How many pressers do we have here?

[THE_BEYONDER]

When I say Chris and others like him don't know what the hell they're talking about, they know about the issue but know next to nothing about the limits or particulars of the process.

 

As Chris aptly noted, I was referring to him, not you.

 

Is it because you've actually had a book pressed that you rationalize such statements...or is it it more than that?

 

It's clear you've become part of the gang, so why don't you just stop pretending?

 

You call me out specifically to state that I have no idea about the process? That all I have is an uninformed opinion?

 

And then to lump others into your statement with "and others like him"?

 

I post here with a clear conscience.....how about you?

 

My conscience is in great shape. What exactly am I pretending? Because I don't fall in line with your idiotic "all pressed books are bad, tainted books" opinion, and because I have chosen to learn as much as I can about restoration in all its forms (not JUST this stupid pressing topic) and like to share the information I've learned with other people, then I must be a rampant presser/non-discloser?

 

Like I said before, whatever. Soon as you give me one good reason why I should give two pieces of rabbit caca in a tin can for your opinion, maybe I'll start caring what you think.

 

What makes you think I could care less? Your ego knows no bounds....

[nearmint]

So I think it's very possible that people buy big dollar comics without a clue about the pressing controversy or the crack-out-and-resubmit game.

 

I'm sure that's true. My point is that I can't be concerned about buyers who don't properly educate themselves in a hobby where it's really not all that difficult to do.

 

"A fool and his money..."

[esquirecomics]

One would think so, but I can tell you I personally know someone who spent over $100k for books and had no clue about the guide. The person simply had money to burn.

 

Hey, if he's got money to burn, and isn't smart about it, then burn, baby, burn.

 

I can't bring myself to be worried or concerned about a guy who isn't worried or concerned about himself. In my mind, he's not even part of the discussion.

 

But look at Parrino. Not sure he was too far off from this characterization and his "leaving" the comic community has freaked people out that the market is collapsing. Just one person.

 

Well, we're getting a bit off-topic here. Parrino's departure had nothing to do with a lack of info about resto and pressing.

 

Some people will always scream that the market is collapsing. Parrino paid top dollar for his books, then was surprised when he couldn't make a profit. I'd be worried if he HAD made a profit, as that would mean the major players took his bait, and we'd have an overinflated market. But they were smart buyers, and Parrino took his fishing pole and went home, leaving us with a healthier, more realistic market. It seems to me everything worked right in that scenario.

 

Maybe the next guy that wants to corner the market will think twice.

 

What I was trying to convey aswell with respect to Parrino is that he DID go to a "prominent" dealer - Bill Hughes - and perhaps others in order to understand comics and buy wisely. Clearly he did not buy wisely and no doubt it was the "expert" advice he received from his advisors that led him down that path. So, simply talking to an expert is not enough b/c you don't necessarily or always receive either the full story or the truth.

 

Anyway, of course, as I've said, I agree an educated buyer is a smart buyer. Which is why I advocate for disclosed pressing. Let the buyer be educated and the market can decide.

[esquirecomics]

heres a wacky idea - - lets raise some money here and buy ads to spread the word to come join us here. And rent a barn... and put on a really neat show!

 

no seriously, I just threw that stuff in in case my suggestion reads too darn naive. It would be better if CGC bought the ads, but I think our muckraking consumer protectionist goals are in alignment with theirs 100%

 

I would contribute to such an ad.

[esquirecomics]

Look at what this thread is called: "FF3". Why would any newbie wanting to look for threads about restoration even open it up? A lot of the other threads that have discussed restoration and pressing have been under similarly innocuous titles, including all of Ben's notorious "Ewert does it again" threads.

 

Tim, of course I agree with your posts, but go get some sleep man, this is isn't the FF3 thread.

[tth2]

So I think it's very possible that people buy big dollar comics without a clue about the pressing controversy or the crack-out-and-resubmit game.

 

I'm sure that's true. My point is that I can't be concerned about buyers who don't properly educate themselves in a hobby where it's really not all that difficult to do.

 

"A fool and his money..."

Of course, but remember the point of this conversation wasn`t "smart purchasing", but whether people out there are splashing money around without knowing about the pressing issue or other controversies of the day. I am convinced that there are such people, and they are spending their money in blissful ignorance.

[nearmint]

Look at what this thread is called: "FF3". Why would any newbie wanting to look for threads about restoration even open it up? A lot of the other threads that have discussed restoration and pressing have been under similarly innocuous titles, including all of Ben's notorious "Ewert does it again" threads.

