Hurricane Katrina

[shiverbones]

I am trying not to get wrappe dup in this since I am so emotionally tied to it, but smallish is a ridiculously incorrect assessment. New Orleans is far more important to this country then Philadelphia, its the nations largest & most important sea port. Everyone thinks of it as a party city, but it really holds commerce together in this country.

[Forbush-Man]

Houston Astrodome is no longer accepting evacuees.

[*paull*]

"New Orleans is far more important to this country then Philadelphia, its the nations largest & most important sea port."

 

During a time like this, I try to ignore this type of thing, but that is quite simply one of the dumbest statements ever.

 

First of all... ever hear of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey?

 

Second, Philadelphia not as important as New Orleans? Do the Constitution and Declaration of Independence mean anything to you?

[shiverbones]

well paull, while I respect your taste in comics your knowledge of incoming and outgoing commerce is incorrect. So before you start calling things dumb, you should make sure that you actually know what you are talking about. Its a well known fact that not only is New Orleans the most important sea port in the country (the mississippi is the single largest waterway and transport for anything coming into this country, and the mouth of the mississippi leads straight into new orleans), but I believe it is #4 in the entire world. New York is important for other reasons, but facts are facts. do a google search. Secondly, the constitution and declaration have already been written, and while the history is very important, the here and now is what I am talking about. It would appear perhaps your reply may be the dumbest post you have ever read.

[*paull*]

Well, guess what... I know what I'm talking about. You are incorrect.

 

Here are the stats for fiscal year 2004:

 

Port Authority of New Orleans

323,060 TEUs total cargo

 

Port Authority of New York and New Jersey

4,478,480 TEUs total cargo

 

 

 

Sources: Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and Port Authority of New Orleans

http://www.portno.com/PDF/cargo%20stats%20cy04.pdf

http://www.panynj.gov/AboutthePortAuthority/PressCenter/PressReleases/PressRelease/index.php?id=657

[shadroch]

The port of NY is much less important and utilized these days as the water is too shallow for many of super sized container ships.Newark,across the bay does much more container business. NY harbor really needs to be dredged but there are so many pollutants in the soil that no one can agree what damages might occur.

I'm not going to get into a [embarrassing lack of self control] contest over if Philly or NO is the more important city. Does it really matter?

 

As far as the levees go,each of the three broke in one small area. Water bursting thru the hole caused the breach to widen,and deepen.Remember the story of the little Dutch boy and saving holland by sticking his finger in the dyke? Same thing here. Water finds the weakest point and bores away at it.

In the mid-80s,after a Noreaster hit Long Island,one stretch of land between the bay and the ocean was covered by water. In days,the gap grew to almost 100 yards.These days,if you stand on one side,you can hardly see the other.Few things have the destructive power of flowing water.As water pours thru any channel,it rapidly erodes the sides of the channel.The Grand Canyon is simply the result of water erosion over time.

[shadroch]

One thing I have not heard or read about-When the Government ordered the mandatory evacuations,did they provide any methods?

NO has an Amtrak line running thru it,as well as numerous freight lines. Did te city or state charter any trains or hire fleets of school buses? As far as walkng out as an option,it really wasn't one. A healthy adult might be able to walk 50/60 miles in the two days that they had. Much less if you have kids or elderly with you. Now burden yourself down with water,food and a few possesions. Then factor in the heat and humidity,not to mention that to the north lie the bayous.Where would you be when the storm of the century hits? Perhaps halfway to Baton Rouge,caught out in the open in 125 mile winds? Suddenly,staying put and hoping for the best sounds better to me.

[Bronze_Age_Fan]

"New Orleans is far more important to this country then Philadelphia, its the nations largest & most important sea port."

 

During a time like this, I try to ignore this type of thing, but that is quite simply one of the dumbest statements ever.

 

First of all... ever hear of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey?

 

Second, Philadelphia not as important as New Orleans? Do the Constitution and Declaration of Independence mean anything to you?

