How many pressers do we have here?

[Red Hook]

Not the RHMSS!

 

Yes....no one expects......the RHMSS!

[esquirecomics]

Here's another good example. I think the top of this book would benefit greatly from pressing.

 

 

Thats Off-White to White pages? Looks kinda tannish for the part showing.

[esquirecomics]

I dont have any of these answers, but, I think I know who you can ask.......

 

You don't know what defects are removed by NDP pressing? Cool. One more bit of evidence to support my theory that the ones most against pressing are the ones who know the least about it.

Scott, first off, I think Aman was just trying to be funny.

 

So was I.

 

Second, why the deliberately inflammatory comment?

 

See response to your first comment.

 

Does someone have to have studied pressing comprehensively before they're allowed to opine that they don't like to see tampering with a book's natural condition? Do I have to have studied the effects of steroids or EPO on the human body in detail before I decide that I would prefer athletic performances to be unaided by artificial enhancements? The more some of us rail against pressing, the more extreme it seems you've become in defending the practice, almost to the point that soon, not only will you say it's not a bad thing, but that it's actually a fine and noble thing to do to a book.

 

Extreme how? By noting the fact that the people who are most against it understand it the least? Tim, I notice that whenever I disagree with people (especially you) about something, after a given period of time, you whine about my method of "defending" whatever viewpoint I hold. Do I do that to you? No. If you don't like what I'm saying, then you'll just have to live with it because I'm not going to stifle my opinions just because you and a couple of other guys disagree with me. You guys won't shut up about the pressing issue, so why should I?

 

My views on pressing haven't changed one bit:

 

* If someone wants to press his own book, fine. Press away.

* I do not believe it will do any harm at all to the book if done properly and everyone I've spoken to who actually knows how to do it properly, and everything I've read about conservators using the technique of pressing, tells me that professional pressing poses no danger to a comic book or to any paper artifact that is not especially fragile/brittle/pressure sensitive (like a painting with raised artwork).

* Whether it's "fine and noble" is a value judgment that is up to each of us to make. I don't personally consider it "fine and noble," but I don't think it's a bad thing to do to a book either. It is a process that will yield limited or no results in most cases, and dramatic results in a few cases. It is also a decision that a book's owner is entitled to make. Until there is a clear industry standard stating that pressing must be disclosed, I would not hold it against a seller who sold a pressed book without disclosure -- but I would hold it against him if he were asked specifically about pressing and lied about it. If someone asks about pressing, it should be disclosed, no ifs, ands or buts, because that buyer is someone who cares about pressing and the seller has no right to lie about it.

* If a clear industry standard emerges that requires sellers to disclose pressing affirmatively, then I would hold it against any seller who does not affirmatively disclose pressing.

* The fact that I disagree with your opinion about pressing means only that I disagree with your opinion about pressing. It means I don't personally care if someone sells me a pressed book and that I would pay the same for a pressed book as I would for an unpressed book. If you are going to go the route that Chris did and accuse me (directly or subtly) of engaging in something you view as unethical conduct simply because I disagree with you on this issue and my opinion is firm, then you and I are going to have a problem.

 

Frankly, I think Scott and Tim have some sort of man-boy love competition going on. That would explain a lot. They just don't realize it yet.

[THE_BEYONDER]

If you are going to go the route that Chris did and accuse me (directly or subtly) of engaging in something you view as unethical conduct simply because I disagree with you on this issue and my opinion is firm, then you and I are going to have a problem.

 

For the record, I never accused you of engaging in unethical conduct. Go back and read my post again. I was merely questioning your loyalties.

 

The FFB before me today....is not the FFB I met in Chicago. 'Nuff said.

[FFB]

If you are going to go the route that Chris did and accuse me (directly or subtly) of engaging in something you view as unethical conduct simply because I disagree with you on this issue and my opinion is firm, then you and I are going to have a problem.

 

For the record, I never accused you of engaging in unethical conduct. Go back and read my post again. I was merely questioning your loyalties.

 

The FFB before me today....is not the FFB I met in Chicago. 'Nuff said.

 

I did read your post before. You asked if I post here with a clear conscience. How else am I to take that?

 

As for your last comment, to quote myself from before:

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

If you are going to go the route that Chris did and accuse me (directly or subtly) of engaging in something you view as unethical conduct simply because I disagree with you on this issue and my opinion is firm, then you and I are going to have a problem.

 

For the record, I never accused you of engaging in unethical conduct. Go back and read my post again. I was merely questioning your loyalties.

 

The FFB before me today....is not the FFB I met in Chicago. 'Nuff said.

 

I did read your post before. You asked if I post here with a clear conscience. How else am I to take that?

 

I believe you know more than you are letting on.

 

As for your last comment, to quote myself from before:

 

 

 

BTW- Just how long has CGC been retaining your services?

[FFB]

If you are going to go the route that Chris did and accuse me (directly or subtly) of engaging in something you view as unethical conduct simply because I disagree with you on this issue and my opinion is firm, then you and I are going to have a problem.

