Combined investment will cause Golden Age (Collectors) to explode 3 3

[MrBedrock]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:10 PM, Mmehdy said:

With the under market on AF #15 8.0 exploding up like 300K in price, when and if the AF 15 cracks the 3.0 or 4.0 million, look for fractional ownership to become a reality on Mega Key, high grade books, its comiing

No doubt it is already happening. But it won't be True Collectors manning up to buy pieces.

[MrBedrock]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:10 PM, valiantman said:

With B), you've described every transaction that anyone has ever made in the history of the world.  

B) does nothing for a collector who would like to enhance their collection but can't afford 100% of the item they need.

 

A) provides an alternative to a world where only B) can occur.

Again, you are operating under the fallacy that "collectors" are only after that one expensive book that they cannot afford to complete their collection. If that is the be-all, end-all of your argument, then run with it. But in the real world you are marketing to the wrong crowd because actual collectors do not operate that way. Take the temperature of the room here. Everyone agrees that fractional investing is a certainty. But the only person I have seen saying they are looking forward to actually spending money on a piece of an expensive comic is you. I respect your enthusiasm, but I think your dream that this will somehow be appealing on these boards to these collectors is simply misguided.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:02 PM, MrBedrock said:

I have Captain America 2 -10, but had to sell my #1 a few years back. It was an 8.0 and those have gone up quite a bit.

You are a good man, @MrBedrock.  For those who don't know, when a natural disaster hit Houston and wrecked the Bedrock stores, Rich sold the book so he could continue payroll to his faithful employees.

[valiantman]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:17 PM, MrBedrock said:

Take the temperature of the room here. Everyone agrees that fractional investing is a certainty. But the only person I have seen saying they are looking forward to actually spending money on a piece of an expensive comic is you. I respect your enthusiasm, but I think your dream that this will somehow be appealing on these boards to these collectors is simply misguided.

Your thermometer works better than mine because I've seen posts from those who do not want to see fractional investing exist, and sound as if they want to try to ensure it never happens because it doesn't work for them.

If everyone agrees that fractional investing is a certainty, then my work is done.  No one has to do anything they don't want to do, but the desires to stop the option for others were alarming.

Edited August 30, 2021 by valiantman

[Turnando]

On 8/30/2021 at 5:18 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

For those who don't know, when a natural disaster hit Houston and wrecked the Bedrock stores, Rich sold the book so he could continue payroll to his faithful employees.

Right on!!!

[MrBedrock]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:31 PM, valiantman said:

If everyone agrees that fractional investing is a certainty, then my work is done.

Thank you, Don Quixote!

[valiantman]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:36 PM, MrBedrock said:

On 8/30/2021 at 4:31 PM, valiantman said:

If everyone agrees that fractional investing is a certainty, then my work is done.

Thank you, Don Quixote!

And thank you for speaking on behalf of everyone.  Anyone who doesn't agree that fractional investing is a certainty will look like a fool now, thus sayeth @MrBedrock

[MrBedrock]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:37 PM, valiantman said:

And thank you for speaking on behalf of everyone.  Anyone who doesn't agree that fractional investing is a certainty will look like a fool now, thus sayeth @MrBedrock

Isn't it already happening?

[valiantman]

On 8/30/2021 at 4:38 PM, MrBedrock said:

Isn't it already happening?

So far, there are no copies of Action Comics #1 or Detective Comics #27 in a publicly-visible fractional investing market.  So, as far as the big two books go, not yet.

As far as the concept of 24/7 electronic exchange for those fractional investments, also not yet.

[waaaghboss]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:37 PM, valiantman said:

And thank you for speaking on behalf of everyone.  Anyone who doesn't agree that fractional investing is a certainty will look like a fool now, thus sayeth @MrBedrock

People can do whatever they wish with their money, but we can also speak our minds regarding new investment vehicles.  The idea of fractional investing as it pertains to comic books, to me, is silly.  Hopefully you guys do well and the whole thing works out, but this type of thing already imploded with some attempts at mtg cards.  Mythicmarkets had to "halt trading", which is never a good sign.  The whole thing seems to me as a get rich quick scheme, where someone can buy a comic for say 20k, sell 40k worth of ",shares", and then get to display a fine piece they already doubled their money on.  Personally, for investments, I'll stick to traditional stocks with all the benefits and protections they enjoy.   For collectibles, I'd much rather buy a 1k book I can enjoy and maybe sell someday for a profit rather than own a tiny piece of an action 1 and hope the owner doesn't go belly up and run off with the comic. 

[SuperBird]

On 8/30/2021 at 5:41 PM, valiantman said:

So far, there are no copies of Action Comics #1 or Detective Comics #27 in a publicly-visible fractional investing market.  So, as far as the big two books go, not yet.

As far as the concept of 24/7 electronic exchange for those fractional investments, also not yet.

I would probably "collect" shares of AC1-14 and Superman 1, fwiw.

[valiantman]

A lot of you comment as if there's only one investment option available.  "I'd rather buy stocks" or "I'd rather buy 100% of a comic I can hold" or "You'd be better off with an ETF", etc.

I have all of those already.  There are no limits to the options the world can allow, and anyone sticking with just one of type of investment is a tale of woe just waiting to happen.

Edited August 30, 2021 by valiantman

[MyNameIsLegion]

Ok I have questions, I've read a lot fo this thread, and the more I think about it, the sillier it all seems.

