The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Malacoda]

5 hours ago, themagicrobot said:

Regarding Timely in 1958 perhaps they used up some inventory for Strange Tales etc but Stan must have still been churning out new scripts for Patsy and Hedy and the Westerns. It couldn't be a one man operation as there were artists to pay, accounts to deal with, ads to solicit and there must have been others dealing with layouts and design of the books. Not to mention whoever dealt with licensing/despatching the material being reprinted in black and white over here. Stan may have been busy but he must have had help. He was no Alan Class

Not sure that all stands up. Yes, clearly, there were back office staff.  It was only Timely comics that was put on hiatus. Magazine Management and the rest of Goodmans 59 shell companies carried on. Goodman's edict to shut everyone down clearly just referred to whichever creatives would have been covered by the stockpile of finished art. However, if Stan had been amassing, for several years, unusable / sub par material (in quantities enough to make Goodman blow a gasket), then why would that have excluded Patsy and the Westerns or the covers?  I haven't re-read my bibles (Howe & Daniels) for a while, but I think everyone was first put on freelance status (due to the market downturn & distribution crisis) and then there was no work for anyone until the fabled cupboard was empty.  I think Joe Sinnott was the first person who got any work and that was six months later. One of the freelancers in 56/57 was Jack Kirby (Frank Giacoia having mediated between Jack and Stan/Goodman). He drew 20 stories for Timely in 56/57 but even he was sent packing and got nothing further from them for another year. 

I think you're right.  I think there would have been covers and layouts and stuff to do, but I imagine Goodman covered that from existing resources elsewhere in his labyrinthine empire. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Malacoda

[themagicrobot]

 

In the States Drugstores etc did indeed tear off the title from covers to get refunded on unsold copies. Comics were too cheap to bother sending back. They shouldn't have done but the stores often tore the rest of the cover off and sold the coverless comics at half price. There still appear to be many old/key coverless comics sold on eBay USA.

I've never witnessed comic covers here with the logo neatly cut like that. Surely it would be too time-consuming for the newsagent to do that.

Other posts here seem to agree that T&P comics were sold to the newsagents non-return and so remained on the spinner racks until eventually sold. However I heard a rumour that T&P reps would sometimes credit unsold issues as the only way to persuade the newsagent to buy a further batch of new releases.

[Malacoda]

25 minutes ago, themagicrobot said:

 

In the States Drugstores etc did indeed tear off the title from covers to get refunded on unsold copies. Comics were too cheap to bother sending back. They shouldn't have done but the stores often tore the rest of the cover off and sold the coverless comics at half price. There still appear to be many old/key coverless comics sold on eBay USA.

I've never witnessed comic covers here with the logo neatly cut like that. Surely it would be too time-consuming for the newsagent to do that.

Other posts here seem to agree that T&P comics were sold to the newsagents non-return and so remained on the spinner racks until eventually sold. However I heard a rumour that T&P reps would sometimes credit unsold issues as the only way to persuade the newsagent to buy a further batch of new releases.

I'm genuinely gobsmacked that you've never seen this.  It is so common that it's literally written into the Overstreet definition of GD. 

2.0 GOOD (GD): Shows substantial wear; often considered a "reading copy." Cover shows significant wear and may even be detached. Cover reflectivity is low and in some cases completely absent. Book-length creases and dimples may be present. Rounded corners are more common. Moderate soiling, staining, discoloration and foxing may be present. The largest piece allowed missing from the front or back cover is usually a 1/2" triangle or a 1/4" square, although some Silver Age books such as 1960s Marvels have had the price corner box clipped from the top left front cover and may be considered Good if they would otherwise have graded higher. Tape and other forms of amateur repair are common in Silver Age and older books. Spine roll is likely. May have up to a 2" spine split. Staples may be degraded, replaced or missing. Moderate staple tears and stress lines may be present, as well as rust migration. Paper is (no worse than) brown but not brittle. Centerfold may be loose or detached. Moderate interior tears may be present.

I'm sure it's a US thing with returns, as with torn off covers and the pic Kevin posted, but I've bought numerous copies like this in the UK. Usually if I buy a box of readers or similarly Yikes-conditioned comics, there will be a couple of these walking wounded in there. 
 

[Get Marwood & I]

3 hours ago, Malacoda said:

Did I miss much? No? Excellent

You only read Robot's posts?

Welcome to the thread Rich. Took your bloody time but better late than never. 

Boys - this is the chap I referred to back in 1982 who was doing the ND stuff. Give him a warm welcome won't you 

[themagicrobot]

The image of Captain America 100 that you posted was originally uploaded by someone from Canada. It's not a UK thing to the best of my knowledge although I've owned pleenty of second hand 60s/70s Marvels that had "Marvel stamps" cut out of the insides by crazy kids.

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, themagicrobot said:

The image of Captain America 100 that you posted was originally uploaded by someone from Canada. It's not a UK thing to the best of my knowledge although I've owned pleenty of second hand 60s/70s Marvels that had "Marvel stamps" cut out of the insides by crazy kids.

It's not a thing for me either - I haven't seen many like that on my travels and always assumed it was a kid cutting it out for his scrapbook or something. 

[Malacoda]

10 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Welcome to the thread Rich. Took your bloody time but better late than never. 

Always late, but worth the wait. 

[themagicrobot]

Who on earth would deface a comic?!? You have to be careful as many of the UK "Fantastic" Power Comics for sale on ebygumBay are missing their back covers as they were "pinups" to display on your bedroom wall. Yes I was guilty until I replaced them with images of Madeline Smith.

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, Malacoda said:

Always late, but worth the wait. 

