The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Malacoda]

2 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

And 3 months to cross the Atlantic? Any shipping line that could not do a lot better than that would have gone out of business. NYC to Liverpool is 3300 miles. A three month voyage covering that distance would proceed at 1 and a half knots. Good job the U-boat menace was over.

I agree. I believe it takes between 10 and 20 days to cross the Atlantic in a cargo vessel. That's modern day. of course, but I suspect the Atlantic hasn't changed much since the 60's.  ****Breaking news.  I just checked.  The Atlantic is growing by about 5 cms per year, so it's a good 3 metres wider than it was in the 60's****

[Albert Tatlock]

17 hours ago, Malacoda said:

Then they went bankrupt in 1966 and were bought out by IND, which is when they moved to the first office in London.

They were in London much earlier. See attached the inside cover of Mad magazine UK edition No 1, October 1959.

[Malacoda]

Wow  Fair play.  I had seen Strato as HQ'd as Oadby.  Didn't look later.  I am chastened. 

BTW, check out this Strato, printed in Amsterdam.  But let's not get into that. 

 

[Malacoda]

On 4/15/2021 at 7:28 AM, Garystar said:

I noticed this phenomenon looking at T&P stamps on Marvels and surmised either;

In April 1969 UKPVs restarted (after a year and half gap when only T&P stamps appeared) at 1/- price, however unlike previous periods of UKPVs there is an abundance of stamped copies also. I speculated either;

·       1)  There were reduced numbers of UKPVs which meant T&P needed to fill the gap with stamped cents copies

·         2) Demand had increased to the extent that T&P needed more supply

·        3)  World Distributors had taken over distribution of UKPVs and T&P stamps were in competition? (I can’t find when World Distributors took over from Thorpe and Porter).

From restart of UKPVs in April 1969 for around 6 months 1-9 stamping continues albeit in a ratherrandom way, then all stamps become number 3. For one month, August 1970, the stamp becomes “5p/1/-“ and thereafter all stamps are T&P – ampersand rather than a number. The last stamp I can find is July 1971. From here on in Marvels are either UKPV or they are non-distributed – no more stamps.

From April 1969 onwards I found no instances of MAJOR TITLES (Avengers, Daredevil, Spidey, FF etc) with a T&P stamp which didn’t exist as a UKPV. However lesser titles such as Peter The Little Pest (posted) Kull, Kid Colt do appear as T&P stamps where no UKPV exists. There might be something in this I’ll have a ponder.

Just realised that I picked up the point about World Distributors and we ran off with that (and you demonstrated that my theory that it was June 71 was off by a month as there were some T&P's for July) but I didn't answer your main point and therefore could have saved you some pondering.  

Marvel's printers up to the beginning of 68 were Eastern Color, who had more or less invented the comic book. At this time, Eastern were looking to get out of comic books. They were planning to move from the plant at Waterbury (where they had been since 1928) and move to new premises in Avon.  They were planning to buy new presses and specialise in printing the funny papers (comic sections in newspapers) which is actually where they had started in 1924. 
So in 1967, it became clear that Eastern were no longer a fit for Marvel and Marvel started talking to the mammoth comic printers World, in Sparta Illinois. 
Now, the Marvel Explosion of 68 predates Curtis, so I don’t know if Marvel moved to Sparta because all the new titles were on the plate…..or maybe the move to Sparta is what helped to facilitate the new titles?

But anyway, in December 1967  you see the disappearance of the UKPV’s and then the next month, Jan 68 is the last of the Marvels printed at Waterbury.  
And you don’t see any UKPV’s until Marvel get bedded in at Sparta.  This may seem like a crazy long time to do this, but bear in mind that in 1968, Marvel is sold to Perfect Film, there’s an explosion of new titles, they change distributors from IND to Curtis, I mean Marvel is practically unrecognisable by 1969, so it’s not really a surprise that no one was focussed on the UKPV’s.   I have no evidence to support this, but we're talking about a change to the printing at the exact moment they changed the printers.....

Edited April 17, 2021 by Malacoda

[Get Marwood & I]

34 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

But anyway, in December 1967  you see the disappearance of the UKPV’s and then the next month, Jan 68 is the last of the Marvels printed at Waterbury.  
And you don’t see any UKPV’s until Marvel get bedded in at Sparta.  This may seem like a crazy long time to do this, but bear in mind that in 1968, Marvel is sold to Perfect Film, there’s an explosion of new titles, they change distributors from IND to Cadence, I mean Marvel is practically unrecognisable by 1969, so it’s not really a surprise that no one was focussed on the UKPV’s.   I have no evidence to support this, but we're talking about a change to the printing at the exact moment they changed the printers.....

I like those kinds of coincidences. In the absence of actual documentation they can be very indicative. Keep going, Rich. I'm enjoying seeing how overlaying your knowledge of the printer locations and dates is shaping up...

[Malacoda]

5 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

I like those kinds of coincidences. In the absence of actual documentation they can be very indicative. Keep going, Rich. I'm enjoying seeing how overlaying your knowledge of the printer locations and dates is shaping up...

