Combined investment will cause Golden Age (Collectors) to explode 3 3

[MrBedrock]

36 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I guess it's good I'm just predicting that this will happen to Golden Age keys when the system exists.  As far as "make it happen", since I clearly do not have the means to buy $100,000+ comics, I cannot (personally... for that extra redundancy) build a system that would cost millions to develop.

But you see, this is part of the discussion. It could be a great idea, but if none of the folks who want it to happen have the money to make it happen, and if none of the folks with the money to make it happen think it is worth making happen, then it won't happen.

Edited July 28, 2020 by MrBedrock

[valiantman]

6 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

41 minutes ago, valiantman said:

I guess it's good I'm just predicting that this will happen to Golden Age keys when the system exists.  As far as "make it happen", since I clearly do not have the means to buy $100,000+ comics, I cannot (personally... for that extra redundancy) build a system that would cost millions to develop.

But you see, this is part of the discussion. It could be a great idea, but if none of the folks who want it to happen have the money to make it happen, and if none of the folks with the money to make it happen think it is worth making happen, then it won't happen.

RallyRd has it "happening" except for the digital exchange.  Currently, they have CGC graded copies of Batman #1, Batman #3, Captain America #3, Superman #21, and some Silver Age keys.  If they develop a digital exchange (24/7 trading), it will be closer to the system "in concept" - but RallyRd was fundamentally about "the road" - exotic/vintage cars.  They have comics, cards, Rolex, first edition novels, sports memorabilia, all with 1,000 shares each.  It's not a perfect system, it's not backed by the industry pros, but it is something  which is more than just a concept.

[MrBedrock]

Here is another wrinkle to think about -

There very well could be an investment fund created for the sole purpose of trying to creating profit from collectibles for the benefit of the investors in that fund. Whatever fund that is created will require an initial investment of such a size that it alone could purchase whichever big dollar key you are envisioning. The talks that I was involved with were theorizing a fund with an initial value of between $20 million and $50 million which would solicit individual investments of $500,000 and up. I promise there will never be a legitimate investment fund created for collectibles with the purpose of soliciting initial investments of anything small on the scale that you are talking about (even $10,000 or less).

[MrBedrock]

4 minutes ago, valiantman said:

RallyRd has it "happening" except for the digital exchange.  Currently, they have CGC graded copies of Batman #1, Batman #3, Captain America #3, Superman #21, and some Silver Age keys.  If they develop a digital exchange (24/7 trading), it will be closer to the system "in concept" - but RallyRd was fundamentally about "the road" - exotic/vintage cars.  They have comics, cards, Rolex, first edition novels, sports memorabilia, all with 1,000 shares each.  It's not a perfect system, it's not backed by the industry pros, but it is something  which is more than just a concept.

Maybe I can get RallyRd to sell tiny pieces of Bedrock City. Or maybe it would be better for me if those folks with a $100 to invest in my store just came in to buy something.

[MrBedrock]

7 minutes ago, valiantman said:

RallyRd has it "happening" except for the digital exchange.  Currently, they have CGC graded copies of Batman #1, Batman #3, Captain America #3, Superman #21, and some Silver Age keys.  If they develop a digital exchange (24/7 trading), it will be closer to the system "in concept" - but RallyRd was fundamentally about "the road" - exotic/vintage cars.  They have comics, cards, Rolex, first edition novels, sports memorabilia, all with 1,000 shares each.  It's not a perfect system, it's not backed by the industry pros, but it is something  which is more than just a concept.

And good luck to them. Hopefully they are successful so I can sell them some more inventory.

[valiantman]

18 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Here is another wrinkle to think about -

There very well could be an investment fund created for the sole purpose of trying to creating profit from collectibles for the benefit of the investors in that fund. Whatever fund that is created will require an initial investment of such a size that it alone could purchase whichever big dollar key you are envisioning. The talks that I was involved with were theorizing a fund with an initial value of between $20 million and $50 million which would solicit individual investments of $500,000 and up. I promise there will never be a legitimate investment fund created for collectibles with the purpose of soliciting initial investments of anything small on the scale that you are talking about (even $10,000 or less).

That was absolutely the wrong concept for the wrong people.

