Disgusted with CGC at the moment... 4 4

[kav]

9 hours ago, DavidTheDavid said:

Can a 1.0 include something like a missing centerfold? I know it should be on the label, but I wonder what the grader notes include.

If I remember correctly from grading contests missing wrap = NG

[Deadpoolica]

[HuddyBee]

10 hours ago, DavidTheDavid said:

Can a 1.0 include something like a missing centerfold? I know it should be on the label, but I wonder what the grader notes include.

I know overstreet at one point allowed missing centerfolds as long as the book was readable, in the 1.0 grade, but don't know if CGC holds to those standards as well.

[HuddyBee]

2 hours ago, jcjames said:

Clearly you don't understand "risk" and how CGC NEARLY eliminates risk - it can't reduce risk of human error to 0% - no human can do that. But to state that CGC is "equivalent" to buying raw and is "the same risk" is absurd.

If I buy a book raw from say eBay described as "complete," and I receive the book and do a page count and now realize it is incomplete, a return can easily be made with the eBay seller. I've returned plenty of "incomplete" raw books described as complete through eBay with 0 problems. I don't think his point is that he will find less problems, simply that they might be easier to deal with.

When buying raw books the seller is responsible for providing condition, not grading per say, but pointing out obvious defects, ie. staple pops, spine splits, missing pages. So when an obvious defect is not described, or falsely described, the seller is liable and at fault. The buyer will get a refund in this case due to eBay's money back guarantee even if the seller is uncooperative. 

However when buying a CGC book the seller is not responsible to list defects. That is and was CGC's job. He is selling the book as a CGC 1.0, whatever that entails. Because of this the OP finds himself in this situation. Had the book been raw, and falsely described, he could have returned it with ease. Simply put, there are advantages to buying raw books, and this clearly is one.

Edited June 16, 2020 by HuddyBee

[wombat]

Sucks for the OP. Terrible situation. I will say I would never be in favor of a seller having to take a return after a book has been cracked out. You are not getting the item back in the condition you sold it in. And of course could absolutely be abused. 

[Sensei Ryan]

I've seen 0.5 grades on books missing multiple center wraps but the fact that they were noted as missing on label is the key.  Once again, if what the OP is stating is factual, then a mistake was made because I doubt that CGC would not neglect to indicate a missing CF on the label.  But I've not seen any 1.0's - at least that I can recall - with a missing CF.  We can't assume ANYTHING being stated by the OP without tangible proof - either the validity of the OP's claim NOR the possibility of a mistake of this magnitude by CGC - so ultimately this whole thread can only be conjecture at this point.  

Either way, a 1.0 isn't too far off from a 0.5 grade in terms of value (at least in most cases). 

[telerites]

This is as close as I get to something similar.  It is missing multiple page plus has some conservation but it is graded as a .5 and not a NG and I guess without the conservation, it would stay in the blue label.  Of course, the incomplete and missing pages are noted.

[The Lions Den]

4 hours ago, stock_rotation said:

Someone looked at that page, because there was a slip of microchamber paper inserted where the centerfold should be.

The microchamber paper is usually inserted by someone in the encapsulation room, not the graders. And most folks in the slab room wouldn't be aware of specific page counts or other critical aspects related to the book. If the grading room missed it, it's very likely going out the door that way.   

If I may put forward a theory, I'd propose that the other defects involving this book may have contributed to this situation. I'm not saying this is acceptable (because it's not) but it is understandable when you look at the other factors. The horrendous page quality, the overall poor condition and the multiple missing pieces were likely a huge distraction for the graders. This could have derailed the normal grading/page counting process, which unfortunately resulted in overlooking the missing centerfold. Sometimes graders will become so focused on solving one problem, they completely overlook another. Again, not acceptable, but I can see how it could happen.

Personally, I'd contact CGC and explain the situation to them. The worst they can do is say no...

[kav]

Just now, The Lions Den said:

The microchamber paper is usually inserted by someone in the encapsulation room, not the graders. And most folks in the slab room wouldn't be aware of specific page counts or other critical aspects related to the book. If the grading room missed it, it's very likely going out the door that way.   

If I may put forward a theory, I'd propose that the other defects involving this book may have contributed to this situation. I'm not saying this is acceptable (because it's not) but it is understandable when you look at the other factors. The horrendous page quality, the overall poor condition and the multiple missing pieces were likely a huge distraction for the graders. This could have derailed the normal grading/page counting process, which unfortunately resulted in overlooking the missing centerfold. Sometimes graders will become so focused on solving one problem, they completely overlook another. Again, not acceptable, but I can see how it could happen.

Personally, I'd contact CGC and explain the situation to them. The worst they can do is say no...

plus it is info they should have.  

[Erndog]

I think it's worth reaching out to them... I mean, they very likely wont do anything, but its something they should be made aware of.  

[stock_rotation]

[wombat]

For those that say he should contact CGC, what exactly would they hope CGC would do? Reimburse him the cost he paid for the purchase?

[kav]

42 minutes ago, wombat said:

For those that say he should contact CGC, what exactly would they hope CGC would do? Reimburse him the cost he paid for the purchase?

maybe they had other similar complaints and can track down source-who knows.  

