Show Us Your Atlas Books - Have A Cigar 26 26

[originalisbest]

I would consider Superman, Spiderman, Batman as "major keys." 'All of the Marvel Avenger characters' first appearances should probably be considered major as well.

 

I can't put Menace 5's zombie in that elite class of characters that have worldwide recognition. Some might even object to Menace 5 being a "minor key" but, for the reasons you suggest, I think it's appropriate.

 

 

Menace 5 is a special book (thumbs u

 

 

 

The day adamstrange's PCH collection ever goes up for sale (and I'm sure that day is long off, if ever!) is the day quite a few PCH fans are going to experience empty wallets and run out of superlatives to offer. A beautiful copy of Menace 5!

[adamstrange]

It is interesting that a Journey 6 could sell for the same price as a Marvel Mystery 6 in comparable grade.

A different way to compare would be to ask how much the highest graded pedigree copy of JIM 6 would sell for relative to the highest graded pedigree copy of MM 6?

 

There'd be a pretty big imbalance in favor of MM 6 would there not?

 

Note: The JIM 6 hasn't sold for either the $6000 offer or the $8500 ask.

 

Given the price asked on a 7.5 JIM 6 (as the highest graded) I would imagine that if a 9.0 or 9.2 were to pop up it would be priced at well over $10,000. The last 9.2 Marvel 6 sold for a little over $16K so they are do get comparable. Obviously the Mile High copy of Marvel 6 would go for at least double the 16K, so yes the scales are definitely weighted in Marvel Mystery's favor. But what I really find interesting is the fact that demand for pre-code Atlas has grown so tremendously that we could even be having a conversation comparing the two. I've always been able to sell Atlas horror fairly well, but historically they have not been the most desirable of the '50s comics in general and horror in particular. EC, Farrell, Avon and others were what were hot. Atlas would kind of tag along as horror would go through its periodic hot cycles. But now Atlas is driving the bus to such a degree that I would say it is maybe the single hottest genre in not just the '50s back-issues but in all of comics in terms of percentage price increases.

 

I think this is a seller asking the moon for JIM 6 so we're discussing what I think are improbable comparisons. Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out. It's not just Mystery Tales either where prices are volatile. It's still a little early to tell if this a Duck-like bubble or a sustained increase has occurred and, if so, how much.

[Johnny545]

It is interesting that a Journey 6 could sell for the same price as a Marvel Mystery 6 in comparable grade.

A different way to compare would be to ask how much the highest graded pedigree copy of JIM 6 would sell for relative to the highest graded pedigree copy of MM 6?

 

There'd be a pretty big imbalance in favor of MM 6 would there not?

 

Note: The JIM 6 hasn't sold for either the $6000 offer or the $8500 ask.

 

Given the price asked on a 7.5 JIM 6 (as the highest graded) I would imagine that if a 9.0 or 9.2 were to pop up it would be priced at well over $10,000. The last 9.2 Marvel 6 sold for a little over $16K so they are do get comparable. Obviously the Mile High copy of Marvel 6 would go for at least double the 16K, so yes the scales are definitely weighted in Marvel Mystery's favor. But what I really find interesting is the fact that demand for pre-code Atlas has grown so tremendously that we could even be having a conversation comparing the two. I've always been able to sell Atlas horror fairly well, but historically they have not been the most desirable of the '50s comics in general and horror in particular. EC, Farrell, Avon and others were what were hot. Atlas would kind of tag along as horror would go through its periodic hot cycles. But now Atlas is driving the bus to such a degree that I would say it is maybe the single hottest genre in not just the '50s back-issues but in all of comics in terms of percentage price increases.

 

...... I doubt the demand is as deep for the JIM as for the MM 6...... and once the demand is satisfied a correction for the Atlas book may occur. Atlas, however, is almost laughably underpriced in OSPG ..... which many folks still use as a gauge. It wouldn't surprise me to see certain issues ..... i.e., Menace 1, Venus 18, 19, etc.... in top census condition go for 10K with aggressive competition. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

 

I agree, there are about a dozen Atlas books that in very high grade (or perceived to be the highest) certainly capable of going for 10K, (you all know which ones too)...there just aren't enough around to meet demand.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2014 by Johnny545

[originalisbest]

It is interesting that a Journey 6 could sell for the same price as a Marvel Mystery 6 in comparable grade.

