The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Garystar]

8 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Could that six months comprise 3 months shipping (which has been mentioned many times) and, perhaps, 3 months in the US because the books were unsold returns? Or, does the fact that these were the last books in the UKPV hiatus have something to do with it?

However the following month marvels were UKPV which wouldn’t have been returns and could have been shipped direct to UK (say three months). If the ones in the film were 6 months behind then there could have been he next  three months of UKPVs already on sale before them?  

[Get Marwood & I]

26 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

So, if we date the likely short filming of Operation Third Form (1966) to late October / early November 1965

For DC

March-April / June 1965 cover dates:

From Mike's Comic Newsstand:

• Aquaman #20 - On Sale Date (US): 14th January 1965
• Capt. Storm #41 - On Sale Date (US): 14th January 1965
• Superboy #121 - On Sale Date (US): 1st April 1965

Again, assuming that they're filming in the UK on the 11th of November 1965 - that places the earliest DC comics on the rack a massive 10 months behind the US on sale dates.

That's quite a window to accommodate a US unsold returns process and then onward shipping to / distribution in the UK, isn't it 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Garystar said:

However the following month marvels were UKPV which wouldn’t have been returns and could have been shipped direct to UK (say three months). If the ones in the film were 6 months behind then there could have been he next  three months of UKPVs already on sale before them?  

My head hurts Gary. 

[Malacoda]

1 hour ago, Garystar said:

If we look at release dates rather than cover dates there is a pattern;

3/8/71	Daredevil 81	8p
	Thor 193	8p
10/8/71	Avengers 93	8p
	Hulk 145	8p
	Spider-man 102	8p
	Sub-mariner 43	8p
17/8/71	Amazing Adventures 9	6p
	Conan 11	6p
	Where Monsters Dwell 12	6p
24/8/71	Fantastic Four 116	6p

Looks like they began printing with the more logical 8p and then perhaps a marketing decision to sell at 6p - hence later ones printed at 6p and earlier ones stickered.

Great spot.  I need to pay more attention to release dates.  It's unusual that they're so key because distribution issues are usually across several months or between 2 months or at the smallest increment affect a single month, but this one pretty clearly comes down to weeks.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Malacoda

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, Malacoda said:

I need to pay more attention to release dates

They really help sometimes - great example here Rich of how they can help prove things:

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/415409-dc-uk-price-variants/?do=findComment&comment=11399451

[Get Marwood & I]

40 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Marvel

So let's speculate that they're filming in the UK on the 11th of November 1965 - that places the Marvel comics on the rack at 6 months behind the US on sale dates.

 

23 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

DC

Again, assuming that they're filming in the UK on the 11th of November 1965 - that places the earliest DC comics on the rack a massive 10 months behind the US on sale dates.

Thinking about it, six months for the Marvels because they didn't involve a US returns process and 10 months for DC because they did actually makes sense. In this example alone (hampered possibly by involving Marvels in the UKPV hiatus window), the indication seems to be that we may have all wildly underestimated the shipping time in the early years, no?  

[Malacoda]

4 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

 

Thinking about it, six months for the Marvels because they didn't involve a US returns process and 10 months for DC because they did actually makes sense  

What was the US returns process for DC? 

[Malacoda]

20 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

They really help sometimes - great example here Rich of how they can help prove things:

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/415409-dc-uk-price-variants/?do=findComment&comment=11399451

Yup, and that's not even in increments of full weeks. Even clearer example. 

[Get Marwood & I]

8 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

What was the US returns process for DC? 

I don't know specifically, but we do seem to have enough anecdotal evidence / commentary that there was one and the DCs that we received were the result. You would've thought that the US sellers would have had the comics on the racks for at least a month (bi-monthly titles etc) so the returns process might have taken 3 months or so on that basis.

Maybe, speculating:

• Aquaman #20 - On Sale Date (US): 14th January 1965
• Stays on US newsstand for 2 months to 14th March
• One month to send back to 'base', repackage ready for onward shipping to the UK - 14th April
• 3 month shipping to the UK - 14th July
• One month to prepare, stamp & distribute in the UK - 14th August
• Stays on UK newsstand for two months - 14th October

Something like that maybe?

[Malacoda]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I don't know specifically, but we do seem to have enough anecdotal evidence / commentary that there was one and the DCs that we received were the result. You would've thought that the US sellers would have had the comics on the racks for at least a month (bi-monthly titles etc) so the returns process might have taken 3 months or so on that basis.

Maybe, speculating:

• Aquaman #20 - On Sale Date (US): 14th January 1965
• Stays on US newsstand for 2 months to 14th March
• One month to send back to 'base', repackage ready for onward shipping to the UK - 14th April
• 3 month shipping to the UK - 14th July
• One month to distribute to the UK - 14th August
• Stays on UK newsstand for two months - 14th October

Something like that maybe?