 

Tim, of course I agree with your posts, but go get some sleep man, this is isn't the FF3 thread.

 

Tim must be sleepy to ask that question. One need only search for resto in "title and body" rather than simply "title" to find threads like "FF3" and "Ewert does it again."

[tth2]

Look at what this thread is called: "FF3". Why would any newbie wanting to look for threads about restoration even open it up? A lot of the other threads that have discussed restoration and pressing have been under similarly innocuous titles, including all of Ben's notorious "Ewert does it again" threads.

 

Tim, of course I agree with your posts, but go get some sleep man, this is isn't the FF3 thread.

So many threads about pressing and restoration, so-o-o confused!

[FFB]

The issue here is not one of CGC's expertise -- the issue is that CGC follows the "dealer" industry standard that "pressing isn't restoration so it doesn't need to be disclosed." Think about it -- how many dealers can you name who disclose pressing, not only to their customers, but also to each other in dealer-to-dealer transactions? I can think of Marnin and no one else, and he does it with so much venom and hatred that it makes me question his motives (not to mention his sanity). If virtually NONE of the dealers disclose pressing, how can it be said that it is the industry standard for pressing to be disclosed? And if it isn't the industry standard, then do we want CGC to try to change the industry standard and impose the opinions of some collectors (opinions not shared by CGC or any of the major dealers except Marnin) on the rest of the market? I don't. Today it'll be pressing, but tomorrow it'll be something else that is maybe not so palatable. I think the healthiest thing for the hobby is for the lone certification company in the hobby to follow the industry standards, not try to force new ones on the hobby.

I think this is a cop-out. If you read the trade rags and talked to dealers in the 80s and early 90s, you might very well have come to the conclusion that the "dealer" industry standard was that restoration was okay, and didn't need to be disclosed. Let's think back to who some of the big players were back then: Mark Wilson, John Snyder, Dan Greenhalgh, Calvin Slobodian, Robert Crestohl, Gerry Ross--all of them restored books or commissioned it, and certainly did not disclose. If I recall, record prices were paid back then by the big boys such as Geppi, Snyder, maybe Anderson, maybe Borock, for more than a few GA books that were known and disclosed to be restored. It apparently was not considered to be a significant flaw, certainly not affecting valuation.

 

So what if CGC had started during this period, and Steve Borock was squarely in the restoration is okay camp? Would that mean it would be okay for CGC not to detect it and disclose it because it was market practice not to? I could actually care less about CGC being deemed to pass judgment on the acceptibility of NDA pressing by putting it in a PLOD. I just want disclosure. If CGC doesn't want to stigmatize NDA pressing by putting it in a PLOD because the inner elite have never thought it was bad enough to affect valuation, then disclose it in a blue label, just like "tiny" drop of glue or "dot" of color touch that is disclosed on some GA blue labels. I just want the disclosure so I can have all the facts in hand before deciding to buy a book.

 

What is "NDA pressing"?

 

As far as disclosure of restoration back in the 1980s and 1990s, your recollection is different from mine. I seem to recall many of the more honest dealers disclosing restoration when it was known. Only the scumbags hid it when they knew about it. As far as I know, there has never been a time except maybe when comic restoration was in its infancy that honest dealers didn't have a policy of "disclose it when you know about it." Using Crestohl and Ross as examples doesn't support your point that honest dealers didn't disclose restoration.

[tth2]

What is "NDA pressing"?

Non-DisAssembly pressing

 

Using Crestohl and Ross as examples doesn't support your point that honest dealers didn't disclose restoration.

Crestohl and Ross weren`t the only 2 names I listed.

[FFB]

What is "NDA pressing"?

Non-DisAssembly pressing

 

Using Crestohl and Ross as examples doesn't support your point that honest dealers didn't disclose restoration.

Crestohl and Ross weren`t the only 2 names I listed.

 

I never had any dealings with those guys though.

[jmg3637]

I must admit that I have become much more educated on the behind the scenes world of comics since the advent of CGC and even more so since becoming a member of this board.

 

I still plan on summitting a small batch of books so i can see for my own eyes the effects of pressing. these books are for my own personal collection, but I would plan to disclose if and when they are ever sold again.

 

What makes a good candidate for pressing? I was thinking of this one, but I was not sure if squarebound books could be pressed.