A different way to compare would be to ask how much the highest graded pedigree copy of JIM 6 would sell for relative to the highest graded pedigree copy of MM 6?

 

There'd be a pretty big imbalance in favor of MM 6 would there not?

 

Note: The JIM 6 hasn't sold for either the $6000 offer or the $8500 ask.

 

Given the price asked on a 7.5 JIM 6 (as the highest graded) I would imagine that if a 9.0 or 9.2 were to pop up it would be priced at well over $10,000. The last 9.2 Marvel 6 sold for a little over $16K so they are do get comparable. Obviously the Mile High copy of Marvel 6 would go for at least double the 16K, so yes the scales are definitely weighted in Marvel Mystery's favor. But what I really find interesting is the fact that demand for pre-code Atlas has grown so tremendously that we could even be having a conversation comparing the two. I've always been able to sell Atlas horror fairly well, but historically they have not been the most desirable of the '50s comics in general and horror in particular. EC, Farrell, Avon and others were what were hot. Atlas would kind of tag along as horror would go through its periodic hot cycles. But now Atlas is driving the bus to such a degree that I would say it is maybe the single hottest genre in not just the '50s back-issues but in all of comics in terms of percentage price increases.

 

I think this is a seller asking the moon for JIM 6 so we're discussing what I think are improbable comparisons. Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out. It's not just Mystery Tales either where prices are volatile. It's still a little early to tell if this a Duck-like bubble or a sustained increase has occurred and, if so, how much.

 

The Mystery Tales hoarder was/is an odd scenario. Hoping I will be able to get some copies of issues I want from that run again.

[Flex Mentallo]

Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out.

 

Is there a story there?

[adamstrange]

Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out.

 

Is there a story there?

I've only heard information 2nd hand so whether it involves an erupting volcano, the Walking Dead or an alien abduction I couldn't say. Maybe someone else can chime in.

[Flex Mentallo]

Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out.

 

Is there a story there?

I've only heard information 2nd hand so whether it involves an erupting volcano, the Walking Dead or an alien abduction I couldn't say. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

Whatever the answer, it's certainly ironic.

[Johnny545]

Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out.

 

Is there a story there?

I've only heard information 2nd hand so whether it involves an erupting volcano, the Walking Dead or an alien abduction I couldn't say. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

Whatever the answer, it's certainly ironic.

 

When did the Mystery Tales buyer drop out, I haven't really noticed a change in demand. Weren't there some strong HA auctions recently...there still seems to be nothing in the way of inventory.

 

 

[Jayman]

Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out.

 

Is there a story there?

I've only heard information 2nd hand so whether it involves an erupting volcano, the Walking Dead or an alien abduction I couldn't say. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

Whatever the answer, it's certainly ironic.

 

When did the Mystery Tales buyer drop out, I haven't really noticed a change in demand. Weren't there some strong HA auctions recently...there still seems to be nothing in the way of inventory.

 

 

Did the Mystery Tales buyer drop out or did he achieve his goal and grab all available inventory?

[Flex Mentallo]

Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out.

 

Is there a story there?

I've only heard information 2nd hand so whether it involves an erupting volcano, the Walking Dead or an alien abduction I couldn't say. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

Whatever the answer, it's certainly ironic.

 

When did the Mystery Tales buyer drop out, I haven't really noticed a change in demand. Weren't there some strong HA auctions recently...there still seems to be nothing in the way of inventory.

 

 

Did the Mystery Tales buyer drop out or did he achieve his goal and grab all available inventory?

 

Given what he as willing to pay I always wondered when he'd eventually empty his pockets.

[Johnny545]

Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out.

 

Is there a story there?

I've only heard information 2nd hand so whether it involves an erupting volcano, the Walking Dead or an alien abduction I couldn't say. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

Whatever the answer, it's certainly ironic.

 

When did the Mystery Tales buyer drop out, I haven't really noticed a change in demand. Weren't there some strong HA auctions recently...there still seems to be nothing in the way of inventory.

 

 

Did the Mystery Tales buyer drop out or did he achieve his goal and grab all available inventory?

 

Given what he as willing to pay I always wondered when he'd eventually empty his pockets.

