 

 

Morning everybody.

 

Harry are you talking about the ST #88?.. or just all the books in general?

I also believe a book that has deep spine waves is caused more by humidy then bad pressing.

Waviness is the type of thing flat pressing cannot remove, I think only cover removal and pressing out each page individually would revert the book to a flat state.

In the case of the books we are looking at here(especially that F.F.), I think it probably was a semi-amateur press job, not because the book HAS waves, but because how the waves look, pancake type pressing resulted in the peaks of the waves being slightly flattened? Does that make sense?

 

And about those CBC's I think anytime you see an area that has multiple CBC's, or overhang that aint folded over anymore, and they look abnormally flat and smooth.. it was probably pressed.Not unfolded with a finger.. but dry heat pressed. That was among the things I set about to learn when I did my novice experiments.

 

And as far as Marnin asking alot for the books?.. who cares.. (we all aim high when listing books...right Divad? )

Besides, anyone can place a low bid on these books if they want to.. the BIN now is all that is high...(BTW, does Marnin only accept 50% of the BIN as a serious bid?)

 

 

Ze-

[Rocketeer]

....I was wondering if he would accept 10% as a serious bid!!!...

 

 

Superman #284

CA.Com NM+ 9.6

 

 

 

 

$1,800 BUY IT NOW!

CURRENT BID: $0

DETAILS - BID

 

...you got to be kidding me??!!??...

[october]

....I was wondering if he would accept 10% as a serious bid!!!...

 

 

Superman #284

CA.Com NM+ 9.6

 

 

 

 

$1,800 BUY IT NOW!

CURRENT BID: $0

DETAILS - BID

 

...you got to be kidding me??!!??...

 

 

....and I though $700+ for that Donkey Kong Nintendo box was the craziest thing I had ever seen. Nice lower corners on that "NM+".

[FFB]

3. i'm confused about what we are to learn from the waviness of the front cover spine and BC left edge. both have significant rippling which, i would have thought, would have been the object of the pressing in the first place.

 

can we conclude that the presence of those ripples on a book which may well have been pressed, suggests an amateur job???

 

I tend to agree that places on books with numerous color breaking creases are not likely to be perfectly flat, but leave room for the possibility that they could be.....

 

.

 

 

Morning everybody.

 

Harry are you talking about the ST #88?.. or just all the books in general?

I also believe a book that has deep spine waves is caused more by humidy then bad pressing.

Waviness is the type of thing flat pressing cannot remove, I think only cover removal and pressing out each page individually would revert the book to a flat state.

 

Actually, Kenny, that isn't true. Those waves can be eliminated or at least greatly reduced without taking the book apart. Those are textbook defects that are removable by NDP-style pressing.

 

In the case of the books we are looking at here(especially that F.F.), I think it probably was a semi-amateur press job, not because the book HAS waves, but because how the waves look, pancake type pressing resulted in the peaks of the waves being slightly flattened? Does that make sense?

 

I wish we could see the book in hand, because then it would be easier to tell. But in any event, even if the book has been pressed, it's not the pressing that resulted in the waves -- it would have been the improper use of excessive humidity and the failure to keep the book under pressure while drying out that caused the waves.

 

And about those CBC's I think anytime you see an area that has multiple CBC's, or overhang that aint folded over anymore, and they look abnormally flat and smooth.. it was probably pressed.Not unfolded with a finger.. but dry heat pressed. That was among the things I set about to learn when I did my novice experiments.

 

Pressing in a dry mount press doesn't flatten bent overhang. It only flattens those things that have paper underneath them to give upward resistance.

 

As for flat CBCs, I don't think it is fair to say that a flat CBC necessarily means a book was pressed either. Books from that era are printed with very thin cover stock. If you stick a book like that with a CBC on the bottom of a stack for 30-40 years, that crease will flatten out completely. I've seen tons of books (most recently, a B&B #13 I purchased in Chicago last weekend) that have perfectly flat CBCs but that were not pressed. If the crease is very old, it can absolutely flatten out completely without being pressed through unnatural means.

 

And as far as Marnin asking alot for the books?.. who cares.. (we all aim high when listing books...right Divad? )

Besides, anyone can place a low bid on these books if they want to.. the BIN now is all that is high...(BTW, does Marnin only accept 50% of the BIN as a serious bid?)