 So just to be super clear, you’re talking about the timeframe of the distribution of new DC to and returns of unsold DC from US news vendors back to DC which were then shipped to the UK in quite a time-random way, compared to US Marvel which were printed as UKPV’s and shipped directly to the UK in a much more linear timebound way?  I also question the 3 months at sea thing and think there may another explanation for that. 
The amount of time they spent on the display shelf / spinner is an interesting question which would have been a key point in the Senate hearings if they had actually gone ahead and not just gone bonkers.  I think Richter actually got shot to pieces on this point at the time.  Shall I look it up? 
 

[Malacoda]

"Mr. RICHTER.   Now, this is a bill given to the newsdealer and the Saturday Evening Post was brought with these other types of horror magazines. Now the choice to the newsdealer is either store them away or display and sell them.  Now, a newsdealer, particularly a city newsdealer, operates in limited space. He has a news booth 6 by 5 by 3, 6 feet wide, 5 feet high, and 3 feet Wide. If he stores things in his newsstand, he must necessarily stand on the outside in all kinds of weather and they are out in good weather, bed, night and day. They are little people. They deal in pennies.  In most cases, I daresay in all cases, they display and sell them.   Now; this is April and magazines are coming out now for July. They are not returnable.
            MR. BEASER. You said that if he does not sell them he has to pay for them.
            Mr. RICHTER. He pays for them before he returns them. He is billed for them and he pays for them.
            Mr. BEASER. If he does not sell them?
            Mr. RICHTER. They are returnable, but they, are not returnable until outdated. The bill says no credit allowed for premature returns.  If a magazine is dated July, he cannot receive them in April and return them the next day. He will hold them until July."

This seemed like blatant cobblers to me the moment I read it, because during the 3 months the vendor has to stash the magazines & comics, another 2 months would have come in. On a permanent basis, 2/3rds of his stock would be returns waiting to go back. 
 

[Get Marwood & I]

13 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

 So just to be super clear, you’re talking about the timeframe of the distribution of new DC to and returns of unsold DC from US news vendors back to DC which were then shipped to the UK in quite a time-random way, compared to US Marvel which were printed as UKPV’s and shipped directly to the UK in a much more linear timebound way? 

Yep, albeit the Marvels in this case are stamped cents UKPV gap copies - not sure exactly how they came to the UK (i.e. direct from the printers or as unsold US returns in line with the DC model)

13 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

I also question the 3 months at sea thing and think there may another explanation for that. 
The amount of time they spent on the display shelf / spinner is an interesting question which would have been a key point in the Senate hearings if they had actually gone ahead and not just gone bonkers.  I think Richter actually got shot to pieces on this point at the time.  Shall I look it up? 
 

Yeah, go on. 

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

This seemed like blatant cobblers to me the moment I read it

It's not working for me either. 

[Get Marwood & I]

1921~2021

A worthy send off this afternoon, the kind of which we really are rather good at, here in Blighty. 

Cheerio, old bean. 

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, Malacoda said:

2/3rds of his stock would be returns waiting to go back. 

Not so. They would still be available for customers. At any time he would hold 3 deliveries, and return the oldest when a new delivery arrived. In case of any confusion over cover dates, many retailers wrote or stamped the arrival date on the cover.

[Malacoda]

5 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Not so. They would still be available for customers. At any time he would hold 3 deliveries, and return the oldest when a new delivery arrived. In case of any confusion over cover dates, many retailers wrote or stamped the arrival date on the cover.

Hi Albert - that quote is from the Senate hearings, so we're talking specifically about 2000 newsstands in NY, which are only 3ft deep ( the dimensions given above are clearly misunderstood.  I assume it means 6ft high. 5 ft wide and 3ft deep but we're talking about this.....)

 

[Albert Tatlock]

1 hour ago, Get Marwood & I said:

A worthy send off this afternoon, the kind of which we really are rather good at, here in Blighty. 

Cheerio, old bean. 

Yes. Shame the old boy didn't quite manage to knock up his century.

[Get Marwood & I]

8 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Yes. Shame the old boy didn't quite manage to knock up his century.

Wanted to avoid the associated fuss, I wouldn't mind betting, Albert. 

[Albert Tatlock]

31 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

6ft high. 5 ft wide and 3ft deep but we're talking about this...

No room there for spinner racks, unless the city authorities would permit them to encroach upon the pavement, beg your pardon, sidewalk. And they would only be an option on a fine day, and possibly an unwanted temptation to the dimeless and/or light-fingered.

But nationwide, there would have been many outlets not subjected to such constraints, with plenty of room for 3 months supply. Not everywhere is as crowded as Manhattan.

And 3 months to cross the Atlantic? Any shipping line that could not do a lot better than that would have gone out of business. NYC to Liverpool is 3300 miles. A three month voyage covering that distance would proceed at 1 and a half knots. Good job the U-boat menace was over.

[Albert Tatlock]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Wanted to avoid the associated fuss, I wouldn't mind betting, Albert. 

From all accounts he was looking forward to that knees-up.