 

Collectors of comics don't want someone else to do the collecting.  I may not be able to own Action Comics #1, but I don't want to invest in a fund that holds Action Comics #1 as 5%-10% of its assets.  I want to pick my books (shares) and my cost distributions.  Mutual funds only work AFTER you've established individual stocks with their own individual growths, histories, potentials.  Mutual funds are at least second, or third, and certainly not first.  

Wrong concept.

 

Collectors of comics who have $500,000 and up don't need anyone to tell them what they can buy... they can already buy it all.

Investors who have $500,000 and up who aren't comic collectors aren't going to suddenly pick comics.

Wrong people.

 

If you're going to build something, it needs to be for 500,000 comic book collectors who have $100, not for 100 non-collectors who have $500,000.

[MrBedrock]

1 minute ago, valiantman said:

That was absolutely the wrong concept for the wrong people.

 

Collectors of comics don't want someone else to do the collecting.  I may not be able to own Action Comics #1, but I don't want to invest in a fund that holds Action Comics #1 as 5%-10% of its assets.  I want to pick my books (shares) and my cost distributions.  Mutual funds only work AFTER you've established individual stocks with their own individual growths, histories, potentials.  Mutual funds are at least second, or third, and certainly not first.  

Wrong concept.

 

Collectors of comics who have $500,000 and up don't need anyone to tell them what they can buy... they can already buy it all.

Investors who have $500,000 and up who aren't comic collectors aren't going to suddenly pick comics.

Wrong people.

 

If you're going to build something, it needs to be for 500,000 comic book collectors who have $100, not for 100 non-collectors who have $500,000.

I'm not going to build that because it will never work.

[valiantman]

Just now, MrBedrock said:

I'm not going to build that because it will never work.

For comparison, the International Star Registry is probably the dumbest idea ever... and still kickin' after 41 years.  How old is your shop?

[PeterPark]

I posted this in comics general but I think it fits here too:

Investment potential, at these buy in amounts, is best realized in lower dollar books. When that is the case, though, just buy the book, or several. What high dollar book is going to multiply so many times that the investment is worth it at 1/1000? It almost seems more worthwhile just to own a share of Action 1, whatever that does for ya, then make $10 on a $50 investment in a couple years.

I know Overstreet is far from perfect, but look at the best 1 year investment books from 2019-2020:

Golden Age: Motion Picture Funnies Weekly 1 - 43%

Silver Age: Fantastic Four 5 - 25%

Bronze Age: Marvel Spotlight 5 - 60%

Copper Age: Albedo 2 - 87%

Modern Age: Tec 880 - 5900%...ignoring that one, Cap Marvel 17 2nd - 50%

So the best investments come bronze age and newer, and at much cheaper prices than Golden Age Mega Keys. 

Maybe after this, you'll be able to buy a share of the GOLDEN AGE 500 or something like that, to hedge against individual book losses and ride the tide of classic comics in general...

Speaking of, can you short shares? 

[MrBedrock]

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

For comparison, the International Star Registry is probably the dumbest idea ever... and still kickin' after 41 years.  How old is your shop?

My shop is not as old as the International Star Registry. You got me.

[N e r V]

The fact that PGX is still in business grading comics makes me believe in anything no matter how far fetched or bad an idea it  is....

Edited July 28, 2020 by N e r V

[sfcityduck]

54 minutes ago, PeterPark said:

 

I know Overstreet is far from perfect, but look at the best 1 year investment books from 2019-2020:

Golden Age: Motion Picture Funnies Weekly 1 - 43%

When was the MPFW sale?  I missed that one.  Details please.  Or was this just the OPG moving up a price without supporting data?

[valiantman]

24 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

For comparison, the International Star Registry is probably the dumbest idea ever... and still kickin' after 41 years.  How old is your shop?

My shop is not as old as the International Star Registry. You got me.

Selling people a piece of paper that says they own something they absolutely do not own, cannot possibly pretend to own, and have zero legal claim to the ownership (or profits from any sale), is the International Star Registry.  By most measures, that business is a success.

