GA COMIC BOOK Collecting in the Financial crisis of 2020 3 3

[ThothAmon]

On 4/9/2020 at 10:46 AM, Ryan. said:

I can't imagine having 5, 6 or even 7 figures sunk into a collection and having no regard for the value of that collection. 

Not sure I've hit seven figures yet but I have little regard for the current value.  Seems as though I have been buying and selling comics since the mid 1970's so I see it as the ultimate dollar cost averaging.  Sure its nice to see the dizzying heights once thought dreck is selling for but this collector looks forward to downturns so that aspirational books are shook loose from long held collections.  Don't expect too many bargains though.

[Cat-Man_America]

7 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

Let me be clear about the 4 major pathways or options we have in conducting our comic book collecting during the 2020 and beyond economic crisis and specifically, GA/SA comic book collecting.  I would like to address the first two today:

Option #1

Do nothing, hold, do not buy sell or trade. You are 100% satisfied with your collection, have stopped buying for all intents and purposes prior to the virus and either based on the low  cost you paid or you have the resources economically you have to last for a few years without selling as a necessity to survive for yourself and family. This requires a lot staying power. For how long, my guess at least 12 months before we hit bottom and probably another 18 months to get back to where we came from. So, if you have 3 years staying power or 10 or 30 years..it should be a pretty sound business decision to hold if you chose that pathway.

Option #2

 Buy: Every smart GA/SA comic book collector should take the time( and we have a lot on our hands) to do a complete GA/SA comic book collection Evaluation. Where am I strongest, where am I weakest, and would purchases would take my collection to the "next level". There are number of "whale" collectors who do not do a lot of social media. They are bit older, and wiser sometimes (LOL), but make no mistake they are very very sharp. I talked to one of my "whale" friends and he said the "smart" collectors are working on one thing..there want list..it needs to be ready to go in the next couple of months. I will tell you his buying strategy and like the old commercial " When EF Hutton talks, people listen". Classic, anyway My buying will be a little bit different than his,, so here goes:

1-Once in a lifetime pieces-make a list, and give these priority over anything else, not tied to value, it could a $20 Ga book or $100K. Make the list and get ready to hit every dealer,E-bay, collector that you know and auction site for that material. Then take your second level want list and go after that.

2- Look everywhere, there are items that you might not even have seen, know about, or have not had the time to research it. Be ready for surprises.

3-Any graded book, not CGC, should be given an additional 10-30% decrease in offer depending on the grading company. Do not buy any ungraded GA/SA comic book over $100 and even then be prepared on that buy to take a substantial loss should you have to resell during this crisis period.This rule does to apply to ultra rare books that might have never been graded or a high Gerber rating. Anything goes for those.

4- Do not buy  any GA/ SA  comic book because he price is "right or a great deal. Instead,, buy what you need, what you like, and do not be greedy as like the stock market(he trades in that also) says "Bears and Bulls survive, Hogs get slaughtered"

5- Buy using the "Tier" method. Similar to stock buying, you can purchase some GA/SA at 20% off, then some at 30% etc...Tier your buying because you will never know the exact moment of the bottom until after it has hit and it is on the way up.

6-Collector to Collector is the best way to buy and cut the middleman out (Sorry CC/HA).

7-Use nonconventional approaches to buying comic books, not limited to people you know..advertise. If you have  limited funds and a collection comes your way and you do not have all the money then partner up with a collector you know and trust and make an agreement in writing and then buy jointly.Do this in advance of using nonconventional methods of buying.

8-Be prepared when buying GA/SA  bought early for them to temporary go down, and other things bought just  at the right time to appreciate at once. Be patient. 

9-Be happy with a good solid deal..it does not have to be the greatest deal of all time.

10-WHAT WOULD ADD TO THE LIST?...lets keep it going

 

 I think there is a lot solid and good advise in his opinion. Everybody, including myself, will do things a bit different. His approach to selling(3d option) and Trading (4th option) is going to be a very interesting topic on these boards, we will get to that next week.

Happy Easter to one and all.

 

 

 

 

 

OK, now there's a totally new mental image that I can't get outta my head...  

Good point Mitch, those who swim in deep water are a different breed of big fish! 

And every collector should evaluate competitive risk aware that the National Harpoon is nearby!  FIN

[waaaghboss]

On 4/11/2020 at 3:17 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

This thread contains no active Covid-19  virus that I’m aware, Mitch sprays daily so enjoy it at your pleasure.   

FTR, I do intend to invest in several comics this year, ...but that would be telling!  