 

For the record, I never accused you of engaging in unethical conduct. Go back and read my post again. I was merely questioning your loyalties.

 

The FFB before me today....is not the FFB I met in Chicago. 'Nuff said.

 

I did read your post before. You asked if I post here with a clear conscience. How else am I to take that?

 

I believe you know more than you are letting on.

 

Like I said, think what you want. At the end of the day, it's not going to change my life at all.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I'm over it.

[Timulty]

You know, I think all GA collectors are going to have to realize that someday, they will have to have some sort of restoration/conservation(reserver snickers for later) done. GA have a shelf life(no pun intended). Eventually, the Acids in the paper will eat the book away. We might be able to protect them for 3 or 4 hundred years tops. Granted, I will be dead by then. I believe the pressing will not affect the longevity of a book. Improper restoration will. So, do I consider pressing to change my view on buying a book no. But for the rest of you who do. Go ahead and don't buy. Force the market to lower the price. Make it easier to finish my runs.

[mstryinspc-migration]

I gotta ask this anyone here into cars I am not but since when are car collectors of EXPENSIVE cars saying its been authentically repainted or the seats been authentic recovered with period material worthless? THEY DON'T! The car is the same car as it was off the line if its 40 years old ther is NO WAY paint or leather will last that long completely unscathed.

 

Then WHY apply this insane standard to a paper book that was never meant to last a month or two?

A comic could curl form nothing more than being laid flat on a table and being untouched in a humid enviroment. Pressing is nothing more than repeating the same procedure the press rollers themselves perform when its produced. Replacing a missing piece from a book, color touching, spine reinforcement are restoration. Tear repairs are conservation and are obvious.

No damage to a comic is ORIGINAL! it is destruction therefore any amount of work to bringing it back to its original state is repair not destruction.

Do you think a collector of Lincoln signatures would pass on a signed bill from congress because a conservator repaired the tear in the lower left hand corner? Again you are kidding only yourself if you say they would. Does it affect the price yes but all you anti restorers seem like you act out of anger rather than practicalllity. Anger that maybe you got ripped off somewhere back in the day. If you want to collect these books then restoring some of them is the only way to go because most of the early ones never ever were goiong to last unscathed, and later ones had plenty of problems and thing that were never intended tobe there but are.

 

You would let your 57 thunderbird get a rust spot and not fix it 'cause that would be retoration?

Why wouldn't you do that to comic?

[THE_BEYONDER]

I gotta ask this anyone here into cars I am not but since when are car collectors of EXPENSIVE cars saying its been authentically repainted or the seats been authentic recovered with period material worthless? THEY DON'T! The car is the same car as it was off the line if its 40 years old ther is NO WAY paint or leather will last that long completely unscathed.

 

Then WHY apply this insane standard to a paper book that was never meant to last a month or two?

A comic could curl form nothing more than being laid flat on a table and being untouched in a humid enviroment. Pressing is nothing more than repeating the same procedure the press rollers themselves perform when its produced. Replacing a missing piece from a book, color touching, spine reinforcement are restoration. Tear repairs are conservation and are obvious.

No damage to a comic is ORIGINAL! it is destruction therefore any amount of work to bringing it back to its original state is repair not destruction.

Do you think a collector of Lincoln signatures would pass on a signed bill from congress because a conservator repaired the tear in the lower left hand corner? Again you are kidding only yourself if you say they would. Does it affect the price yes but all you anti restorers seem like you act out of anger rather than practicalllity. Anger that maybe you got ripped off somewhere back in the day. If you want to collect these books then restoring some of them is the only way to go because most of the early ones never ever were goiong to last unscathed, and later ones had plenty of problems and thing that were never intended tobe there but are.

 

You would let your 57 thunderbird get a rust spot and not fix it 'cause that would be retoration?

Why wouldn't you do that to comic?

 

I'm sorry, but your post is completely ridiculous. How does pressing a comic help to preserve it?

[mstryinspc-migration]

I am sorry but your response is utterly ridiculous.......since you clearly didn't get what my point was that there is serious difference between replacement repair and conservative repair, and collectors need to start accepting that or that will be the end of collecting.

 

As to pressing itself If pressing is prevents buckling & curling which INCREASES as the surface area exposed to humidity as the book the is exposed to humidity then its actually not only conserving the book its is saving it. Take two stacks of paper and lay them in a humid environment one neatly stacked and one fanned out and you see the fanned out ones edges curl up while the stacked one only the top one or two sheets will curl. Now remember plain paper has no ink on it and will curl faster and more intensely than printed paper.

 

Then think about a spine rolled comic and tell why pressing will not preserve a comic 60 years old?

 

And don't dare give me my post is ridiculous [embarrassing lack of self control] anymore, that is not fair to me or to the forum reason you tell me WHY I am wrong with PROOF. Not I believe your ridiculous. If you want to play the ridicule game go back to 18th century France they loved that then you will fit in quiet nicely and by the way you'd be beheaded in about ten minutes.