If that can work... legal ownership in shares of key Golden Age comic books is not only possible, it's basically a slam dunk.  Also figure out how to tap into that "GIVE IT AS A GIFT" concept from the Star Registry and convince people to buy a share of a high grade copy of the 1st appearance of a favorite character for someone/somekid they know and a giant source of other funds would open right up beyond comic collectors themselves.  They won't know or care if it's 0.01%, 0.001% or 1-ten-millionth of a percentage, as long as it's legal and real, it beats owning a star.

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

.Collectors of comics don't want someone else to do the collecting. 

And, yet, that is exactly what you are advocating because it is Rally, not you, that picks the comic and possesses it.

[sfcityduck]

2 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Selling people a piece of paper that says they own something they absolutely do not own, cannot possibly pretend to own, and have zero legal claim to the ownership (or profits from any sale), is the International Star Registry.  By most measures, that business is a success.

If that can work... legal ownership in shares of key Golden Age comic books is not only possible, it's basically a slam dunk. 

Dumbest analogy ever.  Star Registry is not claiming to be an "investment" by which you can gain money.  It's basically a greeting card type product.  The product is intended to be given as a gift to make others feel good.  Star Registry has no commonality with GA comic collecting.  I'm more than a bit shocked anyone would claim that.

 

[valiantman]

5 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

.Collectors of comics don't want someone else to do the collecting. 

And, yet, that is exactly what you are advocating because it is Rally, not you, that picks the comic and possesses it.

No - I do not want someone to put together $20,000,000 to $50,000,000 in comic books and offer me a share in that collection.

I want to choose whether I have 20% in Action Comics #1, 10% in Detective Comics #27, 5% in All-Star #8, and someone else will want to build a collection with 40% in Amazing Fantasy #15, 20% in Amazing Spider-Man #1, and some doofus will want to put $10 into Amazing Spider-Man #667 Dell'Otto variant, so even that would be an option for him.

Edited July 28, 2020 by valiantman

[valiantman]

Just now, sfcityduck said:

5 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Selling people a piece of paper that says they own something they absolutely do not own, cannot possibly pretend to own, and have zero legal claim to the ownership (or profits from any sale), is the International Star Registry.  By most measures, that business is a success.

If that can work... legal ownership in shares of key Golden Age comic books is not only possible, it's basically a slam dunk. 

Dumbest analogy ever.  Star Registry is not claiming to be an "investment" by which you can gain money.  It's basically a greeting card type product.  The product is intended to be given as a gift to make others feel good.  Star Registry has no commonality with GA comic collecting.  I'm more than a bit shocked anyone would claim that.

 You're saying that a product intended to be given as a gift to make others feel good with no possible monetary value is somehow superior to the exact same thing WITH the possibility of monetary value?

I've got two wallets here... one is empty, the other has some amount of cash.  They're the same price.  You're taking the empty one?  Brilliance!

[sfcityduck]

Just now, valiantman said:

No - I do not wants someone to put together $20,000,000 to $50,000,000 in comic books and offer me a share in that collection.

I want to choose whether I have 20% in Action Comics #1, 10% in Detective Comics #27, 5% in All-Star #8, and someone else will want to build a collection with 40% in Amazing Fantasy #15, 20% in Amazing Spider-Man #1, and some doofus will want to put $10 into Amazing Spider-Man #667 Dell'Otto variant, so even that would be an option for him.

All you get to choose is what fractional share you choose to purchase.  You don't get to choose what Action 1 you get a fractional share in.  You don't get to choose how long to hold it.  You don't get to choose the price at which it sells.  You have no personal attributes of ownership.  You are not a "collector," but a speculator under this fractional share scheme.  And, no one will be impressed by your 1/10th of 1% fractional share interest in an Action 1.  

[valiantman]

Just now, sfcityduck said:

All you get to choose is what fractional share you choose to purchase.  You don't get to choose what Action 1 you get a fractional share in.  You don't get to choose how long to hold it.  You don't get to choose the price at which it sells.  You have no personal attributes of ownership.  You are not a "collector," but a speculator under this fractional share scheme.  And, no one will be impressed by your 1/10th of 1% fractional share interest in an Action 1.  

You should use a Daffy Duck avatar.

[batman_fan]

Does anyone know anyone who has invested a significant amount of money into this?