Hurricane Katrina

[shadroch]

The people and government of NO have known for years that the levee protecting the city was designed to protect the city from a Catagory 3 Storm.I really don't know if that was for economic reasons or if somehow they just never believed a bigger storm would ever hit.Either way,the people who allowed this situation to develop and continue should be made to answer.

Lets not forget-the situation in NO is much different from the rest of the Gulf,in that the city survived the storm intact and it was only the failing of man-made levees that were not designed to handle the scenerio that occured that caused the death of an entire city.

Anyone who has ever visited Holland or the other North Sea countries can attest to the multi-layered dykes,designed so that if one fails,others pickup the slack. NO had one.

I'd place the blame for that squarely on The Army Corps of Engineers,whose mission it is to ensure such tragedy never occurs.Europe learned its lesson in the mid-1950s when thousands were killed in a freak storm. Evidently we didn't.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Aman, I totally agree with your critique of our present administration....once the bleeding stops, I can't see how there won't be some very serious congressional hearings about the way this was handled. It's just so amazingly....well, I can't find the word that describes it...

 

I really can't see how you guys can make this a political issue. Its the worst natural disaster in our history for crying out loud, all the preparedness in the world only goes so far.

[herc2000]

I can understand why some people wouldn't leave their homes and belongnings, if that's all you have got. You can say they would still be alive true, but some people would rather take the risk, and hope not to lose everything. If you had a fire in your house, you would think to not leaving your comics to burn, I know I would try to get mine out (most prob die in the process). Some peoples homes and goods are their lives!

[shrunkenhead]

I really can't see how you guys can make this a political issue. Its the worst natural disaster in our history for crying out loud, all the preparedness in the world only goes so far.

 

Sure....but there is a huge difference between a natural disaster like an earthquake or a tornado---in which there is NO time to get people out of the line of fire---and a hurricane, which people know is coming several days in advance. I mean, hey, why not send some military planes down to transport poor people in advance, right? Why wasn't the army called in immediately to put down the civil unrest in New Orleans? Are we sure it's got nothing to do with the fact that we've squandered our resources in Iraq?

 

I understand that now is not the time for politics, but I'd like to think that the protection of human life is apolitical...

[krazykat-migration]

I really can't see how you guys can make this a political issue. Its the worst natural disaster in our history for crying out loud, all the preparedness in the world only goes so far.

 

Sure....but there is a huge difference between a natural disaster like an earthquake or a tornado---in which there is NO time to get people out of the line of fire---and a hurricane, which people know is coming several days in advance. I mean, hey, why not send some military planes down to transport poor people in advance, right? Why wasn't the army called in immediately to put down the civil unrest in New Orleans? Are we sure it's got nothing to do with the fact that we've squandered our resources in Iraq?

 

I understand that now is not the time for politics, but I'd like to think that the protection of human life is apolitical...

 

NOW IM CERTIAN YOURE AN insufficiently_thoughtful_person !!!

 

Why dont you just support our country instead of undermining it !!!

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I really can't see how you guys can make this a political issue. Its the worst natural disaster in our history for crying out loud, all the preparedness in the world only goes so far.

 

Sure....but there is a huge difference between a natural disaster like an earthquake or a tornado---in which there is NO time to get people out of the line of fire---and a hurricane, which people know is coming several days in advance. I mean, hey, why not send some military planes down to transport poor people in advance, right? Why wasn't the army called in immediately to put down the civil unrest in New Orleans? Are we sure it's got nothing to do with the fact that we've squandered our resources in Iraq?

 

I understand that now is not the time for politics, but I'd like to think that the protection of human life is apolitical...

 

No one, and I mean NO ONE, could have foretold the level of destruction from this hurricane. Everything about it, especially the storm surge, is unparalled. And don't rewrite history please, 48 hours before it hit, the weather services still had a cone stretching from eastern texas to the Florida panhandle as a possible landing point. Should we have tried to fly out the six million people that live along the entire coastline? That's not how things work.