 

I ran some rough estimates once with lots of assumed numbers, but it went something like this:

 

54 issues (Mystery Tales 1-54)

 

I assumed some very conservative figures for existing issues/grades/values:

 

30-50 copies of 1-5 (Avg. total 200)

50-70 copies of 6-15 (Avg total 600)

60-80 copies of 16-25 (Avg. total 700)

60-100 copies of 26-54 (Avg. total 2320)

 

3820 books total.

 

I assumed:

 

2% are 8.5 or higher

13% are 7.0 - 8.0

25% 5.0-6.5

25% 3.0-4.5

35% 0.0-3.0

 

I assumed for the 2% highest graded the books (76 total) would command on average $2700 a book with the earlier issues skewing much higher than the later post code issues.

 

($205K)

 

The 13% (7.0-8.0), 500 books total, I put a value of $800 on average.

 

($400K)

 

The 25% (5.0-6.5), 955, I put an average value of $275.

 

($263K)

 

The next 25% (3.0-4.5), 955, I put an average value of $125.

 

($119K)

 

The final 35% (0.5-3.0), 1337, I put an average value of $75.

 

($100K)

 

I got a total to buy all Mystery Tales in existence using my numbers of ($205K + $400K +263K + 119K + 100K = $1.087M/b] - just over a million bucks.

 

Feel free to tell me my numbers are ridiculous, I meant this only as a topic of discussion and will take no offense - plus I am sure some of my math is wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2014 by Johnny545

[jimjum12]

I think a large part of the volatility of Atlas is due to the fact that while there have been increases, a typical Atlas with a cool cover is still only a couple hundred or less in a real sharp mid grade state. Folks can still sock 'em away without too much remorse.... it makes for a real friendly collector's environment. They're not everywhere, so the thrill of the hunt is still there..... and they're kind of neat. Many of the artists have that zany irreverent style that foreshadows the Underground Comix movement of a decade or so later. Maneely is still very under rated in the larger collecting community..... here's a cool splash from a tough book that was well below a hundred bucks.Right now, the Atlas canon reminds me a whole lot of the Marvel Pre Hero market of the last 5 or 6 years. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

[goldust40]

Demand has grown and price increases have been among the greatest but then so have the decreases as witnessed when the Mystery Tales hoarder dropped out.

 

Is there a story there?

I've only heard information 2nd hand so whether it involves an erupting volcano, the Walking Dead or an alien abduction I couldn't say. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

Whatever the answer, it's certainly ironic.

 

When did the Mystery Tales buyer drop out, I haven't really noticed a change in demand. Weren't there some strong HA auctions recently...there still seems to be nothing in the way of inventory.

 

 

Did the Mystery Tales buyer drop out or did he achieve his goal and grab all available inventory?

 

He certainly managed to attain most of the inventory that was out there, and has seemingly kept all of it.

[mrmyst]

It is interesting that a Journey 6 could sell for the same price as a Marvel Mystery 6 in comparable grade.

A different way to compare would be to ask how much the highest graded pedigree copy of JIM 6 would sell for relative to the highest graded pedigree copy of MM 6?

 

There'd be a pretty big imbalance in favor of MM 6 would there not?

 

Note: The JIM 6 hasn't sold for either the $6000 offer or the $8500 ask.

 

Given the price asked on a 7.5 JIM 6 (as the highest graded) I would imagine that if a 9.0 or 9.2 were to pop up it would be priced at well over $10,000. The last 9.2 Marvel 6 sold for a little over $16K so they are do get comparable. Obviously the Mile High copy of Marvel 6 would go for at least double the 16K, so yes the scales are definitely weighted in Marvel Mystery's favor. But what I really find interesting is the fact that demand for pre-code Atlas has grown so tremendously that we could even be having a conversation comparing the two. I've always been able to sell Atlas horror fairly well, but historically they have not been the most desirable of the '50s comics in general and horror in particular. EC, Farrell, Avon and others were what were hot. Atlas would kind of tag along as horror would go through its periodic hot cycles. But now Atlas is driving the bus to such a degree that I would say it is maybe the single hottest genre in not just the '50s back-issues but in all of comics in terms of percentage price increases.