 

New Orleans is the conduit for oil thats drilled out in the Gulf of Mexico, therefore it is an important hub in the U.S economy.

[skybolt]

One thing I have not heard or read about-When the Government ordered the mandatory evacuations,did they provide any methods?

NO has an Amtrak line running thru it,as well as numerous freight lines. Did te city or state charter any trains or hire fleets of school buses? As far as walkng out as an option,it really wasn't one. A healthy adult might be able to walk 50/60 miles in the two days that they had. Much less if you have kids or elderly with you. Now burden yourself down with water,food and a few possesions. Then factor in the heat and humidity,not to mention that to the north lie the bayous.Where would you be when the storm of the century hits? Perhaps halfway to Baton Rouge,caught out in the open in 125 mile winds? Suddenly,staying put and hoping for the best sounds better to me.

 

I agree. Telling people to go to their grandmas house in Colorado for the weekend is not what I exactly call an evacuation method. As you mentioned, charter buses and evacuation locations with food and shelter should have been provided. I understand that some people would always take chances with their lives and stay, but the government should always have plans and contingencies, and be prepared for a disaster like this. I mean for goodness sake, after the 9/11 tragedy you'd think evacuation methods would've been perfected by now. If you don't act quickly in a critical situation, then it opens the door to people's suffering and lawlessness.

[The Black Hand ®]

I saw a report about a fancy hotel evacuating it's people in SUV's, refusing to remove any luggage to make room for people who weren't guest. This included women and children who were wandering the area begging for help. I'm afraid it's like the justice system. One for the rich, one for the poor. The poor weren't factored in to the equation. That's just the way it is and the way it's always been. If the area affected would have been predominately affluent neighborhoods, it would have been a bit different. There's going to be a lot of things covered up. I imagine Fox news will focus on the looting and the violence but not on all the funds diverted away from the repairs of the levees or help in evacuating the poor and elderly. It really has been a shamefull episode. If Bush jumps up on a platform with a bullhorn in a sanitised area at this point, I think I'll puke.Now, Obviously Bush isn't responsible for the hurricane, but like I said earlier, they did divert funds and Fema has been a joke in terms of response time as well as the national guard. A lot of people, dems and pubs, should lose their jobs over this one. Of course a lot of people should have lost their jobs over the whole Iraq war fiasco, but they didn't.I am just disgusted. I would like to think that I would do better in a situation like that, that I would toss my luggage out of my car and let a couple of the women and children in... I would hope I would... But I'm sitting in my nice house in front of my nice computer and this is all so easy to say.

[skybolt]

Working in the Engineering field for the past 11 years, it's amazing how you wind up paying for things if you try and cut corners and reduce the budget for a project. If the system fails then you wind up paying 10 times as much to fix it. There's a reason why certain projects have been funded over the years with a factor of safety included. You can't just come in as an administration and say "hey, why do we need this sort of money to protect the environment, wetlands, or whatever, if there's a small chance of something going wrong"? Let's divert the funds somewhere where it's needed.

 

For instance, we always design storm sewer systems for a regular roadway at the 10-year storm event, while highways and underpasses are designed for the 50-year storm event. Pump stations are always designed for the 100-year storm event. This means that based on historical data, the system should handle a major storm that occurs once every 10, 50 or 100 years. This is a factor of safety you need in place to make sure that even during a major storm, you're system can still work. Guidelines have also been set up to provide of-site or in-line detention storage for new developments, or reinstating wetlands when impacted. Same thing applies to bridge structures and why they're usually designed with a 4 to1 factor of safety.

 

I'm sure someone in charge of budgets may look at these numbers and designs and say why are we spending all this money to protect us from something that may or may not occur once every 50 years, so of course they wind up slashing the budget and going on the cheap.