 

People were warned and urged to get out, especially from New Orleans. What's happened the last few days is nothing less than devestating, and impossible to measure in terms of loss, but even REMOTELY making it a political issue boggles my mind.

 

And how you can defer responsibility for the actions of those looting in New Orleans to anyone else is really beyond me.

[shrunkenhead]

Jive, we can agree to disagree. I'm on no pulpit and I'm not running for office. Just venting my frustrations the whole affair. My argument has less to do with who's in office than it does the proper allocation of money and labor. Point taken about the cone (point not taken about the looting, though). There have been mistakes made, but if you really believe that asking such questions only politicizes a catastrophe, I won't push.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Jive, we can agree to disagree. I'm on no pulpit and I'm not running for office. Just venting my frustrations the whole affair. My argument has less to do with who's in office than it does the proper allocation of money and labor. Point taken about the cone (point not taken about the looting, though). There have been mistakes made, but if you really believe that asking such questions only politicizes a catastrophe, I won't push.

 

Shrunk, I'm sure we're both frustrated and downtrodden about what's happening in front of us. Of course, things could have been handled better....but I still don't think even the most ideal plan could have averted what's happened. Its just not a time to make political hay, IMHO, especially since they are reporting that people are firing on rescue helicopters as they attempt to help those stranded, and that a National Guardsman was apparently shot in NO. Personally, I think I'm just going to STFU and call the Red Cross and make a donation. Care to join me?

[shrunkenhead]

On it.

[tilleycs]

I just wanted to urge everybody here to donate something to your local Red Cross or other reputable charity helping with hurricane relief. Give blood, clothing, food or money, something you can spare for those in need.

 

I would also encourage everyone to give to reputable charities...just be careful Do some research before giving (charitynavigator.com is a site I use). As we all know, after major tragedies like this, new "charities" pop up all over the place. Be careful to whom you give your money.

 

I also feel compeled to remind everyone that the Red Cross has gotten in trouble in the past for using tragedies like this to bring in millions and millions of dollars, but not using all the money that was donated in response to said tragedy. They solicit donations to help with the tragedy, then keep some of the money for future emergencies...without being honest that this was their plan all along. (I hope this does not come across as a conspiracy theory; it's been documented over the years.)

 

They did this with the millions (billions?) of dollars that we all sent in response to 9/11 (which caused a big stink and ended with one high-level person resigning - can't remember who), and they'd done it before that with other tragedies. I made the personal decision after the 9/11 incident to never donate to the Red Cross again, because I do not feel like I can trust them. I will instead give to other organizations (Salvation Army, etc.) who are also providing aid.

 

I am not saying that people should not give to charity; I believe in giving my time and money to charity, and have done so for years. I'm saying be informed, be aware, and be careful. The people affected by this storm definitely need the help. I want to give my money to an organization that will do the most good with the greatest percentage of my money.

[drice6900]

Shrunk, I'm sure we're both frustrated and downtrodden about what's happening in front of us. Of course, things could have been handled better....but I still don't think even the most ideal plan could have averted what's happened. Its just not a time to make political hay, IMHO, especially since they are reporting that people are firing on rescue helicopters as they attempt to help those stranded, and that a National Guardsman was apparently shot in NO. Personally, I think I'm just going to STFU and call the Red Cross and make a donation. Care to join me?

 

And if the Government responded quicker with available troops pouring in to NO as we speak to bring order and calm to the evacuations, would people still be shooting at helicopters and guardsmen?

 

Sorry, but I don't care who is in the White House, this lack of preparedness and slow response really stinks.

[awe4one]

OK I've seen enough...

 

Some of you may not like this idea but I say it's time for FEMA to move over and let the US military take over the situation until order can be restored. The military is more adept at handling devastating situations, organizing refugee operations (and that's what this is), and restoring order to areas. Nothing can really be accomplished until the lawless are stopped and relief agencies can do their jobs without the worry of being killed.