I know the feeling.  Finally got a low grade copy of my grail last night so now I can say its name in public again lol.

[tabcom]

The comic book investor ‘me’ feels the froth.

The comic book collector ‘me‘ has a core of Generational Comics to pass onto Tabcom jrs.

I’ve been a net seller for about 15 months now.
Judging by my sales, and dealers FMV pricing, the market has not priced in what’s coming yet.

As for my sales proceeds, I feel it’s time to rotate to a different asset class that will out perform collectible comics this decade. 

[MSGComics]

7 hours ago, tabcom said:

The comic book investor ‘me’ feels the froth.

The comic book collector ‘me‘ has a core of Generational Comics to pass onto Tabcom jrs.

I’ve been a net seller for about 15 months now.
Judging by my sales, and dealers FMV pricing, the market has not priced in what’s coming yet.

As for my sales proceeds, I feel it’s time to rotate to a different asset class that will out perform collectible comics this decade. 

 

Pretty much

 

 

[MSGComics]

7 hours ago, tabcom said:

The comic book investor ‘me’ feels the froth.

The comic book collector ‘me‘ has a core of Generational Comics to pass onto Tabcom jrs.

I’ve been a net seller for about 15 months now.
Judging by my sales, and dealers FMV pricing, the market has not priced in what’s coming yet.

As for my sales proceeds, I feel it’s time to rotate to a different asset class that will out perform collectible comics this decade. 

My thoughts exactly

 

[Axmen]

Hey Mmehdy and all you other GA oligarchs - wouldnt the best plan be to liquidate all GA NOW before the coming crash - then repurchase everything when prices bottom out?  Im serious, I figure all you 1% ers understand the ins and outs of making $$ better than me.  But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

[Tri-Color Brian]

6 hours ago, Axmen said:

Hey Mmehdy and all you other GA oligarchs - wouldnt the best plan be to liquidate all GA NOW before the coming crash - then repurchase everything when prices bottom out?  Im serious, I figure all you 1% ers understand the ins and outs of making $$ better than me.  But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

Because we collected mostly what we wanted, and we don't want to sell what we wanted...they were too hard to find...and there's no guarantee we will ever find them again even if prices "bottom out", which I doubt will happen across the board.  I have noticed something interesting over the years:  When a large portion of society gets panicky and paranoid about something it seldom happens the way expected.  I normally just sit back and watch to see...and usually I'm disappointed in the predicted results.  I could be wrong this time, but I don't think so...

Just noticed that reported cases of Covid19 and number of deaths in the U.S. seems to have peaked on April 10th and is now going down in both categories.  This is some good news anyway...

Edited April 14, 2020 by Tri-ColorBrian

[october]

18 hours ago, tabcom said:

The comic book investor ‘me’ feels the froth.

The comic book collector ‘me‘ has a core of Generational Comics to pass onto Tabcom jrs.

I’ve been a net seller for about 15 months now.
Judging by my sales, and dealers FMV pricing, the market has not priced in what’s coming yet.

As for my sales proceeds, I feel it’s time to rotate to a different asset class that will out perform collectible comics this decade. 

This post could have come straight out of my head. 

Except it's October jrs for me. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by october

[Mmehdy]

10 hours ago, Axmen said:

Hey Mmehdy and all you other GA oligarchs - wouldnt the best plan be to liquidate all GA NOW before the coming crash - then repurchase everything when prices bottom out?  Im serious, I figure all you 1% ers understand the ins and outs of making $$ better than me.  But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

Every true comic book collector is equal in our world. Whether you own one book or a thousand. It is where your heart is that counts, Axmen. If you are here because you think that comic books are a true art form both in writing and drawing, a window to the past and maybe the future, and something that never should be forgotten as GA comic books help get American thru economic depression,Adolf Hitler, and created one thing..hope and imagination then you are in the right place.

"But I  don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for prices to recover-same with stocks or anything really".

 I agree you don't understand.

Ga/SA comic book collecting is NOT stock buying or "anything really'. There is more to Ga/SA comic book collecting that having you bank account get bigger, or ledger grow. There are no "oligarchs" in the GA/SA comic book world...even CC who probably has the largest comic book and original art inventory are not  one them. Steve has been a collector since day one, not only  comics but comic and pulp art and Movie posters. A true GA/SA comic book collector is not a money machine who sole purpose is to gain wealth. Leave that to Wall Street, Leave it "anything else" but NOT here.. Nor is a true comic book collector a market manipulator. Leave that to the flippers and speculations who don't care where they put there money, Ga, Stocks, and "anything really". A true GA/SA comic book collector is judged on who he is, not what he owns.