We'll be the judge of that 

[Malacoda]

3 minutes ago, themagicrobot said:

Who on earth would deface a comic?!? You have to be careful as many of the UK "Fantastic" Power Comics for sale on ebygumBay are missing their back covers as they were "pinups" to display on your bedroom wall. Yes I was guilty until I replaced them with images of Madeline Smith.

Really?  Can't see the attraction myself [bites fist, runs cold shower]

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, themagicrobot said:

Who on earth would deface a comic?!? You have to be careful as many of the UK "Fantastic" Power Comics for sale on ebygumBay are missing their back covers as they were "pinups" to display on your bedroom wall. Yes I was guilty until I replaced them with images of Madeline Smith.

I quite liked her but she had her knockers

 

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, Malacoda said:

Really?  Can't see the attraction myself [bites fist, runs cold shower]

Did he really have 'JB' sewn into his robe? That's cool isn't it.

[Malacoda]

3 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

Did he really have 'JB' sewn into his robe? That's cool isn't it.

Seriously, THAT'S what you took from that photo? 

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, Malacoda said:

Seriously, THAT'S what you took from that photo? 

Jinormous Bazookas 

[Malacoda]

22 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

It's not a thing for me either - I haven't seen many like that on my travels and always assumed it was a kid cutting it out for his scrapbook or something. 

[ahem] getting back on topic.....yes, there's a couple of threads on here discussing the missing corner box, but again, not generating much interest, which means it must be less prevalent that I think it is.  Having said that, it's literally IN the Overstreet def. of GD.  I mean, surely that must indicate it's a biggie?

 

[Get Marwood & I]

Just now, Malacoda said:

Having said that, it's literally IN the Overstreet def. of GD

Overstreet = you ess of a.

Rarely a publication to consider in matters Blighty. 

[Garystar]

I would like to add something insightful however all day tomorrow I will now be watching The Vampire Lovers. 

[Malacoda]

On 10/29/2020 at 9:36 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

From the sample, for this period, we can see:

• Where Marvels have UKPVs there are no stamped copies (cents or pence

Just to be clear, this may hold true for the sample period, but we know that there are inkstamps and UKPV's for the same issue in other places.  It would be interesting to know what causes this inasmuch as  it might offer some clues to other things. One of them, I believe, marks the changeover point between T&P and World.  But it's not this one.  This is just a random example. 

[Malacoda]

20 minutes ago, Garystar said:

I would like to add something insightful however all day tomorrow I will now be watching The Vampire Lovers. 

Hard to imagine a more constructive use of one's time. 

[Malacoda]

6 hours ago, themagicrobot said:

Other posts here seem to agree that T&P comics were sold to the newsagents non-return and so remained on the spinner racks until eventually sold. However I heard a rumour that T&P reps would sometimes credit unsold issues as the only way to persuade the newsagent to buy a further batch of new releases.

You know that bit at the start of the Three Musketeers where D'Artagnan arrives and, on his first day in Paris, picks a fight with all of the Musketeers......

1)    On page 12 Albert Tatlock tells us his uncle ran a newsagent: 
“He told me that he sent unsold comics back, and I have been there on  more than one occasion when he was bundling up comics and magazines to be collected.”
2)    SOR has long been the standard practice for newspapers & periodicals in UK newsagents, once they meet the minimum entry level and credit qualifications. 
3)    We know that T&P collected returns on DC because of the Double Doubles. 
4)    We know that T&P were buying comics at a fraction of the retail price. There were obviously a number of other costs involved, but in 1959 the exchange rate was about £1 = $2.81.  We know that IND were exporting comics rather than take the 30% to 50% returns and were selling to T&P below wholesale prices.  In the 70’s Phil Seuling was buying all his stock for the comic shops at up to 60% discounts, and that wasn’t even distressed inventory, so let’s assume that canny Fred Thorpe got his comics at at least 60% discounts on the cover price.  Those 2 facts alone mean Fred was buying comics (in $) for about onepence ha’penny each and they were retailing  for ninepence.  I speculate that he would happily have a done a sale or return deal to secure the one million comics per month he was shifting from 1957 onwards because he was getting them so cheap, he would have been mad not to.  Even if he was taking 50% returns and burning the lot, he’d still be coining it. 
5)    We know that in the 70’s, World Distributors took returns from all of their newsagents & wholesalers, which to me is at least suggestive that T&P did the same. 
6)    We know anecdotally that many 60’s and 70’s comic fans reported finding far more availability generally and specifically availability of back issues at seaside towns during the summer.  We know that Alan Class collected back in all of his returns so that he could re-distribute the following summer.  From 1966, T&P was part of IND, which from 1970 was part of Warner Communications.  Warner operated as 5 brands in the UK:  adult content under GBD (General Book Distributors), Hardback children’s annuals under Brown Watson,  imported US comics (DC, Marvel, Charlton, Dell, Gold Key, Tower, Archie etc) all still used Thorpe & Porter, Williams for titles being co-published with European countries and Top Sellers for everything else.  Dez Skinn worked for Williams: 

“A problem with distributing so many US comics was all the unsold returns piling up. What T&P did, as well as redistribute seaside summer 6d stamped sale copies, was rip off the covers and rebind them into four-issue collections, or Double Double Comics as they were known.”

Note the pre-decimal 6d. I think also somewhere here, people made the point about comics being re-stamped with lower prices. Not sure if relevant to this?

I believe many newsagents did not exercise their option of sale or return (maybe because they were on a good percentage) and kept the comics in the hope of a few more sales, but I think T&P operated on SOR.