 

I have no problem with Marnin's pricing either. I just wish he would disclose pressing in a less inflammatory way so that people are not told that pressing is evil. Pressing isn't evil. Some people care whether a book has been pressed and others don't. Selling books with undisclosed pressing is the problem for people who care about it. Since he isn't selling books with undisclosed pressing, why all the fire and brimstone?

 

I am sorry to harp on this, but this is one of my pet peeves. I really wish that people would stop acting like the act of restoration itself is evil and that restored books are "bad books." They aren't. I got to take a close look at CentaurMan's Detective Comics #1 this weekend, and even though it was an Extensively restored book, I was just in awe -- and so was everyone else who looked at it. It's not an evil book, any more than any other restored book is an evil book. They're just worth less than unrestored books when the restoration is disclosed. (Although it remains to be seen whether professionally pressed books sold with disclosure in a blue label slab are worth less.)

[FFB]

I don't think any creases are caused by humidity, but I can't see how putting that book in a dry mount press would cause that crease either.

 

Is this caused by humidity?

 

 

Yep. Another botched flatty. Obviously once a very nice Bethlehem copy, was literally a NM- copy with only a 2 1/2" paper-color break crease running vertically up along the base of the f/c spine, (a VF-.) Then the dope figured, "Daaa, I can press this out!" Then, while trying to accomplish this, Mr. Non-Skilled Pressing Genius probably crimped the entire back cover, causing a book length verticle paper break crease along the b/c spine, thus another childhood treasure forever butchered.

 

 

 

[FFB]

 

If you were a neophyte presser, would you practice on books like that? or would you practice on cheap books and then move up to books like that once you figured out whether you were doing it right or not?

 

Um....mistakes get made. What's your explanation for that back cover crease.....production defect? Marnin's theory is as good as any I can think of, and it's consistant with the front cover damage.

 

How does a dry mount press cause a crease like that? Why didn't the dry mount press remove the waviness from the front cover? That's what dry mount presses do -- they flatten paper. The only way a dry mount press could have caused the back cover crease is if some insufficiently_thoughtful_person put the book in the crease with the back cover folded over backward at the spot of the crease.

[Red Hook]

So what's your theory on what caused what we're looking at? Wet pressing, improperly dried?

[Sal]

improper storage conditions

 

something about that sun shadow makes me think these books weren't exactly well cared for in their middle years

[Rip]

Hey, check out the Witching Hour 4 NM-(9.2) raw for $990

I'm temped to ask him if the extra zero was unintentional.... seriously. He can't be serious!

[esquirecomics]

I have no problem with Marnin's pricing either. I just wish he would disclose pressing in a less inflammatory way so that people are not told that pressing is evil. Pressing isn't evil. Some people care whether a book has been pressed and others don't. Selling books with undisclosed pressing is the problem for people who care about it. Since he isn't selling books with undisclosed pressing, why all the fire and brimstone?

 

Scott, I can agree with you on this.

 

Pressing. Good.

 

Those who press. Evil.

 

Guns. Good.

 

Those who unlawfully shoot people with guns. Evil.

 

Owning an Action #1 in any condition. Priceless.

 

[Red Hook]

Undisclosed pressing is dishonest and fraudulent. I've believed that from day one, and continue to believe it.

 

B

[nearmint]

Many of you forumites have gone on and on saying people should put their money where their mouth is instead of spouting off, and that is what Marnin has done. He should be applauded for it. Few others have the guts to do anything.

 

Mark.

 

Which forumites have said that? I have merely stated that there doesn't seem to be a significant number of collectors changing their buying habits as a result of the revelations about non-disclosed pressing. I certainly haven't called on anyone to put up or shut up. If you're not referring to me, than who?

 

As for Marnin, how is he putting his money where his mouth is? From what I've seen, the books he's revealing as pressed are amateur hack jobs, not pro pressed books. They exhibit defects that CGC downgrades for, any other dealer would down-grade for, and are apparent to any reasonably experienced collector.

 

All Marnin is doing is revealing what caused defects obvious to the naked eye. It's as relevant as stating that a water stain on a book's front cover is a result of grandma spilling a glass of water while taking her pills. I couldn't care less how the damage got there, a water stain is a water stain. As long as the book is graded correctly, I'm happy.