 Of course GA/SA collecting has never been really cheap..even when I purchased first Action #1 for $1801.26, my Ford mustang  cost me $1500. It's all relative. Ga/SA collecting, and I agree with you involves two components not like late 60's, early 70's. In the old days, the smart collectors knew everything was gonna go up, so if you want to complete your collection you had to buy everything you could. We did not buy just to make money, we bought to complete our collections. Today, it it more complex and the competition is the whole world...when buying gets tougher, you have to be smarter and be aware of the current market value to get the best bang for your GA Bucks.  That buying strategy is 100% fine with me. Price has to be a consideration in the equation but not 100% of it.  So we have the whole world to compete against  including other true comic collectors and add the flippers and greed and welcome to the state of the GA/SA comic book market.

 Who is gonna take a hit over the next months...first the flippers, and then the pure investors are gonna be the first to bail. I don't feel sorry for them..they will just move on to options, gold, and bonds. So be it, you never belonged here anyway. Hopefully this will restore some price sanity in our market, make out GA/SA market more real and  stable and we can get back to collecting like we once were. Our GA/SA purchasing power should increase one true market value is realized and we are left alone.

 I do not think you statement was meant to insult me, but still I feel insulted as would any true Ga/SA comic book collector. To sell and buy back cheaper, while sound economic wise, is not the main reason we are here. There are bigger things in the true GA/SA comic book collectors universe , like when you see a GA book you have never seen before after 60 years of collecting, finding one you have wanted for the last 40 years, competing after 15 years a comic book run. Those feeling have nothing to do with you saving account  and never will. 

Axmen, to respond to you post . I submit this :

 No true GA/SA comic book collector would ever risk, selling a ultra rare GA/SA comic book for a profit with the chance of losing it forever just for the chance to buy it back cheaper. 

Axmen: I understand you question, it is a very logical one, but sometimes the heart wins out.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Mmehdy

[Axmen]

2 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

 No true GA/SA comic book collector would ever risk, selling a ultra rare GA/SA comic book for a profit with the chance of losing it forever just for the chance to buy it back cheaper. 

Axmen: I understand you question, it is a very logical one, but sometimes the heart wins out.

Your answer here makes sense to me.

Im sorry my post came off as harsh, I didn't mean to insult you. I read your posts and other more experienced collectors' posts to learn about the hobby.  Ive managed to put together a pretty cool PCH GA collection over the last few years and I would like to keep developing the collection but in an intelligent way. 

That being said, my post I guess not so subtly comments on what I realized reading this thread - that there is a pretty wide income gap amongst members of the community here. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Axmen

[KCOComics]

12 hours ago, Axmen said:

But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

It's very hard to predict what the market will do at any given time.  I follow the old expression "it's not about timing the market,  it's about time in the market"  

When the market started crashing,  the last thing on my mind was selling. I was buying. Short term,  I'll take some bumps,  but you've got to play the long game. 

As for comics, I think most people do it for the love of collecting. Its not an investment,  it's a hobby.  It may make sense to dump them now from a financial stand point,  but financial gain isn't why I collect. 

 

[Ryan.]

18 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

It's very hard to predict what the market will do at any given time. 

Yup. Most of the assumptions in this thread, as well as the boards at large, are that the comic collecting market is definitely going to depress. I'm not so sure about that. People find comfort in their hobbies. 

As far as selling off books now before the expected crash in order to rebuy them cheaper, I've learned the hard way that selling off rare GA in order to buy again later is a lot easier said than done. If the market does indeed depress, books are likely to become even harder to find. 

[Mmehdy]

1 hour ago, Axmen said:

Your answer here makes sense to me.

Im sorry my post came off as harsh, I didn't mean to insult you. I read your posts and other more experienced collectors' posts to learn about the hobby.  Ive managed to put together a pretty cool PCH GA collection over the last few years and I would like to keep developing the collection but in an intelligent way. 

That being said, my post I guess not so subtly comments on what I realized reading this thread - that there is a pretty wide income gap amongst members of the community here. 