[Ares]

I wonder if the fact that New Orleans is 70% Black and Hispanic is any factor in the slow responce

[october]

I wonder if the fact that New Orleans is 70% Black and Hispanic is any factor in the slwo responce

 

Not much doubt about that. If those were 17 year old blonde girls and 55 year old white CEOs stranded down there, I think things would have been just a little quicker.

[Aman619]

50 years is a long time, until you're in year 49.. And in this case, theres no clock to look at to see where you are. I always get a chuckle thinking of the sweet 99 year lease deals for the Panama Canal and Hong Kong that were snickered at back home as a windfall victory, and then "like clockwork" 98 years later their descendants are fretting having to relinquish control!

[precodekeith]

I wonder if the fact that New Orleans is 70% Black and Hispanic is any factor in the slwo responce

 

Not much doubt about that. If those were 17 year old blonde girls and 55 year old white CEOs stranded down there, I think things would have been just a little quicker.

 

I have a lot of doubt about that! I don't think race played any part in response time in this situation. There are plenty of caucasian people (and Asians, too) in Alabama & Miss. who are still awaiting more aid, too! They don't have the added misfortune of being trapped in NO, so they aren't getting the extra media coverage.

[The Black Hand ®]

Check out this link to a public service announcement from MR.Bill that aired earlier this year.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-crawford/oh-no-mr-bill-knew-so-_b_6651.html

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Check out this link to a public service announcement from MR.Bill.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-crawford/oh-no-mr-bill-knew-so-_b_6651.html

 

Under normal circumstances, I would have found that very funny. Now, its just tragic.

[october]

I wonder if the fact that New Orleans is 70% Black and Hispanic is any factor in the slwo responce

 

Not much doubt about that. If those were 17 year old blonde girls and 55 year old white CEOs stranded down there, I think things would have been just a little quicker.

 

I have a lot of doubt about that! I don't think race played any part in response time in this situation. There are plenty of caucasian people (and Asians, too) in Alabama & Miss. who are still awaiting more aid, too! They don't have the added misfortune of being trapped in NO, so they aren't getting the extra media coverage.

 

Not race so much as economic class, which happens to have racial implications.

[Scrooge]

I wonder if the fact that New Orleans is 70% Black and Hispanic is any factor in the slwo responce

 

Not much doubt about that. If those were 17 year old blonde girls and 55 year old white CEOs stranded down there, I think things would have been just a little quicker.

 

I have a lot of doubt about that! I don't think race played any part in response time in this situation. There are plenty of caucasian people (and Asians, too) in Alabama & Miss. who are still awaiting more aid, too! They don't have the added misfortune of being trapped in NO, so they aren't getting the extra media coverage.

 

Not race so much as economic class, which happens to have racial implications.

 

Andy, I prefer this new version better. Recall that your words originally were:

 

"Not much doubt about that. If those were 17 year old blonde girls and 55 year old white CEOs stranded down there, I think things would have been just a little quicker. "

 

which indicated only racial bias and no socio-economic bias and that's what was reacted to.

[october]

I wonder if the fact that New Orleans is 70% Black and Hispanic is any factor in the slwo responce

 

Not much doubt about that. If those were 17 year old blonde girls and 55 year old white CEOs stranded down there, I think things would have been just a little quicker.

 

I have a lot of doubt about that! I don't think race played any part in response time in this situation. There are plenty of caucasian people (and Asians, too) in Alabama & Miss. who are still awaiting more aid, too! They don't have the added misfortune of being trapped in NO, so they aren't getting the extra media coverage.

 

Not race so much as economic class, which happens to have racial implications.

 

Andy, I prefer this new version better. Recall that your words originally were:

 

"Not much doubt about that. If those were 17 year old blonde girls and 55 year old white CEOs stranded down there, I think things would have been just a little quicker. "

 

which indicated only racial bias and no socio-economic bias and that's what was reacted to.

 

The two do go hand-in-hand though. It can be tough to see where one stops and the other begins. Personally, I prefer to think of it as economic bias, which, although terrible, does seem less eggregious.