 

Well. I can say having seen, as a collector of PCH for 25 years, a few of those periodic hot cycles, that going back 20+ years or so ago - at least for my circle of fellow horror collectors - we were hot on the trail for the Bailey cover Weird Mysteries, Mr Mystery, Weird Tales of the Future, and the 'classic' individual issues of other titles. Black Cat 50, TofT 15, Beware 10 etc etc. The Gilmor books we found especially hard to track down even in low grade. Honestly, Atlas wasn't on the radar for my little circle with the exception of Menace 5. We saw Atlas books more readily than the others I mentioned - we didn't feel compelled to buy them when we saw them. But if you were extremely fortunate and stumbled on a Weird Mysteries 6 or a Beware 10 you jumped on them immediately. I remember distinctly the day that Mark Haspel and Brian Faracci brought a chunk of the newly-discovered Spokane books to Carbo's old church show in NYC. It was the Gilmors everyone was fainting over. Mr B is dead-on correct. The price increases on Atlas has been staggering.

[rjpb]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a few exceptions for the long popular "classic" Atlas covers, and early numbers of titles like JIM and ST, the huge run up seems to be largely limited to 6.0 and up copies, with maybe the odd 5.0-5.5 with strong eye-appeal. There are tons of Atlas PCH on ebay in 2.0 - 5.0 that sell for $25 - $90 regularly in auction format.

 

It does seem pretty common place for CGC 6.0 copies to sell for 3 - 4X what a raw VG would for a lot of books ( especially Everett covers) , and in some cases even more, with the really big jumps in 8.0 and above - including post-code fantasy books as well. I get the feeling this is more to do with the broad realization that Atlas in even middling higher grade is very difficult to come by, and not so much a demand for PCH Atlas in general. Unlike the often gruesome classics and even some semi-classics from other publishers which routinely fetch $100 - $500 in GD, one can still find some of the cooler Atlas PCH books for less than $100 in VG.

[jimjum12]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a few exceptions for the long popular "classic" Atlas covers, and early numbers of titles like JIM and ST, the huge run up seems to be largely limited to 6.0 and up copies, with maybe the odd 5.0-5.5 with strong eye-appeal. There are tons of Atlas PCH on ebay in 2.0 - 5.0 that sell for $25 - $90 regularly in auction format.

 

It does seem pretty common place for CGC 6.0 copies to sell for 3 - 4X what a raw VG would for a lot of books ( especially Everett covers) , and in some cases even more, with the really big jumps in 8.0 and above - including post-code fantasy books as well. I get the feeling this is more to do with the broad realization that Atlas in even middling higher grade is very difficult to come by, and not so much a demand for PCH Atlas in general. Unlike the often gruesome classics and even some semi-classics from other publishers which routinely fetch $100 - $500 in GD, one can still find some of the cooler Atlas PCH books for less than $100 in VG.

 

...... this is what I'm seeing also. One factor to consider with eBay is that the typical Ebay VG is usually just a weak G+..... this probably has a bearing on completed sales. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[rjpb]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a few exceptions for the long popular "classic" Atlas covers, and early numbers of titles like JIM and ST, the huge run up seems to be largely limited to 6.0 and up copies, with maybe the odd 5.0-5.5 with strong eye-appeal. There are tons of Atlas PCH on ebay in 2.0 - 5.0 that sell for $25 - $90 regularly in auction format.

 

It does seem pretty common place for CGC 6.0 copies to sell for 3 - 4X what a raw VG would for a lot of books ( especially Everett covers) , and in some cases even more, with the really big jumps in 8.0 and above - including post-code fantasy books as well. I get the feeling this is more to do with the broad realization that Atlas in even middling higher grade is very difficult to come by, and not so much a demand for PCH Atlas in general. Unlike the often gruesome classics and even some semi-classics from other publishers which routinely fetch $100 - $500 in GD, one can still find some of the cooler Atlas PCH books for less than $100 in VG.

 

...... this is what I'm seeing also. One factor to consider with eBay is that the typical Ebay VG is usually just a weak G+..... this probably has a bearing on completed sales. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

Point taken, though I was trying to factor for apparent grade based on a scan and not advertised grade. And while it's clearly easier to find loosely graded books than tightly graded books on ebay, I don't know if it's as bad as all that, there are plenty of decent graders on ebay, I think we just notice more when someone is way too generous. Nobody starts a thread about an ebay "NM" that actually looks like it could slab out at 9.4.