If I own a share of Action 1, who decides if the actual copy of the book can be sold. Whoever has a controlling interest? say 51%. What if a group representing 51% decide they want to sell? Am I forced to sell?  How does the Action 1 go up in value?  Only though the exchange of shares in this particular copy, or all copies of action 1? what is the market for action 1, or all 7.0 action 1s, or only  a fractionally owned 7.0 Action 1? If a privately held, wholly owned copy of Action 1goes to auction, can a group of investors buy it via shares? Who keep sthe physical artifact? Is it insured? What if I die, and I have multiple heirs, does that mean they each own a fraction of a fraction? Am I the first to make a "get a piece of the Action" joke? This whole idea sounds pretty farfetched for it to ever take off in s serious way beyond individually drawn up private equity agreements in advance of a sale or auction.

[valiantman]

On 8/30/2021 at 5:09 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

Ok I have questions, I've read a lot fo this thread, and the more I think about it, the sillier it all seems.

If I own a share of Action 1, who decides if the actual copy of the book can be sold. Whoever has a controlling interest? say 51%. What if a group representing 51% decide they want to sell? Am I forced to sell?  How does the Action 1 go up in value?  Only though the exchange of shares in this particular copy, or all copies of action 1? what is the market for action 1, or all 7.0 action 1s, or only  a fractionally owned 7.0 Action 1? If a privately held, wholly owned copy of Action 1goes to auction, can a group of investors buy it via shares? Who keep sthe physical artifact? Is it insured? What if I die, and I have multiple heirs, does that mean they each own a fraction of a fraction? Am I the first to make a "get a piece of the Action" joke? This whole idea sounds pretty farfetched for it to ever take off in s serious way beyond individually drawn up private equity agreements in advance of a sale or auction.

Since I've been accused of being a RallyRd cheerleader, I'll let Otis have this one.

https://help.withotis.com/en/collections/2284931-for-investors

[sfcityduck]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:10 PM, valiantman said:

With B), you've described every transaction that anyone has ever made in the history of the world.  

B) does nothing for a collector who would like to enhance their collection but can't afford 100% of the item they need.

 

A) provides an alternative to a world where only B) can occur.

For me, fractional ownership is not collecting and does not enhance a collection.  The fraction you own isn't even in the book at Rally Road, it is of a derivative.  Might as well buy stock in Disney and Time-Warner, then you will have a derivative fraction of every Marvel and DC comic they possess, likely more than any collector could ever own.

[sfcityduck]

On 8/30/2021 at 3:08 PM, valiantman said:

A lot of you comment as if there's only one investment option available.  "I'd rather buy stocks" or "I'd rather buy 100% of a comic I can hold" or "You'd be better off with an ETF", etc.

I have all of those already.  There are no limits to the options the world can allow, and anyone sticking with just one of type of investment is a tale of woe just waiting to happen.

The more I read, the more I think the disconnect here is that you are much closer to conflating "collecting" comics with "investing" in comics than I and others are.  I don't see any need to enable anyone to invest in a tangible asset they can't afford on their own. There's no problem now, and no need of a fix. Fractional ownership makes sense in the business world because it generates capital to get new companies off the ground.  No need for that with an old comic book.  I see nothing inherently noble about overcharging people for a tiny fraction of a luxury item they could never afford, and won't really own after they buy their "fractional share."  It is not about democratizing anything.  In my view, it is a scheme to take cash off of people who want to claim they own something they don't, because they are willing to overpay for the prospect of gaining boasting rights.  I also see it as a symbol of the evil influence of the speculator mentality in a collectibles market, and something that will feed the worst outcomes of speculation.

You made a comment up thread that you wanted to privatize the holdings of museums by selling fractional shares in major art works such as the Mona Lisa.  The reality is that the Louvre and all the art it contains is owned by the French Government and, derivatively, by the people of France.  Thus, there is already fractional ownership of everything in the Louvre, including the Mona Lisa.  To sell pieces of the Mona Lisa in the form of fractional shares would not only be entirely illogical, as the shares could only increase in value if the Mona Lisa was deaccessioned and sold, but would strip each and every French citizen of their fractional ownership of the Mona Lisa. It would take a national art treasure, and turn it into something far less savory owned by a much smaller group of people.  It's an abysmal idea, that solves a problem that really does not exist.  That you can't own a piece of the Mona Lisa is not a problem.  You (and me) can't own lots of things. Such is life.

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by sfcityduck

[valiantman]

 

@sfcityduck We have different views because your analysis is limited by the parts of the concept you don't like.  I recognize the parts that you don't like, and I see beyond them.

Such is life.

[sfcityduck]

Here's my thought exercise on this topic.  What would you rather pay $20 for: (1) a tiny tiny fractional share of an Action Comics 1 or (2) a mere photo of the Mile High Action Comics 1 owned by DA.  For me, the answer is a no brainer because I know which would satisfy the collector in me.

[MrBedrock]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:44 PM, valiantman said:

 

I recognize the parts that you don't like, and I see beyond them.

Such is life.

A real-life super-hero!

[MrBedrock]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:44 PM, sfcityduck said:

  What would you rather pay $20 for: (1) a tiny tiny fractional share of an Action Comics 1 or (2) a mere photo of the Mile High Action Comics 1 owned by DA. 

or (3) a petrified dog turd.