Thanks for you reply..we are all good. The income gap can be made up by the time of entry when you started you GA Collection. as well as smart GA buying and not trying to get the highest graded copy of that book. I agree with you, some GA has been pumped up tremendously by speculators, investors and flippers. Over the next 12-18 we will see how well the prices hold and what those guys do. For a flipper by definition is generally not a long term holder...you never know. I am proud that you have put together a cool PCH GA collection no matter how much money you spent. Keeping in the buying GA/SA game in an intelligent way is the best way to proceed in a time of uncertainly. I hope you keep and enjoy your collection for a long long time.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Mmehdy

[Cat-Man_America]

Teaser, see next post for context... 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Cat-Man_America

[Cat-Man_America]

13 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

Every true comic book collector is equal in our world. Whether you own one book or a thousand. It is where your heart is that counts, Axmen. If you are here because you think that comic books are a true art form both in writing and drawing, a window to the past and maybe the future, and something that never should be forgotten as GA comic books help get American thru economic depression,Adolf Hitler, and created one thing..hope and imagination then you are in the right place.

"But I  don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for prices to recover-same with stocks or anything really".

 I agree you don't understand.

Ga/SA comic book collecting is NOT stock buying or "anything really'. There is more to Ga/SA comic book collecting that having you bank account get bigger, or ledger grow. There are no "oligarchs" in the GA/SA comic book world...even CC who probably has the largest comic book and original art inventory are not  one them. Steve has been a collector since day one, not only  comics but comic and pulp art and Movie posters. A true GA/SA comic book collector is not a money machine who sole purpose is to gain wealth. Leave that to Wall Street, Leave it "anything else" but NOT here.. Nor is a true comic book collector a market manipulator. Leave that to the flippers and speculations who don't care where they put there money, Ga, Stocks, and "anything really". A true GA/SA comic book collector is judged on who he is, not what he owns.

 Of course GA/SA collecting has never been really cheap..even when I purchased first Action #1 for $1801.26, my Ford mustang  cost me $1500. It's all relative. Ga/SA collecting, and I agree with you involves two components not like late 60's, early 70's. In the old days, the smart collectors knew everything was gonna go up, so if you want to complete your collection you had to buy everything you could. We did not buy just to make money, we bought to complete our collections. Today, it it more complex and the competition is the whole world...when buying gets tougher, you have to be smarter and be aware of the current market value to get the best bang for your GA Bucks.  That buying strategy is 100% fine with me. Price has to be a consideration in the equation but not 100% of it.  So we have the whole world to compete against  including other true comic collectors and add the flippers and greed and welcome to the state of the GA/SA comic book market.

 Who is gonna take a hit over the next months...first the flippers, and then the pure investors are gonna be the first to bail. I don't feel sorry for them..they will just move on to options, gold, and bonds. So be it, you never belonged here anyway. Hopefully this will restore some price sanity in our market, make out GA/SA market more real and  stable and we can get back to collecting like we once were. Our GA/SA purchasing power should increase one true market value is realized and we are left alone.

 I do not think you statement was meant to insult me, but still I feel insulted as would any true Ga/SA comic book collector. To sell and buy back cheaper, while sound economic wise, is not the main reason we are here. There are bigger things in the true GA/SA comic book collectors universe , like when you see a GA book you have never seen before after 60 years of collecting, finding one you have wanted for the last 40 years, competing after 15 years a comic book run. Those feeling have nothing to do with you saving account  and never will. 

Axmen, to respond to you post . I submit this :

 No true GA/SA comic book collector would ever risk, selling a ultra rare GA/SA comic book for a profit with the chance of losing it forever just for the chance to buy it back cheaper. 

Axmen: I understand you question, it is a very logical one, but sometimes the heart wins out.

I agree with most points Mitch makes here, but there are lots of reasons to sell and purchase again later having nothing to do with investment and flipping books for profit.  For instance, high grade collectors may be looking for upgrade opportunities or perhaps a more desired grail requiring leverage.  This happens a lot with some true collectors.  

In my case, it’s quality over quantity.  Richard Evans (Mr Bedrock) rightfully described my collecting as oddball. Most collectors focus on a single character, artist or publisher, and try to finish runs.  Some work very hard achieving their aspired goals for many years, ...and I admire their “moxie” staying the course. But this type of collecting has never worked for me.  I’m a high grade collector with a passion for art and specific styles.  That’s how I collected as a kid and is still where my head's at today.

What fuels my passion are appealing covers and high grade irrespective of the publishing line. It allows me to move around within the collecting hobby without locking in on one specific thing.  That said, I do occasionally seek mini-runs within titles based on certain characters and featured artists.  I only mention these facts to make the point that there’s a wide variety of “true” collectors and the hobby's history just makes it more interesting.