[rjpb]

A thought about the MM6 to JIM6 comparison. While both are loosely "Golden Age" books, and there are collectors who seek out both Timely hero books and Atlas PCH, it's really an apples to oranges comparison. MM6 is an early Timely with a nice Schomburg Angel cover, but its chronology more than anything else sets its value. I doubt it's on many "top ten Marvel Mystery covers" lists. While JIM 6 may have some added value as an early number of one of the two Atlas horror titles that survived into the Marvel Age, like most PCH horror books, the cover is the main driver for demand, and while it's true that '38-42 GA superhero books in general will sell for multiples of what the average PCH book will in equivalent grade, the breakout of some of the big horror "keys" shows the potential to be more than competitive pricewise for the right book.

 

While I think the asking price on the JIM 6 is ambitious at the least, I can more readily understand why some one might pay mid four figures for a VFish classic PCH book than the same amount for a 9.4 copy of a random early GA hero book with a mediocre cover.

[Flex Mentallo]

It is interesting that a Journey 6 could sell for the same price as a Marvel Mystery 6 in comparable grade.

A different way to compare would be to ask how much the highest graded pedigree copy of JIM 6 would sell for relative to the highest graded pedigree copy of MM 6?

 

There'd be a pretty big imbalance in favor of MM 6 would there not?

 

Note: The JIM 6 hasn't sold for either the $6000 offer or the $8500 ask.

 

Given the price asked on a 7.5 JIM 6 (as the highest graded) I would imagine that if a 9.0 or 9.2 were to pop up it would be priced at well over $10,000. The last 9.2 Marvel 6 sold for a little over $16K so they are do get comparable. Obviously the Mile High copy of Marvel 6 would go for at least double the 16K, so yes the scales are definitely weighted in Marvel Mystery's favor. But what I really find interesting is the fact that demand for pre-code Atlas has grown so tremendously that we could even be having a conversation comparing the two. I've always been able to sell Atlas horror fairly well, but historically they have not been the most desirable of the '50s comics in general and horror in particular. EC, Farrell, Avon and others were what were hot. Atlas would kind of tag along as horror would go through its periodic hot cycles. But now Atlas is driving the bus to such a degree that I would say it is maybe the single hottest genre in not just the '50s back-issues but in all of comics in terms of percentage price increases.

 

Well. I can say having seen, as a collector of PCH for 25 years, a few of those periodic hot cycles, that going back 20+ years or so ago - at least for my circle of fellow horror collectors - we were hot on the trail for the Bailey cover Weird Mysteries, Mr Mystery, Weird Tales of the Future, and the 'classic' individual issues of other titles. Black Cat 50, TofT 15, Beware 10 etc etc. The Gilmor books we found especially hard to track down even in low grade. Honestly, Atlas wasn't on the radar for my little circle with the exception of Menace 5. We saw Atlas books more readily than the others I mentioned - we didn't feel compelled to buy them when we saw them. But if you were extremely fortunate and stumbled on a Weird Mysteries 6 or a Beware 10 you jumped on them immediately. I remember distinctly the day that Mark Haspel and Brian Faracci brought a chunk of the newly-discovered Spokane books to Carbo's old church show in NYC. It was the Gilmors everyone was fainting over. Mr B is dead-on correct. The price increases on Atlas has been staggering.

 

Interesting comments Jon.

 

I remember those days as well - though on my side of the Atlantic, even mid-grade books were hard to come by, and we relied heavily on a couple of dealers willing to send catalogs abroad - and Harley Yee turning up at cons.

 

I found Atlas horror to be relatively scarce even then - but like you, everyone was focused on more high profile books. Weird Terrors and Horrific, Mr Mystery, Weird Chills.

 

I had this idea to try and collect all PCH titles in vg. I think I managed to get a couple of hundred of them, and very very few were in decent shape. At the same time, I had most of the Menaces, but never thought twice about them. When you go looking for a book and it falls into your lap without effort, as a fine copy of Menace #2 did, you gain a false perspective on relative scarcity.

 

I wonder if there is a particular reason for the dearth of Atlas PCH in higher grades? Were the print runs low? Were they read to death rather than collected? Or is it just the absence of file copies? Where would Harvey and EC collectors be without those? In the same boat as the Atlas collectors I imagine?

 

 

 

 

[Johnny545]

I've always heard print runs, and paper quality as the two main drivers of the lack of high grade Atlas PCH.

 

Also... Menace 2 if you still have it

 

 

Edited August 12, 2014 by Johnny545