[THE_BEYONDER]

How does a spine roll lead to the further deterioration of a comic?

[THE_BEYONDER]

It was wrong of me to generalize about your entire post...and for that I apologize. Let's take a closer look.

 

I gotta ask this anyone here into cars I am not but since when are car collectors of EXPENSIVE cars saying its been authentically repainted or the seats been authentic recovered with period material worthless? THEY DON'T! The car is the same car as it was off the line if its 40 years old ther is NO WAY paint or leather will last that long completely unscathed.

 

Noone is claiming that pressed/trimmed/restored books are "worthless". They are valued less...just as a car with recovered seats & a new paint job would be valued less than one that's completely original.

 

Then WHY apply this insane standard to a paper book that was never meant to last a month or two?

 

 

 

A comic could curl form nothing more than being laid flat on a table and being untouched in a humid enviroment. Pressing is nothing more than repeating the same procedure the press rollers themselves perform when its produced.

 

Nothing more? We're discussing undisclosed pressing, which is manipulative & deceptive

 

No damage to a comic is ORIGINAL! it is destruction therefore any amount of work to bringing it back to its original state is repair not destruction.

 

Can you please explain to me the difference between "repair" & restoration in this context?

Do you think a collector of Lincoln signatures would pass on a signed bill from congress because a conservator repaired the tear in the lower left hand corner? Again you are kidding only yourself if you say they would. Does it affect the price yes

 

I agree with your above statement.

 

but all you anti restorers seem like you act out of anger rather than practicalllity. Anger that maybe you got ripped off somewhere back in the day.

 

An absolutely baseless assumption.

 

If you want to collect these books then restoring some of them is the only way to go because most of the early ones never ever were goiong to last unscathed, and later ones had plenty of problems and thing that were never intended tobe there but are.

 

 

You would let your 57 thunderbird get a rust spot and not fix it 'cause that would be retoration?

 

No. I would fix the rust spot, and were I to sell the car....I'd disclose that "repair".

 

Why wouldn't you do that to comic?

 

I probably would. Were I to own a book with rusty staples, I'd consider having them replaced to avoid any migration.

[tth2]

I gotta ask this anyone here into cars I am not but since when are car collectors of EXPENSIVE cars saying its been authentically repainted or the seats been authentic recovered with period material worthless? THEY DON'T! The car is the same car as it was off the line if its 40 years old ther is NO WAY paint or leather will last that long completely unscathed.

Hey, if car collectors don't want to be as anal as HG comic collectors, that's cool. More power to them.

 

You would let your 57 thunderbird get a rust spot and not fix it 'cause that would be retoration?

Why wouldn't you do that to comic?

You're missing the point. A HG collector is looking for a comic that doesn't have the "rust spot" in the first place. If we could all just buy defective comics and then restore them to looking good as new, what would be the fun of that? Where would be the challenge?

[Aman619]

it seems people keep showing up and pointing out that other collectibles fields embrace or tolerate restoration techniques. But its just not germane to comics collecting where we have always frowned on it. Apples and oranges.

 

In 50 years will we "see the light" and realize its time to protect our fragile paper prizes? perhaps. But until such time, UN-touched books will hold the highest values. Why are people "fixing" books and not disclosing it if its "okay" to do it?

[esquirecomics]

For one thing, again, there is a distinction in our discussions between simply pressing a book and whether that is a good or bad thing, and non-disclosure of pressing, regardless of whether it is a good or bad thing.

 

Let us also not forget that the overwhelming MAJORITY of those now pressing books are doing so purely for profiteering, and absolutely NOTHING to do with preservation/conservation (or restoration if you wish to call it that) of the book.

 

This is part of the reason why some of us believe the pressing debate has such a smell to it.

[mstryinspc-migration]

spine roll expose the pages edges to the outside air allowing more comtaminents, humidity, soil, insects to enter the book interior.

[mstryinspc-migration]

Not apples and oranges that is why i brought up the signature collector we are both paper collectors. A book collector who takes a first edition book and has it proffesionally bound will actually increase its value without question. If this is done and the original DJ is included the book value can skyrocket. Again what is is retoration what is repair what is enhancement?

[mstryinspc-migration]

I am not saying disclosure is not required but the viseral reaction to "idea" of "work" being done by one portion of the community, is what I am responding too. If I took the a Batamn #10 perfect in every way except the whole book was curled from holding rolled and put it through a 20 ton printing press rollers if it didn't rip it it would come out exactly as new flat as a pancake. Would you pay me more for it as a rolled book or a flat book if told you straight out I did it?

 

Its your choice just be honest about your answer.

 

Remeber I said this book would be PERFECT in every way except for the roll. Would you not put it in a sleeve, hell have it slabbed and drop it in a box? What do you think would happen standing up in a few years in a Mylar, sqeezed naturally by the book next to it? Roll would begin to disappear quickly then you would be accused of having it pressed.