[Sensei Ryan]

In fairness, how can CGC know this happened on their watch at this point?  Once the slab is cracked (unrecorded) it's all heresay at that point.  Sure, CGC can listen to the complaint but unless they had it noted in the graders notes (not sure if that's been thought of to check in this thread yet or not) that the CF was missing and they just somehow forgot to put it on the label, there's nothing that they could or should do as it's too late to blame them for it.  If true, it sucks for the OP, but it's too late to blame CGC. 

The biggest takeaway is that if you're going to crack a slab, consider recording it as proof that everything on the inside is complete in case the problem were to arise.  I know that's not the most realistic thing to do, but how often has something like this happened and it been found true with factual evidence to support it?  

[kav]

3 minutes ago, Sensei Ryan said:

In fairness, how can CGC know this happened on their watch at this point?  Once the slab is cracked (unrecorded) it's all heresay at that point.  Sure, CGC can listen to the complaint but unless they had it noted in the graders notes (not sure if that's been thought of to check in this thread yet or not) that the CF was missing and they just somehow forgot to put it on the label, there's nothing that they could or should do as it's too late to blame them for it.  If true, it sucks for the OP, but it's too late to blame CGC. 

The biggest takeaway is that if you're going to crack a slab, consider recording it as proof that everything on the inside is complete in case the problem were to arise.  I know that's not the most realistic thing to do, but how often has something like this happened and it been found true with factual evidence to support it?  

information is always good.  we dont know what CGC would do but that doesnt mean do not pass on information.

[kav]

If someone gets like a bike stolen they often dont call police.  "Whats the point?  they aint going to get my bike back".  But using information on crimes the police can increase patrols in area with lots of reports.  Information is good.

[Sensei Ryan]

2 minutes ago, kav said:

If someone gets like a bike stolen they often dont call police.  "Whats the point?  they aint going to get my bike back".  But using information on crimes the police can increase patrols in area with lots of reports.  Information is good.

I don't disagree with you on that the info is good to have - but I keep going back to the fact that there is no proof CGC did anything wrong.  Also, the police didn't steal the bike in the hypothetical scenario you provided so asking for help from them (the police) and blaming them (CGC) aren't the same thing.  What do you propose CGC do about the situation?  Just assume what the OP claims is true and provide compensation?  Or just be a sounding board for the OP to vent to?  Making a post on the boards is something that's already been done as it's brought about fruitful discussion on the CGC owned and supervised boards and the OP seems to know that it's too late to do anything about it.  But sure, he can call CGC and complain about it but I imagine that they'd say the same things we've all been saying on here in that they're sorry for the situation but that it's too late for them to do anything.

And I'm not being argumentative toward you or trying to be mean, btw...you seem like a nice buy based on the 53K+ comments of yours that I've read over the years.  I'm just saying that it's not necessarily something the OP can blame CGC for (and the title of the thread seems to steer it in that direction).

Once again, has anyone asked about checking the grader's notes for this book?  If the missing CG is noted in there, then it was just a mistake to leave it off the label.  If not, we're back to square one in the blame game.

[kav]

4 minutes ago, Sensei Ryan said:

I don't disagree with you on that the info is good to have - but I keep going back to the fact that there is no proof CGC did anything wrong.  Also, the police didn't steal the bike in the hypothetical scenario you provided so asking for help from them (the police) and blaming them (CGC) aren't the same thing.  What do you propose CGC do about the situation?  Just assume what the OP claims is true and provide compensation?  Or just be a sounding board for the OP to vent to?  Making a post on the boards is something that's already been done as it's brought about fruitful discussion on the CGC owned and supervised boards and the OP seems to know that it's too late to do anything about it.  But sure, he can call CGC and complain about it but I imagine that they'd say the same things we've all been saying on here in that they're sorry for the situation but that it's too late for them to do anything.

And I'm not being argumentative toward you or trying to be mean, btw...you seem like a nice buy based on the 53K+ comments of yours that I've read over the years.  I'm just saying that it's not necessarily something the OP can blame CGC for (and the title of the thread seems to steer it in that direction).

Once again, has anyone asked about checking the grader's notes for this book?  If the missing CG is noted in there, then it was just a mistake to leave it off the label.  If not, we're back to square one in the blame game.

Like i said maybe CGC has had similar complaints and can look into it and find some nexus.  

[F For Fake]

13 hours ago, kav said:

information is always good.  we dont know what CGC would do but that doesnt mean do not pass on information.

This is where I'm at with it. CGC likely won't do a thing, but they need to KNOW that this stuff is happening. 

[James J Johnson]

On 6/16/2020 at 1:54 PM, HuddyBee said:

If I buy a book raw from say eBay described as "complete," and I receive the book and do a page count and now realize it is incomplete, a return can easily be made with the eBay seller.

A return can be made for any reason, in general. Could be for a missing page, could be for one spine stress too many which leads to a differing of opinion between your perception of grade and the seller's description. "Item not as described" covers a plethora of reasons for dissatisfaction and a wish to return for refund, which a buyer can file and ebay will remedy if necessary in the event that the seller stonewalls the return request. .