 

Jim

[skybolt]

I was completely shocked when I heard that not hundreds, but thousands of people may have lost their lives in New Orleans. I realize that this is the worst natural disaster we've ever had here in the U.S., but after what happened in Southeast Asia last year, it's not surprising that something like this could happen here.

 

If the levees were only designed for a category 3 Storm, then the public should've been notified vehemently to get out. Since I'm a drainage Engineer, it just shocks me how much time and money states spend to make sure that you don't increase stormwater runoff by small fractions on roadway projects, but leave something like major like a dam or levee unfunded. I can see a tragedy occuring at the spur of the moment like the 1,000 people getting trampled on the bridge in Iraq, but having a 2 day forewarning as Tom stated is too much too fathom.

[Norrin_Radd]

OK I've seen enough...

 

Some of you may not like this idea but I say it's time for FEMA to move over and let the US military take over the situation until order can be restored. The military is more adept at handling devastating situations, organizing refugee operations (and that's what this is), and restoring order to areas. Nothing can really be accomplished until the lawless are stopped and relief agencies can do their jobs without the worry of being killed.

 

Jim

 

After the 1906 earthquake, the National Guard was given the order to shoot any looters. Why not do the same thing now?

 

Armed looter = gets shot. Period.

[skybolt]

OK I've seen enough...

 

Some of you may not like this idea but I say it's time for FEMA to move over and let the US military take over the situation until order can be restored. The military is more adept at handling devastating situations, organizing refugee operations (and that's what this is), and restoring order to areas. Nothing can really be accomplished until the lawless are stopped and relief agencies can do their jobs without the worry of being killed.

 

Jim

 

After the 1906 earthquake, the National Guard was given the order to shoot any looters. Why not do the same thing now?

 

Armed looter = gets shot. Period.

 

I can definitely understand people stealing food or a few clothing items to feed or cloth their starving families in a situation like this. However, anything beyond that is really shameful.

[shrunkenhead]

I just read an op/ed out of Louisiana that was talking about cops and firemen rushing into Wallmart to join the looters instead of doing their job. Cops were supposedly wheeling out flatscreen tvs and stuff...if that's true...

[shadroch]

THe NO police dept. has been recognized as the most corrupt in the US amongst major cities for years.That said,I'll take stories of cops and firemen looting with a grain of salt.

 

I really don't understand why the federal government hasn't responded quicker.Why haven't Naval Hospital ships crossed over from Florida? Why is the 101st still sitting in fort Campell. What we are seeing is in NO is a complete and utter failure of civil authority.

Martial Law,yesterday,seems the only solution.

[Ares]

THe NO police dept. has been recognized as the most corrupt in the US amongst major cities for years.That said,I'll take stories of cops and firemen looting with a grain of salt.

 

I really don't understand why the federal government hasn't responded quicker.Why haven't Naval Hospital ships crossed over from Florida? Why is the 101st still sitting in fort Campell. What we are seeing is in NO is a complete and utter failure of civil authority.

Marial Law,yesterday,seems the only solution.

Plus France and Canada have offered all sorts of help but he US government is saying thanks but we will let you know soon

[chrisco37]

I can definitely understand people stealing food or a few clothing items to feed or cloth their starving families in a situation like this. However, anything beyond that is really shameful

 

It's absolutely pathetic. Last night I was watching the news and the newsperson was talking about interviewing some looters. They said the people were saying they were looting for necessities: food, diapers, water, etc.... Then they showed footage. Not one looter had any of those items. But, I did see one lady with about 6 boxes of Nike's, one guy with electrical appliances, etc....Unreal.

 

I also saw the footage of the police officers and firefighters joining in the looting.

 

A sad, sad commentary on the people in this country.

 

My thoughts and prayers go out to those families whose lives were destroyed by this disaster.

[awe4one]

That said,I'll take stories of cops and firemen looting with a grain of salt.

 

NBC has video footage of police caught in the act during looting of a Walmart...

 

Jim