IMO, there are milestones in comic collecting from the 1960’s ‘till now.  To briefly go over the highlights, comic fandom started in earnest in the early 60’s roughly around the time back issues dealers started running classified ads targeting collectors in major comic magazines.  Fanzines started connecting fans, then conventions.  By 1970 Bob Overstreet saw the need for an annual guide to track baseline values (50 years later the OSG remains a stable tool for tracking comic values).  Around this time large single owner collections started showing up, many with identifying marks of provenance that would establish pedigree status.  

Fast forward a few years and Mitch would become a milestone figure in the hobby by purchasing a copy of Action #1 for the then unheard of price of $1801.26 from his long time friend dealer Theo Holstein.  The reason this became a milestone event was that it caught the public’s attention.  Maybe it was a slow news day, but being interviewed by Tom Snyder on the then popular late night Tomorrow Show drew much wider attention to a hobby that had heretofore remained under the radar.  

As the 70’s drew to a close, big budget film productions of superhero films became a reality.  And while DC’s Superman films followed by Batman laid down markers for the success of comics for based cultural acceptance, it would take another twenty five years for comic action films to make the next leap to mega star status with the enduring success of the Marvel Universe of characters.  

In the meantime, collecting took it’s next important milestone as comic values soared to a point where verified grading was needed to provide confidence in comic investment risk.  In 1999, third party grading became an important tool for verifyication so that the collecting community could trust grades.  For all the criticism and missteps along the way independent grading & secure holders became the backbone of the collecting hobby.  

So, that’s where we are today.  There haven’t been many earth shattering milestones in the hobby in recent years.  There’ve been a few major pedigree collections discovered, witnessed signature collecting has turned into a hobby and more analytical criteria for weighing the risk factors of comic investment is now available, but generally the hobby really hasn’t changed much of late, ...just some of the players.  Which brings me to the last point.  While the Covid-19 pandemic will likely have an impact on the hobby similar to the mortgage/banking crisis in 2008, there’s no reason to believe the comics market won’t recover over time in sync with the general public’s concerns over it.

Sorry 'bout the comic history tutorial and the earlier post hiccup.  This is my waaaay too-much-coffee man post of the day! 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Cat-Man_America
Upgrade from coffee to ale.

[Math Teacher]

14 hours ago, Axmen said:

Hey Mmehdy and all you other GA oligarchs - wouldnt the best plan be to liquidate all GA NOW before the coming crash - then repurchase everything when prices bottom out?  Im serious, I figure all you 1% ers understand the ins and outs of making $$ better than me.  But I don't understand why you would hold through a crash and wait years for the prices to recover - same with stocks or anything really.

People often say, "You can't time the market." It's hard to know if prices have actually bottomed out, which means it's hard to know when to start buying. Also, if you sell during the crash rather than before it starts, you're losing money on your previous investments. I decided to not sell any investments once the market started its downward turn, because I won't have to touch my investments 8.5 years from now. Also, there's no guarantee that you will find the books you want with the grades you want. I would just let it be.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Joe Ankenbauer

[Math Teacher]

1 hour ago, KCOComics said:

It's very hard to predict what the market will do at any given time.  I follow the old expression "it's not about timing the market,  it's about time in the market"  

When the market started crashing,  the last thing on my mind was selling. I was buying. Short term,  I'll take some bumps,  but you've got to play the long game. 

As for comics, I think most people do it for the love of collecting. Its not an investment,  it's a hobby.  It may make sense to dump them now from a financial stand point,  but financial gain isn't why I collect. 

 

I fulfilled both my wife's and my Roth IRA accounts for the entire year on April 1st. Will the stock market continue to go down? Maybe. But sooner or later, it will go back up. And the cheaper-priced mutual funds I purchased on April 1 will show a bigger return on investment.

[MSGComics]

5 hours ago, Ryan. said:

Yup. Most of the assumptions in this thread, as well as the boards at large, are that the comic collecting market is definitely going to depress. I'm not so sure about that. People find comfort in their hobbies. 

As far as selling off books now before the expected crash in order to rebuy them cheaper, I've learned the hard way that selling off rare GA in order to buy again later is a lot easier said than done. If the market does indeed depress, books are likely to become even harder to find. 

I agree - there is stuff I hustled to find in the right condition.  I do not want to do it again . . . 

 

 

[batman_fan]

45 minutes ago, SSkufan said:

I agree - there is stuff I hustled to find in the right condition.  I do not want to do it again . . . 

 

 

I don't even want to talk about some of the stuff I had to do to get my collection.