Indeed. I feel it's your job to read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe and my job to point out that the chewing gum factory actually burnt down 3 years ago and there shouldn't even be any chewing gum. 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

Indeed. I feel it's your job to read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe and my job to point out that the chewing gum factory actually burnt down 3 years ago and there shouldn't even be any chewing gum. 

...and yet the chewing gum exists and has a T&P price stamp on it. 

[themagicrobot]

I'm waiting for a new car that's coming from Mexico. Seems it takes 3 weeks to cross the Atlantic (including loading and unloading) so perhaps comics in the 1960s would have taken a similar time. And lots of the posts above confirm my recollection that circa 1965 all DCs arriving "new" to the spinner racks had a coverdate that was at least three/four months behind the current month we were in which fits in with the spinner rack in the film.

PS: Should I send this in to be graded and encapsulated?  Or give it the dog to play with?

 

[Get Marwood & I]

5 minutes ago, themagicrobot said:

I'm waiting for a new car that's coming from Mexico. Seems it takes 3 weeks to cross the Atlantic (including loading and unloading) so perhaps comics in the 1960s would have taken a similar time. And lots of the posts above confirm my recollection that circa 1965 all DCs arriving "new" to the spinner racks had a coverdate that was at least three/four months behind the current month we were in which fits in with the spinner rack in the film.

Fits in well doesn't it. I wonder if there were different boat speeds based on pricing, with 3 months being the cheapest. I recall UK to US post office prices for surface mail (boat) indicating very long delivery times. The books were ballast some sources say - maybe speed wasn't a consideration.

5 minutes ago, themagicrobot said:

PS: Should I send this in to be graded and encapsulated?  Or give it the dog to play with?

You mean he hasn't already?

[Malacoda]

On 1/12/2021 at 6:17 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Evening 

Still waiting for the Monolith to sod off so I can flood the joint with pence blathery:

 

I don't think I've mentioned Red Circle Comics at all in the thread so far, probably due to the fact that this is the only book I've seen to date that gives a hint of UK participation:

 

 

 

Not to add to the carnage, but there are also Red Circle comics from Martin Goodman scattered sporadically (natch) between 1944 and 1959.  Mind you, you can probably pick words at random out of the dictionary and there's a good chance they will be the names of companies that Martin Goodman owned at some point. 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

Mind you, you can probably pick words at random out of the dictionary and there's a good chance they will be the names of companies that Martin Goodman owned at some point. 

Dog Pot Yoghurt Comics?

[Malacoda]

1 minute ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Dog Pot Yoghurt Comics?

Was that dog p-o-o and the site auto corrected it? 

[themagicrobot]

Talking of comics as ballast I was once in London in the early 1970s and on a saturday street market there was a stall selling water stained comics along with paperbacks etc. The odd thing was the stall only had a dozen different issues (cents Marvels I recall) but they were stacked up probably 30 or 40 of each title. 

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, Malacoda said:

Was that dog p-o-o and the site auto corrected it? 

No, then it would've been Dog Spoon Yoghurt. It's an odd filter, really. 

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, themagicrobot said:

Talking of comics as ballast I was once in London in the early 1970s and on a saturday street market there was a stall selling water stained comics along with paperbacks etc. The odd thing was the stall only had a dozen different issues (cents Marvels I recall) but they were stacked up probably 30 or 40 of each title. 

Cool. Buy any?

[themagicrobot]

Of course. I bought 10 Spidermans (dated 1973 or 1974?) that I guess weren't distributed here through the usual channels then as I sold them on at a profit.

[Get Marwood & I]

11 minutes ago, themagicrobot said:

Of course. I bought 10 Spidermans (dated 1973 or 1974?) that I guess weren't distributed here through the usual channels then as I sold them on at a profit.

Too long ago to remember if they were pence, cents or stamped I suppose. Be nice to go back and look with todays eyes wouldn’t it. 

[Garystar]

I also remember 1973/1974 picking up water damaged Marvels - these were always cents and quite often were issues otherwise Not Distributed. A few I can recall getting - cap america #150, kull #6, Spider-Man #105 and 121 (I still have the 121). 

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, Garystar said:

I also remember 1973/1974 picking up water damaged Marvels - these were always cents and quite often were issues otherwise Not Distributed. A few I can recall getting - cap america #150, kull #6, Spider-Man #105 and 121 (I still have the 121). 

Could've been from the boat. Or maybe Thorpe left the tap on. 

[Malacoda]

On 11/30/2020 at 4:22 PM, Garystar said:

Anyone know who Dennis Juba is?

Dennis Juba was the MD of T&P.  Fred Thorpe met him during the war and gave him a job in his first company after the war (before T&P).  He worked at T&P from the start and rose up the ranks from the packing department  to foreman to become MD.  It was actually him that Steve Chibnall interviewed for that article, although Fred Thorpe was still alive at the time (he died 7 years later).  Dennis Juba died in 2012.