 

[FFB]

I must admit that I have become much more educated on the behind the scenes world of comics since the advent of CGC and even more so since becoming a member of this board.

 

I still plan on summitting a small batch of books so i can see for my own eyes the effects of pressing. these books are for my own personal collection, but I would plan to disclose if and when they are ever sold again.

 

What makes a good candidate for pressing? I was thinking of this one, but I was not sure if squarebound books could be pressed.

 

I don't think a press job would help that book at all because you've got fractures in the ink layer along those creases. All a press job will do is flatten out those creases a bit, while still leaving clear evidence of their former presence behind.

 

Also, with the other ink flaking along the spine and wear around the edges, a press job is not going to net you any increase in the grade.

[jmg3637]

that makes sense. That book has so many small defects, I hope that it would grade out at a VG. It is a very sound book, but those old time square bounds with the heavy cardboard covers are hard to keep nice.

 

So what is a good candidate for pressing?

 

What kind of condition should it be in?

 

What kind of defects will it help?

[Aman619]

that makes sense. That book has so many small defects, I hope that it would grade out at a VG. It is a very sound book, but those old time square bounds with the heavy cardboard covers are hard to keep nice.

 

So what is a good candidate for pressing?

 

What kind of condition should it be in?

 

What kind of defects will it help?

 

I dont have any of these answers, but, I think I know who you can ask.......

[FFB]

that makes sense. That book has so many small defects, I hope that it would grade out at a VG. It is a very sound book, but those old time square bounds with the heavy cardboard covers are hard to keep nice.

 

So what is a good candidate for pressing?

 

What kind of condition should it be in?

 

What kind of defects will it help?

 

Non-color-breaking bends are the things that are most likely to be removed. Actual creases that break color cannot be removed by pressing.

[FFB]

that makes sense. That book has so many small defects, I hope that it would grade out at a VG. It is a very sound book, but those old time square bounds with the heavy cardboard covers are hard to keep nice.

 

So what is a good candidate for pressing?

 

What kind of condition should it be in?

 

What kind of defects will it help?

 

I dont have any of these answers, but, I think I know who you can ask.......

 

You don't know what defects are removed by NDP pressing? Cool. One more bit of evidence to support my theory that the ones most against pressing are the ones who know the least about it.

[tth2]

I dont have any of these answers, but, I think I know who you can ask.......

 

You don't know what defects are removed by NDP pressing? Cool. One more bit of evidence to support my theory that the ones most against pressing are the ones who know the least about it.

Scott, first off, I think Aman was just trying to be funny.

 

Second, why the deliberately inflammatory comment? Does someone have to have studied pressing comprehensively before they're allowed to opine that they don't like to see tampering with a book's natural condition? Do I have to have studied the effects of steroids or EPO on the human body in detail before I decide that I would prefer athletic performances to be unaided by artificial enhancements? The more some of us rail against pressing, the more extreme it seems you've become in defending the practice, almost to the point that soon, not only will you say it's not a bad thing, but that it's actually a fine and noble thing to do to a book.

[sfilosa]

that makes sense. That book has so many small defects, I hope that it would grade out at a VG. It is a very sound book, but those old time square bounds with the heavy cardboard covers are hard to keep nice.

 

So what is a good candidate for pressing?

 

What kind of condition should it be in?

 

What kind of defects will it help?

 

Here's a simple way.

 

When you see a CGC book that looks much nicer than it's assigned grade (i.e. called a CGC 8.0 but looks almost perfect), and the book doesn't have interior defects or poor page quality (tanning), then it's probably a very good candidate for pressing. Most likely, there are several non-color breaking creases (maybe even several inches) that brought the grade down, BUT NOT THE EYE APPEAL.

 

If the books raw, look at it straight on, not at an angle. If it looks really, really nice, but then doesn't look as good at various angles, once again you probably have a nice pressing candidate.

[Red Hook]

that makes sense. That book has so many small defects, I hope that it would grade out at a VG. It is a very sound book, but those old time square bounds with the heavy cardboard covers are hard to keep nice.

 

So what is a good candidate for pressing?

 

What kind of condition should it be in?

 

What kind of defects will it help?

 

I dont have any of these answers, but, I think I know who you can ask.......

 

You don't know what defects are removed by NDP pressing? Cool. One more bit of evidence to support my theory that the ones most against pressing are the ones who know the least about it.

 

You're 100% wrong on that.